Jedi Council Forums - NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan

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Author	Topic: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan
Senator_Cilghal Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 11/1/06 9:03am Subject: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan - Date Edited: 11/1/06 9:36am (1 edits total) Edited By: Senator_Cilghal
	Remember the Killik Sith Lord from Alsakan in Gamer? I think we can fit him into canon now. Dark Nest claims the "Celestials" built Centerpoint and the Maw; the same creations are attributed to the Architects in NEC; the Rakata built Centerpoint acc to NEGA; furthermore, acc to NEGA, Centerpoint and the Maw were constructed during the time of the Infinite Empire, circa 30000 BBY. Conclusion: Architects=Celestials=Rakata now, we know the Killiks were among the races in contact with the Celestials 30,000 BBY and at some point around then (not necessarily at that exact date, hence the word "circa"), the Celestials exiled them from Alderaan and Alsakan to the Unknown Regions. We know the original Sith had contact with the Rakata from 27,710 BBY according to Abel Pena. The Celsetials forced the Killiks off Alsakan acc. to NEGA. Acc to Gamer, the Killiks inhabited Alsakan before it was settled by humans, and were displaced forcefully by humans from the world. I believe the Celstials were replacing the Killiks on Alsakan with human slaves. The Killik Sith is said to have fled persecution on Alsakan long before humans settled there, but later said to have fled the humans supplanting his species. With Alderaan, the case is different, as when humans settle Alderaan, they believe the Killiks an extinct race. I propose that after the Celestials/Rakata exiled the Killiks from Alsakan, they resettled the planet with human slaves. Gamer also says that on the eve of the Killik/human transition on Alsakan, a Killik Sith Lord was exiled from Alsakan and fled to Sarafur in the then-Unknown Regions, in what became Moddell Sector. At last, we can make some sense of this, as through the Rakata the Killiks and Sith could have been in contact in pre-Republic times. I thus propose the following tenative, hypothetical timeline and events: c. 30,000 BBY The Rakata/Celestials contact the Killiks. The Killiks build the Castle Lands on Alderaan. The Killiks colonize Alsakan, possibly being brought their by the Rakata. 27,710 BBY The Rakata contact the Sith, bringing them into the galactic community somewhat. Sith'ari Adas sacrifices himself to prevent the Rakata from conquering Korriban, but after his death the planet is plunged into civil war. Two Sith fight for the title of Sith'ari: the loser flees Korriban and seeks refuge on Alsakan, where he becomes a Joiner. After his death, an insane Killik on Alsakan takes on his identity as a Sith'ari. The Killik Sith Lord, with the identity of a selfish Sith, is abnormally individualistic for a Killik, and goes to Sarafur. There, he subjugates the insectoid Sarafurians as a hive with himself as its leader. However, he returns to Alsakan often for unknown reasons, perhaps trying to corrupt the Killiks to also be his underlings. The Rakata grow concerned he will create a threat, as the Killiks are already growing in numbers. c. 27,600 BBY By this time, the Killiks have grown unchecked and practically devoured all resources on Alderaan. The Rakata fear that if the Killiks spread beyond Alderaan and Alsakan, they will pose a serious threat to the resources of the Infinite Empire, especially if they are corrupted by the Killik Sith Lord. The Celestials/Rakata eventually conquer Alderaan and Alsakan, exiling the Killiks to a hidden location in the Unknown Regions beyond the influence of the Killik Sith Lord and resettling Alsakan with human slaves, but are unable to resettle Alderaan due to the virtual depletion of its resources. Nonetheless, they begin terraforming Alderaan, sowing it with many species of grasses that will hopefully make the planet habitable in the future, also importing aiwhas from Naboo. The Celestials/humans drive the Killik Sith Lord away from Alsakan for good, and he retreats to Sarafur, where he eventually dies and is buried in a tomb. The Celestials trace his steps to Sarafur, and fearing the Dark Side culture he has created as a potential rival, wipe out the Sarafurian race. 27,500 A colony of humans flee industrialized Coruscant (possibly seeking to escape slavery from the Celestials/Rakata?) and settle on Alderaan, discovering the Castle Lands and believing the Killiks extinct. By this time Alderaan again as an abundant ecosystem, the grasses planted by the Rakata having succeeded. The descendants of the imported aiwhas have become the thrantas. The Rakata ignore Alderaan and leave it in peace, as they are plagued with internal strife that will eventually errupt. 25,200 BBY Rakatan Civil War: slave revolts, internal power struggles, and a virus that strips the Rakata of Force- sensitivity; collapse of Infinite Empire. Only a few Rakata remain in the Galaxy, limited now to their homeworld Rakata Prime (Lehon), where they are mostly reduced to small, primitve tribes, their numbers ever dwindling. 25,000 BBY Formation of Galactic Republic. 5,000 BBY Fall of the Old Sith Empire. The Republic commits genocide, but a remnant of the Sith Massassi warriors survive for a millennium on Yavin 4. 4,000-3,956 BBY The One conquers, assimilates, and wipes out many Rakata tribes, further limiting their gene pool. 3,996 BBY Exar Kun (seemingly) wipes out the Massassi, last remnant of the old Sith species. 3,956 BBY The One is and his tribe are wiped out by Revan. 1,000 BBY By this time, the Rakata are extinct. 1.5 ABY Following the Battle of Yavin, small human settlements arise on Yavin 4. Rumors persist of Massassi surviving deep in the jungles, hidden. 35-36 ABY The Killiks return to Known Space and engage in the Swarm War. -----signature----- Include Me in the C & C Mon Cal Jedi Master Compassionate Healer/Amphibious Banshee Author of an "Abeltastic" article that won a MOO award Life-term Fleet Junkie with a Silver FindersFee Waru-class Award
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000 Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 11/1/06 9:53am Subject: RE: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan - Date Edited: 11/1/06 9:55am (1 edits total) Edited By: 000
	I hate the Rakata so very, very much. Workable theory, though. I never considered the possibility of a Joiner Sith Lord.
