Jedi Council Forums - WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars)

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Author	Topic: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars)
000 Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 12/27/05 9:47am Subject: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars) - Date Edited: 12/27/05 9:50am (2 edits total) Edited By: 000
	Now, we all know about the debate (which is pretty much done by now) about whether the Executor-class Star Destroyers/Dreadnaughts/Command Ships/whatevers were full 19 km shown in the movie or the comparatively dinky 8 km given in all the early EU (or the 12.8 km someone pulled out of their ass, but I doubt anyone supports that one). Like I said, it's officially been settled at 19 klicks, effectively ending the debat as far as most are concerned. There's some lasting damage, though, caused by the now-erroneous WEG stats; in addition to understating the lenght by over half, WEG gave it a much lower firepower figure, which made it more plausible when SSDs were blown up left and right in the novels. Now that the figure is upgraded to the proper one, it's difficult to see the Iron Fist being truly threatened by Solo's vessel when the former is nearly twenty times as large and outguns it by a couple thousand weapons. Some fans, prior to the LFL switchover to the 19 klick figure, speculated that there was another SSD class that in fact was 5 miles long, separate from the Ex's class, which was dubbed a Super-or, in keeping with Kuati naming conventions, a Superior-class SSD/SD/SD/CS/whatever. Fortunately or unfortunately, there was pretty much zero evidence for this class but wishful thinking. (continued following post)
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000 Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 12/27/05 9:51am Subject: RE: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars)
	Few people know, however, that along with the dramatically reduced length and firepower figures, WEG also gave the Ex a makeover, blowing up its bridge proportionally, dropping a couple of engines, and overall making structural changes that left its version of the vessel a similar but significantly different ship. Other sources, including the EGTV&V, copied this design. Beyond this, the X-Wing series of games featured an SSD model that was not only 8 miles long but also lacked the full 13 engines and had big structural differences.
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000 Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 12/27/05 9:55am Subject: RE: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars)
	This got me thinking: could this 8-km, redesigned SSD really be a distinct class, as half-jokingly speculated a year or so back? That would explain a bunch of things, as well as appease those who were pissed by the (admittedly correct) change to the 19 KM, upgunned stats. And then I hit on a perfect designation for it: the oft-speculated about but completely undescribed Mandator II-class Star Dreadnaught. All we know about it is that it was a really big, really powerful clone wars era Republic vessel which was smaller and less powerful than the Executor.
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Kudzu Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 12/27/05 9:58am Subject: RE: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars) - Date Edited: 12/27/05 10:03am (3 edits total) Edited By: Kudzu
	000 posted: This got me thinking: could this 8-km, redesigned SSD really be a distinct class, as half-jokingly speculated a year or so back? That would explain a bunch of things, as well as appease those who were pissed by the (admittedly correct) change to the 19 KM, upgunned stats. And then I hit on a perfect designation for it: the oft-speculated about but completely undescribed Mandator II-class Star Dreadnaught. All we know about it is that it was a really big, really powerful clone wars era Republic vessel which was smaller and less powerful than the Executor. And that it had a bulbous, overlarge reactor. EDIT - I'm starting to subscribe more and more to the idea of the Executor being an upscaled Super-class Star Destroyer, as the Executor-class Star Dreadnought (later changed to Executor-class Star Destroyer because everyone called it that anyway, as of BFC) and its type having a very limited production run (Lady Ex, Whelm, and Big Tim). -----signature----- Super Golden Ewok™ Recipient It should be the right of every American to go out and get wasted the day they're told that they're being sent to war. Ron Paul for U.S. President 2008
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000 Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 12/27/05 10:11am Subject: RE: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars)
	Well, it seems the damn boards don't want me to post the rest of what I had... to sum it up quick I said we should apply the old WEG stats to the Mandy II and then retroactively make SSDs like Iron Fist, etc. MSDIIs rather than ESDs. Would fix why the Remonda held it off, blah blah blah. Sorry about the breakage in posts, the boards are being a bitch to me at the moment. So: would it work, or am I reaching?
