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Author	Topic: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)
barabel_humour Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 2/28/06 1:05pm Subject: RE: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)
	I wish I had more will-power!
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 2/28/06 1:25pm Subject: RE: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)
	Well, got a copy ordered on Amazon. Talking of which... UK-based fans, if you don't already know this: US edition is out according to Amazon Feb 28, can be got for a few quid, great. The UK edition is not due from Orbit until the start of May! Great eh? My advice is to either buy from Amazon or hit those stores that you know stock imports, such as, in my case London Forbidden Planet but I was out of luck! Unless you really want to wait another 3 months... JB -----signature----- Excellence: "You are the forum's Quick Ben." SW EU fans: John Ostrander needs your help! http://www.comix4sight.com
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Super_Battle_Droid Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 2/28/06 7:35pm Subject: RE: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)
	Excerpt (For those that don't have the novel yet, like myself.) http://www.starwars.com/eu/lit/novel/f20060228/index.html -----signature----- "Sir, over there, the Jedi is escaping." - Battle Droid "Not likely." - Super Battle Droid "Open this door and I'll buy you a planet!" - Viceroy Nute Gunray.
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Rogue_Follower Title: Manager: • Lit Registered: Nov '03	Date Posted: 2/28/06 8:04pm Subject: RE: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)
	And a non-Hyperspace Mando glossary.
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Quiet_Mandalorian Registered: Apr '05	Date Posted: 2/28/06 8:10pm Subject: RE: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)
	Kestrel2 posted: Am I the only one who keeps reading "Kal Skirata" as an anagram of "Karen Traviss", even tho' it isn't? Just me? Well alrighty then. I wouldn't, not after she went all R. Lee Ermey on me for wondering if Jinart was based on herself. -----signature----- Fey'la was right! Bring Asyr Sei'lar to justice!
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Rohniss Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 2/28/06 8:14pm Subject: RE: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed) - Date Edited: 2/28/06 8:16pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Rohniss
	well that may have to do with what Jinart is doing in this book.. atleast you didnt say Etain was based on herself.. Ordo would be at your door.. man I miss her.. she death threated me several times a day.. and Ryan.. pooor pooor ryan.. he was killed what 10 times..? Hey, could we get the word "Conehead" made canon.. it seems like it just belongs.. -----signature----- Rammer Jammer Yellowhammers, Give 'Em Hell, Alabama TF.N's resident Gun Nut Mejor morir a pie que vivir a rodillas.
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Master_Keralys Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 2/28/06 8:20pm Subject: RE: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)
	I think most all of us hereabouts miss her. I certainly do, and I interacted with her very little - but even just having her on the boards was an absolutely fantastic thing; I understand some of why she left, and that she's not coming back... but that makes me only the sadder, to know that there's nothing we could do either way to influence it. - Keralys -----signature----- God made man. Man rejected God. God became the man Jesus Christ, died and rose again to life, saving man from himself. The craziest story ever told. The truest.
