Paladin307 posted:Uhh everyone realizes that the Spartans lost that battle, right? How exactly does that help your argument? A much larger force defeated a much smaller force. The clones actually WIN the war.
Paladin307 posted:The clones actually WIN the war.
LtNOWIS posted:Paladin307 posted:The clones actually WIN the war. That's not exactly true. The droids layed down their arms.
QuentinGeorge posted:Good god, people aren't using Thermopylae as an example, are they? It's irrelevant for a few reasons: 1) Herodotus greatly exaggerated the strength of the Persians. (i.e., there weren't a million of them) 2) The Persians were invading Greece, not the other way around, whereas most of the Clone Wars engagements was the Republic invading CIS space. 3) The CIS can create new battle droids in what seems like (judging from AOTC) hours, whereas the Persians didn't have that capability with their own soldiers. The absurd lengths to which people are willing to go to defend this figure is admirable, but not logical.
Shadowfeed posted:"The forces on our borders and outlying colonial assets are admittedly facing greater numbers, but with our inexhaustible supply of troops and materiel from the Neimoidian coffer-worlds, Techno Union home foundaries and mighty guild-worlds, its only a matter of time before the republic is overwhelmed."
NEGC posted:San Hill, the arrogant chairman of the InterGalactic Banking Clan, had worked to make his homeworld of Munnilinst an unassailable castle keep. The Republic countered with sheer numbers, sending hundreds of assault ships, each one groaning from the weight of troopers and war machines. Many vessels reached the surface only as smoldering hulks; others found themselves cut off from their drop zones, forced to make landings behind enemy lines.
Rogue_Follower posted:Here's the part that people will get angry over: apparently, there are only hundreds of millions of droids.
Rogue_Follower posted:To her credit, Ms. Traviss makes it sound plausible, especially when it is pointed out that if the CIS had quadrillions of droids, then why didn't they use them in the very beginning to take Coruscant?
Havac posted:Lord_Hydronium posted:dp4m posted:The Battle of Thermopylae is probably the best example of how 3,000,000 could function as a number, at least until the end of the Clone Wars when Grievous began to get desperate... Why do I even bother? Does the fact that Thermopylae is a million times smaller than the odds we need here mean nothing? Could the Spartans have realistically held off a trillion Persians? Yes . . . because 1 trillion Persians are not all going to be able to fight them at the same time. You're suggesting that a billion droids or whatever your number is can all take on one clone trooper at once. Real life doesn't work that way; at some point the law of diminishing returns takes over. I can't beat Jackie Chan in a fight. If there were one billion of me, only what, four of me maybe would be able to fight him at a time without just getting in each other's way. Jackie Chan can take four of me, I'm sure. To inject more realism, most of the billion is scattered around the planet doing other things, and Jackie has the ability to run away from me. Now, it's clearly a silly example, but are you seeing that your situation isn't as cut-and-dried as you present it?
Lord_Hydronium posted:dp4m posted:The Battle of Thermopylae is probably the best example of how 3,000,000 could function as a number, at least until the end of the Clone Wars when Grievous began to get desperate... Why do I even bother? Does the fact that Thermopylae is a million times smaller than the odds we need here mean nothing? Could the Spartans have realistically held off a trillion Persians?
dp4m posted:The Battle of Thermopylae is probably the best example of how 3,000,000 could function as a number, at least until the end of the Clone Wars when Grievous began to get desperate...
MercenaryAce posted:1) Prue plain propanganda. Look at the source man, CIS shadow feed.