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Kudzu Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 12/27/05 10:18am Subject: RE: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars)
	On the boards - there's an invisible limit of four markup tags per paragraph (five or six on a good day for the server) which might explain your problem, but sometimes the server just likes to deny post acceptance to certain IP ranges or something. It's happened to me. shrug (We need a "shrug" emoticon, admins.) The thing is that the part about the bulbous ventral reactor doesn't fit, and those ships are also clearly called Star Destroyers and Super Star Destroyers. I could believe that they are a streamlining of the old Mandator-class design, but they don't work as being the same class of ship. -----signature----- Super Golden Ewok™ Recipient It should be the right of every American to go out and get wasted the day they're told that they're being sent to war. Ron Paul for U.S. President 2008
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President_Sharky Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 12/27/05 1:40pm Subject: RE: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars)
	Kudzu posted: I'm starting to subscribe more and more to the idea of the Executor being an upscaled Super-class Star Destroyer, as the Executor-class Star Dreadnought (later changed to Executor-class Star Destroyer because everyone called it that anyway, as of BFC) and its type having a very limited production run (Lady Ex, Whelm, and Big Tim). Quite obviously, the Lusankya is a 19 kilometer long Star Dreadnaught, as it is the Executor's twin sister-ship. The Terror from Rebel Assault II is clearly shown as a proper 19 km long Executor-class Star Dreadnaught, with 13 engines and a properly scaled bridge tower. This argument for the Iron Fist being 8 kilometers long is fallacious. The Brawl is supposed to be one of the first four Executor-class ships comissioned by the Empire, along with Executor, Lusankya, and a third one. All four ships are identical sisters, and thus the Brawl must be 19,000 meters. This also means that Razor's Kiss is 19 km long, because it is supposed to be identical to Iron Fist. The Knight Hammer from Darksaber is described by Admiral Pellaeon as, "Only the Executor was this large", meaning that it is also 19 kilometers long. The list of your so-called "Super-class Star Destroyers" grows thin. Add on that Super-class has been dismissed as a colloquialism, being that it is used for Executor-class and Eclipse-class ships, two very distinct classes, and you're theory is debunked. The only possible candidates for this reduced class are Guardian and Aggressor. -----signature----- Wipe out the trolls. All of them. Official Fleet Junkie
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Kudzu Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 12/27/05 1:55pm Subject: RE: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars) - Date Edited: 12/27/05 1:56pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Kudzu
	And the rather expected explosion of rebuke... Tell me, friend, how is it possible for a squadron of X-wings and a souped-up pirate ship to disable the Lusankya if it is 19,000 meters long and has 5,000 gun batteries or whatever Saxton's gratuitous number is? Is it not possible that the Executor was the larger version of the two? And the Iron Fist could be 8,000 meters - it is never stated, IIRC, and if it is, it would be as 8,000 meters, being of the Bantam era. Terror and Knight Hammer I will concede you; that has them, Executor herself, and Intimidator as being confirmed at 19,000 meters. However, Lusankya is explicitly - explicitly - stated to be 8,000 meters long, Iron Fist is ridiculous as a 19,000 meter ultimate 5,000-turbolasered dreadnought, Razor's Kiss is of the same make as said prior ship, and the SSDs from the X-wing games are clearly 8,000 meters in length and have eleven engines. -----signature----- Super Golden Ewok™ Recipient It should be the right of every American to go out and get wasted the day they're told that they're being sent to war. Ron Paul for U.S. President 2008
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President_Sharky Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 12/27/05 2:15pm Subject: RE: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars)
	Lusankya is also explicitly stated to be the identical sister ship of the Executor. The ship is the Executor, and was renamed only after the first ship became Lord Vader's personal command. Don't you understand? KDY and Fondor were commissioned to build the exact same ship. They had the same schematics to work from, and they achieved the same result. Lusankya is by definition 19,000 meters long. Now, as to the Battle of Thyferra. Don't forget that Lusankya had been sitting underground on Coruscant for some seven years! This means that it was without maintenance for an incredible amount of time, and when it launched, it fled immediately to Thyferra, where Isard set up her warlord fiefdom. Thyferra has no major shipyards, and certainly not enough resources to adequately maintain a massive battleship like Lusankya. By the time the Rogues mounted their assault, she was ready for the taking. And thanks for downplaying exactly how the Rogues managed to disable the warship. In fact, the Rogues had their X-Wings, several Tie-Bombers and Uglies, several A-Wing squadrons, two fully armed and operational Imperial II-class Star Destroyers (one with an elite crew and captain), an Alderaanian War-Frigate, and a large fleet of freighters armed with battlestation-scale proton torpedoes and concussion missiles. Meanwhile, the Lusankya had an inexperienced crew, an idiot for a captain, no fighters for support, and was without major maintenance for several years. -----signature----- Wipe out the trolls. All of them. Official Fleet Junkie
