Author Topic: Osvald Teshik......framed?
Charlemagne19  26812 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 9/28/06 4:45pm Subject: RE: Osvald Teshik......framed?
Thanks Halagad.

Our depiction is now thus...

"Osvald Teshik was a reasonably amiable sort of fellow from the perspective of the Empire and not guilty of any excessive activities by the standards of the Empire. However, the New Republic was still able to dredge up plenty of evidence that they could him guilty of because the very nature of an Imperial trial is going to make Imperial orders illegal."

Sort of like trying Alexander the great for "Unwarranted Aggression."

 

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Mariu  388 posts
Registered: Sep '06
23531_Royal Guard
Date Posted: 9/28/06 5:29pm Subject: RE: Osvald Teshik......framed? - Date Edited: 9/28/06 5:32pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Mariu
Halagad_Ventor posted:


Right and wrong is important to talk about and define, but difficult, even impossible or nonsensical, to do in a way that is meaningful and not merely practical. Teshik's story was meant to be an example of this. Insight into that break down of meaning is arguably the source of Teshik's "insane" laughter.

Take care,
Abel


Thank you for your illuminating post! The trial of Teshik, I think, would bear out the tragic nature of a galactic civil war, when distinctions between good and bad can become precarious if not merely political, not to mention after the conflict the victors will have live with the vanquished.

A few more question marks about Teshik's history of survival and demise: despite being a cyborg and having failed a mission (which means political disgrace), Teshik somehow has managed to hold on to his high rank. Either he is competent to the point of being indispensable, or something else is going on. On the NR side of matters, the xenophobic Grant has defected and traded Imperial secrets for his own security. Couldn't Teshik have done the same and bargained for a milder treatment after his capture? That he has just gone to his death makes him a less calculating character than Grant. In light of this and his last stand at Endor even after being abandoned by others, more soldier's honor than mere Imperial loyalty?

 

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Havac  14250 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 9/28/06 5:59pm Subject: RE: Osvald Teshik......framed? - Date Edited: 9/28/06 6:09pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Havac
Teshik was, I believe, one of the genuinely competent GAs, along with Thrawn, Takel, and a few others.

I think part of the point was that he was less calculating than Grant. He wasn't concerned with preserving his life -- it was a soldier's honor thing going on. He suddenly rediscovered life, and I think he was happy to go out on that note. I don't think it really bothered him. To bargain, to grovel, to scrabble for a life of imprisonment, constraint, idleness -- he'd rather have the release of death.

 

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Charlemagne19  26812 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 9/28/06 6:02pm Subject: RE: Osvald Teshik......framed?
Havac posted:
Teshik was, I believe, one of the genuinely competent GAs, along with Thrawn, Grant, and a few others.

I think part of the point was that he was less calculating than Grant. He wasn't concerned with preserving his life -- it was a soldier's honor thing going on. He suddenly rediscovered life, and I think he was happy to go out on that note. I don't think it really bothered him. To bargain, to grovel, to scrabble for a life of imprisonment, constraint, idleness -- he'd rather have the release of death.


Let's be frank, his "life" wasn't all that it was cracked up to be at that point either.

 

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Mariu  388 posts
Registered: Sep '06
23531_Royal Guard
Date Posted: 9/28/06 6:10pm Subject: RE: Osvald Teshik......framed?
Good point, and thank you. I think Teshik's competence is also attested by his post as the commander of the Core forces--one always assigns the best to protect the most important.

Abel has made a point of carving a relief of the good, but unvindicated, Imperial from Teshik. Now going over the gallery of GAs in my mind once again, I find them a cross-section of the Empire: the brilliant villains, the intriguants, the psychotics, the depraved ones, the political cronies, etc. That's not quite the same picture TZ has presented back in T3 when the Grand Admiralty is supposed to be just a cadre of geniuses, and certainly more humanized in a way...

 

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Havac  14250 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 9/28/06 6:23pm Subject: RE: Osvald Teshik......framed?
Well, Thrawn, Zaarin, Teshik, and Takel were apparently the genius core, but Il-Raz was the only genuine hack.