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 2/28/06 9:01pm Subject: RE: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)
	Republic Commando: Triple Zero By. Charles Phipps 'Republic Commando: Triple Zero' is an interesting book and probably ranks up with 'Labyrinth of Evil' and 'Revenge of the Sith' the novelization for the best of the books of the Prequel Era and one of the greater books of the EU saga. This is quite the accomplishment with no Skywalkers or even Rogue Squadron operatives to be seen. The closest we come is a Fett cameo. Better than Medstar, the Republic Commando books are about the "fighting man's perspective" on the Clone Wars and specifically that of the clones that most Star Wars fans dismiss as the slaves of Darth Sidious. RC: Hard Contact and other works have disabused many fans of the notion that tghe future stormtroopers are more equivalent to orcs than people and Triple Zero continues that trend. Ms. Traviss has some fairly major hurdles to overcome when writing the clones. They have identical backgrounds (largely), they live to fight (literally), and are of a dubious position both legally and socially. Instead of shying away from this, she embraces the violence and tragedy of their lives whole heartedly. No clones suffer an existentialist dilemna here like the lamented Nate aka Jangotat whom realize that his life is pointless before trying to do something right for himself. Nor is this the case of Spar where he turns violently on his former masters (though this reader would love to see Ms. Traviss tackle a clone commando that recognizes the utter injustice that has been done to him). The clones here are the fighting ranks of the Grand Army, the loyalists whom follow the path of the Light Brigade Chargers. They go forth to fight and die for arguably a cause and group that they should bear no loyalty for but do because it is whom they have been made to be. Triple Zero is a story that is decidedly in the war genre and the insanity around the troopers plays a major part in the beginning (and indeed most) of the book. The tense emotions, the fear for ones life, the desire to be with loved ones, and the criticalness of timing along with decisions that mean the difference between life and death for a set of troopers are fairly universal in application. It doesn't matter that Fi is a clone when he thinks about his kill count and the damage he's done to the Seperatists while he's waiting to likely die from oxygen deprivation. Any soldier could be sitting in the foxhole equivalent going over what exactly he'd accomplished in his short life. Karen Traviss captures the hectic nature of live combat well. Readers weary of the politics and maneuverings of Darth Sidious and the Jedi will find this book a splash of cold water. The Clone Wars may have been rigged by politicians but the crusty Mandalorian Skirata might argue that's always the case and certainly doesn't mean anything less on the field. The book is practically utterly void of politics. There is simply the enemy that's trying to kill you and you whom have to kill him in order to survive. While it might be Alto Stratus is behind them and they're all Jabiim terrorists on Coruscant or disgruntled spice miners from Naboo's moon, it largely doesn't matter what their motivations are other than they're seperatists. It's simply that they're terrorists and theyre involved in blowing things up. Its strange that by focusing on the general, one can bring the whole to life but it is the case here. It's almost as if the locations aren't really 'real' to the protagionists. Even Coruscant is one dominated by its functionality rather than its size. There's no sense of wonder, its a city with a lot of buildings thats the capital. As characters go, Karen does an amiable job of differentiating the clones. The problem isn't that they all look alike but more that they're all soldiers really and none of them can be exactly called timid. Darman is the most well developed of the clones with his romance of Etain, something performed more out of recognition of their mutual short life expectenacies than genuine things in common but...war does that. Fi remains my favorite of the clones though for reasons that amount to his simply being the clone most likely to fit into the cast of "Red vs. Blue" (since Halo's Spartans could be likened to the Clone Troopers) for silliness and bizarrity in a serious situation. The Null Troopers are another addition to the cast of the clones as they're supposed to be the baddest of the bad. However, aside from laying out an ARC trooper (something I'm not sure ANYONE should do) they are surprisingly amongst the most human of them. I'm especially fond of Ordo despite it all though. He seems to have the most fully 'realized' personality, save Darman and a distinct feeling of annoyance with everything in the world up until he meets Besanny. The intensity sets him apart from his fellow clones. I almost wish that Karen had shown the Nulls being raised by Sergeant Skirata more than her early scenes with him storytelling. The theme of child soldiers could have fleshed them out more. The non Jedi clones are a bit of a mixed bag with some amazingly well realized characters and some character choices I don't really appreciate (though this is probably just my Jediphilia). Kal Skirata is the most well realized of all of Karen Traviss' characters save perhaps Etain I believe. Its an interesting concept that's behind him, he seems to be basically born from "What would Jango's really crusty old uncle be like?" The 'old soldier' theme goes well with him and the only thing he seemed to be missing was a bugle and a dog. His relationship with the Nulls, effectively substituting them for his lost children, is a surprisingly poignant one even as Karen doesn't shy away from the fact that Kal Skirata could just as easily be a villain in the right circumstances. While immensely likeable and paternal, she doesn't shy away from the fact that Kal is a brutal killer and that a lifetime of violence has left deep scars on him and possibly even an inner