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Rogue_Follower Title: Manager: • Lit Registered: Nov '03	Date Posted: 12/27/05 2:36pm Subject: RE: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars) - Date Edited: 12/27/05 2:40pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Rogue_Follower
	I think the Guardian is 19 km too, since its picture shows it to be scaled more or less correctly with accompanying Star Destroyers (the bottom one appears to be some sort of Vicstar variant.) The Lucy is definitely 19 km, since (as previously stated) it was an identical sister to the Executor. Other non-Executor-class SSD variants include the one in the RotJ Arcade Game, one in the Sega 32x Star Wars Arcade (which only has 3 engines IIRC), and that one from Tales 21. We've also got the DE bunch to think about, as well as Jerec's Vengeance (though IMO the Vengeance wasn't mass-produced.)
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Kudzu Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 12/27/05 3:10pm Subject: RE: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars)
	President_Sharky posted: Lusankya is also explicitly stated to be the identical sister ship of the Executor. The ship is the Executor, and was renamed only after the first ship became Lord Vader's personal command. Don't you understand? KDY and Fondor were commissioned to build the exact same ship. They had the same schematics to work from, and they achieved the same result. Lusankya is by definition 19,000 meters long. And by every book in which it the ship has featured, whenever its length is mentioned, it is as 8,000 meters. You're welcome to your views, of course, as much as I'm welcome to mine. Why? Because, as tends to be the nature of conflicts between anything, there are proponents of both sides. -----signature----- Super Golden Ewok™ Recipient It should be the right of every American to go out and get wasted the day they're told that they're being sent to war. Ron Paul for U.S. President 2008
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Thrawn McEwok Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 12/27/05 4:57pm Subject: RE: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars) - Date Edited: 12/27/05 4:59pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Thrawn McEwok
	Well, the easiest answer is still IMHO to explain the movie evidence as impressionistic, discard the revised figures as flawed, and revert to the 5-mile length... No, seriously, I mean that. It solves all the problems... (I'd also like to explain away Eclipse and Eclipse II as Mandator and Mandator II, but that's just me being an Ewok ) Apart from that... well, we just have to say that short-range proton torpedoes are effective... Starfighters work, boys and girls... That's G-canon. - The Imperial Ewok -----signature----- A/T = OTP :===8[#]8===: Kyp/Jaina fans: stand up and be counted!
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Kudzu Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 12/27/05 5:00pm Subject: RE: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars) - Date Edited: 12/27/05 5:00pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Kudzu
	Uh-oh. -----signature----- Super Golden Ewok™ Recipient It should be the right of every American to go out and get wasted the day they're told that they're being sent to war. Ron Paul for U.S. President 2008
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Havac Title: Lit Mod of War Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 12/28/05 9:42pm Subject: RE: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars)
	A final end to the SSD wars? I do so love a good humor thread. -----signature----- "Is there a captain's hat involved in this?" "I . . . don't know what department I want. I need . . . pants."
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Master_Keralys Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 12/28/05 9:50pm Subject: RE: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars)
	Yeah. So do I. Which is why I wish this one had a title more suited to the non-humor I suspect will shortly erupt hereabouts... - Keralys -----signature----- God made man. Man rejected God. God became the man Jesus Christ, died and rose again to life, saving man from himself. The craziest story ever told. The truest.
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Havac Title: Lit Mod of War Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 12/28/05 10:01pm Subject: RE: WEG Ex a Mandy II? (and a final end to the SSD wars)
	KERALYS!!! I haven't seen you around for a while, man! Good to see you out and about. -----signature----- "Is there a captain's hat involved in this?" "I . . . don't know what department I want. I need . . . pants."
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