 

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GrandAdmiralJello  59900 posts
Title: Emperor
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Registered: Nov '00
49389_NY Yankees
Date Posted: 9/29/06 3:20pm Subject: RE: Osvald Teshik......framed?
*itches*

The cross-section idea you've described is something I'm working on in a particular fictional piece I'm doing. It'll be published online somewhere eventually.

As for the Grant issue--I think you're all missing something. Teshik was a PoW, whereas Grant could negotiate from a position of strength. Remember, he was crusin' the Pentastar Alignment before his defection.

Teshik had no bargaining position at all. He was the ideal scapegoat.

 

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Mariu  388 posts
Registered: Sep '06
23531_Royal Guard
Date Posted: 9/29/06 3:57pm Subject: RE: Osvald Teshik......framed?
No, I don't think Teshik's bargaining position is as strong as Grant's--the former certain couldn't have gotten a comfortable retirement--but he still might have found a way out of capital punishment. There is a mean between the firing squad and the beach resort.

I wish that Mr. Pena would some day elaborate the Teshik plot into a short story or a novella...

 

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Charlemagne19  26812 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 9/29/06 5:33pm Subject: RE: Osvald Teshik......framed?
What I'd love to see from Halagad Ventor next is something that I doubt there'd be much demand for. A examination of the politics of the New Republic and how their opinions shifted from their initial position.

If we were there to record Osvald Teshik's trial, I think that "crimes against sapients" would probably include things like his unprovoked military assault on Hapes, putting down the rebellions on planets with no desire to be a part of the Empire, and in general things that cant really be defended against because its making a crime out of being an Imperial.

It's like criminalizing the Imperialism of Africa. Any British officer on trial would stare at you blankly even if he's guilty as sin.

 

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Halagad_Ventor  1278 posts
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41556_Halagad Ventor
Date Posted: 9/30/06 7:46pm Subject: RE: Osvald Teshik......framed?
Charlemagne19 posted:
Thanks Halagad.

Our depiction is now thus...

"Osvald Teshik was a reasonably amiable sort of fellow from the perspective of the Empire and not guilty of any excessive activities by the standards of the Empire. However, the New Republic was still able to dredge up plenty of evidence that they could him guilty of because the very nature of an Imperial trial is going to make Imperial orders illegal."

Sort of like trying Alexander the great for "Unwarranted Aggression."
Unless I'm cornered, I prefer not to give definitive status to any one interpretation. As a wise man once said, uncertainty is part of the character's design.

Take care,
Abel

 

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Charlemagne19  26812 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 9/30/06 7:49pm Subject: RE: Osvald Teshik......framed?
Touche.

Care to comment in the Wanted by Cracken thread?

 

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GrandAdmiralJello  59900 posts
Title: Emperor
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49389_NY Yankees
Date Posted: 9/30/06 7:52pm Subject: RE: Osvald Teshik......framed?
Halagad_Ventor posted:
Charlemagne19 posted:
Thanks Halagad.

Our depiction is now thus...

"Osvald Teshik was a reasonably amiable sort of fellow from the perspective of the Empire and not guilty of any excessive activities by the standards of the Empire. However, the New Republic was still able to dredge up plenty of evidence that they could him guilty of because the very nature of an Imperial trial is going to make Imperial orders illegal."

Sort of like trying Alexander the great for "Unwarranted Aggression."
Unless I'm cornered, I prefer not to give definitive status to any one interpretation. As a wise man once said, uncertainty is part of the character's design.

Take care,
Abel


So can we just corner you, then?

tongue

 

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Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento; hæ tibi erunt artes;
pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos - Virgil
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Havac  14250 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 9/30/06 8:01pm Subject: RE: Osvald Teshik......framed?
I'll go in right, you go left.

 

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Charlemagne19  26812 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 9/30/06 8:06pm Subject: RE: Osvald Teshik......framed?
*preps interrogator droid*

His resistance to the mind probe is considerable...

We'll have to use a double dose.

 

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GrandAdmiralJello  59900 posts
Title: Emperor
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49389_NY Yankees
Date Posted: 9/30/06 8:09pm Subject: RE: Osvald Teshik......framed?
I have it covered. The Prophet will not deny Waru of Waru.

You see! This Church of Waru stuff does help.

 

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Vates Jυλιαδις
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Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento; hæ tibi erunt artes;
pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos - Virgil
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