Valin__Kenobi posted:Havac posted:Yes . . . because 1 trillion Persians are not all going to be able to fight them at the same time. You're suggesting that a billion droids or whatever your number is can all take on one clone trooper at once. Real life doesn't work that way; at some point the law of diminishing returns takes over. I can't beat Jackie Chan in a fight. If there were one billion of me, only what, four of me maybe would be able to fight him at a time without just getting in each other's way. Jackie Chan can take four of me, I'm sure. To inject more realism, most of the billion is scattered around the planet doing other things, and Jackie has the ability to run away from me. Now, it's clearly a silly example, but are you seeing that your situation isn't as cut-and-dried as you present it? I think Havac's point bears repeating on this page. Hydro, even assuming the overall war has 3 million clones versus 100 uber-zillion droids (which I don't accept BTW, since both seem equally silly extremes and there's a fair amount of wiggle room for each)--they're not necessarily going to face those odds in each theater. Note that most of the pitched battles we've seen so far have been roughly even matches in terms of numbers. Just because droids outnumber clones in the galaxy, doesn't mean there'll be 3 billion of them per clone in every engagement. Short of a space bombardment or commando mission, I can think of no plausible situation in which a small number of clones would need to fight your trillion droids at once--it's not logistically possible and is a pretty absurd hypothetical.
Havac posted:Yes . . . because 1 trillion Persians are not all going to be able to fight them at the same time. You're suggesting that a billion droids or whatever your number is can all take on one clone trooper at once. Real life doesn't work that way; at some point the law of diminishing returns takes over. I can't beat Jackie Chan in a fight. If there were one billion of me, only what, four of me maybe would be able to fight him at a time without just getting in each other's way. Jackie Chan can take four of me, I'm sure. To inject more realism, most of the billion is scattered around the planet doing other things, and Jackie has the ability to run away from me. Now, it's clearly a silly example, but are you seeing that your situation isn't as cut-and-dried as you present it?
Lord_Hydronium posted: Let me get this straight: Shadowfeed would want to make their opposition seem larger?
Lord_Hydronium posted: OK, so let's say only a thousand droids can fight at any one time. So those thousand droids go up against the clones and get whooped. Then a thousand more are sent in, and they lose too. Then a thousand more. And so on. But each new detachment sent into the breach is fresh into combat, while the defenders are still the same people, each successive engagement wearing them down bit by bit. And this happens about a million times. So do the defenders not get worn down, then? Are they just that super-awesome that they can fight as many battles as they want in succession and it will never affect them? Does attrition never come into the picture?
Me posted:The whole point of bringing up Thermopylae isnt about 4000 greeks vs 250000 persians, it was about the fact that it was thought to be impossible that such a stand would somehow end up to be a victory whether or not the warriors who sacrifice their lives would be lost and that the persians would come as fast and hard as their futuristic counterparts. Just a nice little fact, the King's personal choice of troops, The Immortals, had a number of 10000 and if some died would be replaced immediately to give the sense of their "immortality" but to spartans who arent that gullible the immortals represented the fact that they were fighting an force that was as infinite as the droid army. Was just reading the the clone wars article over at Wookiee and noticed that there were probably just 3-4 major battles during the first year and most of the action during that time was: 1. CIS looking for superweapons 2. Jedi and Special Forces destroying Superweapons 3. A strategic shot at the major Sep Financier 4. If Hypori is indeed the last battle of the first year, then its apt that it might be the biggest of the major battles since Greevy finally shows his gameface. EDIT: Said it before and will say until everybody knows, By calculations done by those who deem the movies as pure fact, the Droid Foundries of Geonosis should have pumped droids fast enough to geometrically outnumber the 120,000 clones in a matter of hours. Which based on the logic of those against the 3M clones, Geonosis should have been a Rep Loss.
razzy1319 posted:It called Playing with people sympathies which was used during WW2 newsreels...
razzy1319 posted:Funny how Palpy might have used the same thing using the quintillion numbers
razzy1319 posted:Fact is the troops dont keep on dying, they prevail against those thousand and later on kill ten thousand more, and prevail and kill a hundred thousand more. they get better and better as for droids you partially limited with B1 and B2s.
razzy1319 posted:It isnt wholly about logic.
razzy1319 posted:EDIT: Said it before and will say until everybody knows, By calculations done by those who deem the movies as pure fact, the Droid Foundries of Geonosis should have pumped droids fast enough to geometrically outnumber the 120,000 clones in a matter of hours. Which based on the logic of those against the 3M clones, Geonosis should have been a Rep Loss.