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Darth_Angle Registered: Jan '06	Date Posted: 11/1/06 10:14am Subject: RE: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan
	I dislike the idea of the Rakata being so important. The question is how old is the Infinite Empire? Assuming they used Centrepoint to create the Corellian System then that would move the IE creation date back would it not? I assume even a controlled movement of a planet through Hyperspace would cause enviromental damage. Granted the Rakata could repair that but it must have taken some time. -----signature----- Long Live Anakin Solo !!! Saltergate End of an Era. Dave Allen's Blue and White Army. Rico Out.
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CeiranHarmony Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 11/1/06 10:46am Subject: RE: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan
	good theory though: we need to include: coruscant wars between taung and humans => taung victorious but leave devastated world that the surviving humans reclaim Kwa/Kwi, Sharu, etc. cultures and their megapowerful technology at that time moving planets through hyperspace sounds Zonama Sekot^^ maybe the Rakata knew one of the living worlds.. or the YVs leaving of their home galaxy in 15000 BBY can be tied to something else, too.. what important events do we have there.. hmm well, the Vultar system, the Corellian system are artificial, as is the MAW cluster. many worlds are terraformed. what else might be artificial in the gffa? Starforge near Lehon, Cosmic Turbine in the Vultar system, Centerpoint in the Corellian system... Star Temples and Infinity Gates in the Kwa/Kwi culture. Look at those names. The Starforge collected solar energy to built fleets The Cosmic Turbine does ??? maybe what a turbine does, change one energy form into another that can be channelled and used (did the vultar system, too have planetary repulsors?) The Centerpoint Station ??? did it have another name? or was it the anglepoint of something special, it is a (hyper)tractor beam, a hyperspacedrive and can open wormholes through hyperspace large enough for planets and fleets or blasts ... What if... a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... There was a dense region of space called Maw cluster with many bright stars. These stars gave birth to planets and moons and those gave birth to life while the galaxy was still dormant and empty. Humans, Reptiloids, Feline, etc. species evolved and interacted. But when the stars grew old and red, the cluster neared its end. Extinction was close and so the millions of years old cultures used all their knowledge for their last hope. While colony ships left the cluster long ago in all directions of the galaxy, having lost contact with the home cluster soon after, the species spread over the galaxy and evolved into billions of subspecies, variations and new lifeforms. But a small group didn´t want to give up hope for their homes. They didn´t want their homeworlds to be destroyed by the supernovae that shuddered through the cluster like thunder and lightning killing all live with their awe inspiring power. What would survive the immense blasts, would be torn apart and eaten by the new maws of the blackholes left behind. So in time before that would happen, these species worked on their plans to save their dying past. The aquatic-reptiloid Rakata were best when it came to using energy, physics and gravitational forces. The Kwa/Kwi reptils specialised in dimensional technology and wormholes. The Sharu bested in another aspect of dimensional technology. And many other species had their special talents. No wonder those who studied energies in all forms, discovered the energy field that would later become THE FORCE. But their approach was too scientific to grasp its full potential and power, and so they used it as drive, energy source and for physical matters only. In time before the catastrophe, the Rakata moved Lehon, Corellia, Vultar and many other planets out of the cluster through hyperspace wormholetunnels. The devastated surfaces had to be terraformed and rebuild, but their worlds and burried secrets were saved. The Kwa/Kwi prefered to evacuate populations through their dimensional tunnels and the Sharu horded knowledge. We know Kashyyyk is only Wookiee Planet C, implying they have had 2 other homeworlds in their past. Maybe Kashyyyk was moved as well out of the Maw Cluster. Maybe Centerpoint Station was moved by the Cosmic turbine until all worlds were evacuated.. and the last of them, the Corellian Worlds kept Centerpoint which was no longer of any use. When the evacuation was not yet complete, the Maw cluster collapsed early due to the gravitational powers that were at work during the Rakatas evacuation plan. They doomed many civilisations and much knowledge to be wiped out. This enraged the other evacuated species and they used their technology to declare war against the arrogant selfish Rakata, whish responded with war in return, creating Starforge station. Enslaving other young civilisations and resettling them, they rose to power and bested the others. The Sharu shut themselves off, The Kwa/Kwi degenerated as well, or were degenerated by the Rakata. Then the power of the Rakata faded with the rise of the slave species: Humans on Coruscant, Corellia, Sith on Korriban, etc. more to come -----signature----- www.njoe.com (Govsec Author) "Less is more!" Union Star Wars Atlas, Star Wars: Invasion Standard Revised Galactic Continuity Proponent My life is an Idiots Array, PURE SABBACC