darkness. Besanny Wennen seems to exist to be a love interest more than an actual character but her statement on the treatment of clones is one of the most memorable scenes in the book. Etain, the Reluctant Jedi, makes her sequel appearence here as a fairly battle hardened veteran but still possessed of amusing amounts of naitivity (like why the clones stare at her chest first). Her relationship with Darman is childish in its simple love but its appropriate for both characters. If I have one complaint though, its that Karen seems to not handle the Jedi very well. It may be just my opinion of how they operate though because I know many would agree with her interpretation of the Old Order. Etain seems to fall into the trap I see with many Prequel depictions that they misinterpret the dogma for the truth. That disturbing acts done without anger are somehow "right" is an action I can't even imagine a padawan mistaking. I have a high respect for the Jedi though and simply find it disconcerting when we don't see their 'wisdom' in action. To me, a Jedi without the Force is still a Jedi if he's the gentlest and noblest character in the story but powers seem to make the Jedi in most fan's opinion. Etain still is a font of sympathy for the clone's plight and I also liked the depiction of Baradan Jusik whom is another likeable and decent Jedi. We need more "nobility is the rule, not the exception" Jedi. Unfortunately, the pitilessness of General Zey makes the Jedi seem more like military high command (not the most enlightened of group to begin with) than the order of spiritualists. I swear though that I feel the "I wish I knew my parents!" meme of the Jedi is getting tired. For those of us with intimate acquaintance with adoption and perhaps a little 'disgust' with certain biological parents out there, the fact that they don't acknowledge the Order as Family is a bit troubling. The bond between Jedi should be every bit as deep as the Mandalorians is portrayed his is a relatively small complaint though. This is a book about clones not Jedi. The choice of Etain to have a family though at the expense of her career as a Jedi is one that leaves a better taste in my mouth than similiar choices by Anakin Skywalker and Quinlan Vos, its a sacrifice that isn't selfish but profoundly human. The antagonists in the story are surprisingly more bureaucracy and the nature of 'terrorist hunting' rather than the Seperatists. The clones are extraordinarily good at killing and open combat but the problem in this case is finding the enemy rather than eliminating him. There's a humorous "Pulp Fiction" like scene where the clones end up killing people they really shouldn't have because of the similarity of 'suspicious behavior' between organized crime and terrorism. The character of Walon Vau is, I think, supposed to be an example of an evil character on the side of the 'heroes' but given that (again in the manner of the thoroughly quotable Kal Skirata)...with characters as hard as these its hard to really imagine him being that much worse. While he lacks the sympathy of Skirata and is a great deal more passionless, dead is dead no matter how you were brought to that state. Strangely, Triple Zero makes some statements about the Clone Wars to me that may not have been intentional to the author. For one, the main thing that occurred to me when looking over battles with the Jedi and their clone troopers was not...as some Star Wars have postulated that the Jedi were horrible commanders (though the clones often were more experienced) or the Jedi were using them. Actually, what struck me was the apparent utter cowardice of the Republic and its citizens. While there are cases here and there of Republic officers and intelligence operatives plus people fighting for the Republic, all of them were either far from the front lines or motivated by some self serving aspect like deals made with the Republic for colonist removal. Say what you will about the Jedi but they were the only people I saw willing to go into battle directly with the clones at their side and fighting for all the world's in the Republic. Some unintentional (?) parrallels also formed between the Jedi and clones as both were essentially raised from birth to be fighters for a group that's arguably utterly unworthy of their allegiance. While I'm ashamed to say Metal Gear Solid comes to mind before '47 Samurai', its an interesting realization. Triple Zero is an extraordinarily "dense" book for a paperback really as if Karen Traviss were trying to stuff the entire experience of the Clone Wars into one novel from all angles and I'm extremely grateful for this. At 418 pages, its not the 'Goblet of Fire' but its worth the 7.50 plus tax I paid for it as even the text is packed with dozens of 'mini-adventures' in the context of the greater storyline. I honestly have the weirdest feeling it would have made a very good micro-cartoon, comic, or video game plot with its countless small asides. This gives a somewhat more satisfying feel than the usual "Luke Skywalker broods, Luke meets villain, Luke defeats villain" plots of most books. However, the book did not take us up to "Revenge of the Sith" and frankly this series is NOT complete until we arrive at Order 66 and the transformation of the Republic to the Empire. I have no illusions that any of the clone troopers would normally hesitate to kill their commanders (the relationship between the Jedi and the clones is displayed as not terribly close usually and they are a bloody bunch) but Republic Commando's Omega Squadron may be one of the few cases otherwise given Etain has become part of the family....and even then they may have to do something unconsciousnable. A heartily recommended work and one that I hope she will eventually do a sequel for. 9.0/10
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Rogue_Follower Title: Manager: • Lit Registered: Nov '03	Date Posted: 2/28/06 9:29pm Subject: RE: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)
	[i]>>>While I'm ashamed to say Metal Gear Solid comes to mind before '47 Samurai', its an interesting realization.
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Commander5052 Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 3/1/06 5:16am Subject: RE: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)
	Charlemagne19 posted: Republic Commando: Triple Zero Etain, the Reluctant Jedi, makes her sequel appearence here as a fairly battle hardened veteran but still possessed of amusing amounts of naitivity (like why the clones stare at her chest first). Oy vey. Well, Karen did say her boys weren't naive young idealists before the release. -----signature----- Honored recepient of Thrawn McEwok's Bronze Thranta™ A Liberal and proud of it "Politics is simply the continuation of war by other means." --Mandalore the Ultimate
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 3/1/06 6:10am Subject: RE: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)
	Yeah and since Karen gave me the business over e-mail, yes it was intentional that the civilians don't care about the war.
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Kestrel2 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 3/1/06 9:57am Subject: RE: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)
	Wasn't that pretty much the point of producing an army of clones-- the public reason, barring any of Palpatine's hidden motives-- so that the public wouldn't have to care about the war? Their sons, daughters, siblings, parents and loved ones wouldn't be dying for the Republic. The suffering didn't touch the civilians and they could just go about their lives, confident that even in wartime, their government was insulating them. Maybe their taxes went up a tick is all. But what's money when it's essentially just two teams of drones taking each other out? I dunno, I just always assumed this. I did like having the ugly truth spelled out, but it wasn't any huge revelation to me.
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JediFan421 Registered: Feb '06	Date Posted: 3/1/06 2:01pm Subject: RE: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)
	I actually got the book from the NY-Comic Con on Saturday so now i'm past 110 pages. Okay first here's alittle known fact (mostly for newbies) but did you know both covers of Hard Contact and Triple Zero are of early to late concept art drawings of Delta Squad? Now here are some spoilers. For newcomers, expect no major players appearing in this novel from the films. A Wookie will appear in this book. Also for newcomers, Ordo and Mereel are Mandalorian names from the famous Canderous Ordo from KOTOR I & II and Jaster Mereel, Jango Fett's mentor. -----signature----- "JediFan421, why aren't you at your post?" "I lied to you Luke, from a certain point of you." Non-Official Member of DB516, Long Island FanForce! "Whysa people hatesa Ja-Ja Binks so much?" Long Island, Combining Hoth and Tatooine into One
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 3/1/06 3:43pm Subject: RE: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)
	Kestrel2 posted: Wasn't that pretty much the point of producing an army of clones-- the public reason, barring any of Palpatine's hidden motives-- so that the public wouldn't have to care about the war? Their sons, daughters, siblings, parents and loved ones wouldn't be dying for the Republic. The suffering didn't touch the civilians and they could just go about their lives, confident that even in wartime, their government was insulating them. Maybe their taxes went up a tick is all. But what's money when it's essentially just two teams of drones taking each other out? I dunno, I just always assumed this. I did like having the ugly truth spelled out, but it wasn't any huge revelation to me. Actually, I think it was more as a trap for the Jedi. The 'problem' is that really most people don't necessarily oppose war. Certainly, by the Empire's rise Palpatine had no small group of people gung ho about killing people (mostly aliens) for his cause. Rom Mohc and others in the Army and people like Pellaeon. The clones were just a small part of that. ...or at least I thought they were.
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razzy1319 Registered: Jun '04	Date Posted: 3/1/06 4:20pm Subject: RE: The Official Republic Commando: Triple Zero Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)
	i thru a quarter of the book at the moment and i like the fact that its insinuating that while omega might not be able to answer order 66, delta might... now that would be a good game... delta vs omega, delta vs jedi. -----signature----- In Space No One Can Hear Your Scream, Except For The BattleCry Of A Galactic Marine -Fictional BattleCry My Kind Weren't Made To Kneel -Fictional Clone Trooper Worst Admin Ever - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:WhiteBoy/Kuralyov
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