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Senator_Cilghal Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 11/1/06 11:02am Subject: RE: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan
	i was really looking at the Sith/Rakata/Killik connections, so the Taung/Zhell conflict and Kwi didn't tie in with that in any way I know of;) As for dates, NEGA place the construction of Centerpoint and Maw and formation of Infinite Empire at about 35,000 BBY, so it doesn't change the dates of Infinite Empire much from what we know the way I see it, Rakata call themselves Rakata; conquered races who vaguely recall them call them "Elders" in the KOTOR era, "Architects" among the Corellians, and "Architects" among the Killiks, as all these terms are titles rather than species names per se also, NEGA says the Killiks witnessed the creation of the Maw in the Corellian system! this could be a typo, and mean the Kessel system however, since the Celestials could create black hole clusters and move planets to create systems, is it impossible to hypothesize they could move black hole clusters they constructed? maybe they really did create the Maw in the Corellian system and then moved it near Kessel? creating the Maw in the Core makes it more understandable how the Killiks could witness this, rather than a creation in the Kessel system itself -----signature----- Include Me in the C & C Mon Cal Jedi Master Compassionate Healer/Amphibious Banshee Author of an "Abeltastic" article that won a MOO award Life-term Fleet Junkie with a Silver FindersFee Waru-class Award
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CeiranHarmony Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 11/1/06 11:16am Subject: RE: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan
	Senator_Cilghal posted: i was really looking at the Sith/Rakata/Killik connections, so the Taung/Zhell conflict and Kwi didn't tie in with that in any way I know of;) As for dates, NEGA place the construction of Centerpoint and Maw and formation of Infinite Empire at about 35,000 BBY, so it doesn't change the dates of Infinite Empire much from what we know the way I see it, Rakata call themselves Rakata; conquered races who vaguely recall them call them "Elders" in the KOTOR era, "Architects" among the Corellians, and "Architects" among the Killiks, as all these terms are titles rather than species names per se also, NEGA says the Killiks witnessed the creation of the Maw in the Corellian system! this could be a typo, and mean the Kessel system however, since the Celestials could create black hole clusters and move planets to create systems, is it impossible to hypothesize they could move black hole clusters they constructed? maybe they really did create the Maw in the Corellian system and then moved it near Kessel? creating the Maw in the Core makes it more understandable how the Killiks could witness this, rather than a creation in the Kessel system itself the maw is as huge as a starcluster and cannot be within a system! or did they move a part of the blackholes in the deep core out of the deep core to create something in there? but I doubt it, no moving blackholes please! that is reserved for the Vong -----signature----- www.njoe.com (Govsec Author) "Less is more!" Union Star Wars Atlas, Star Wars: Invasion Standard Revised Galactic Continuity Proponent My life is an Idiots Array, PURE SABBACC
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Ive_Got_Two_Legs Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 11/1/06 12:00pm Subject: RE: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan
	Which Gamer is this Killik Sith in, and was that all that was said about him? -----signature----- "Where's your sense of optimism?" "It opted out."
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Senator_Cilghal Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 11/1/06 12:03pm Subject: RE: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan
	Gamer 9, article: "Search for the Tessent" yeah, there really isnt a lot of detail on him other than his conquest and rule of Sarafur, his exile, his crypt; the (apparent) contradiction is that at one place it says he fled to Sarafur to escape persecution long before humans came to the planet, but a few paragraphs later says he was driven off Alsakan by the humans who supplanted the Killiks on Alsakan! I have tried to retcon fix this contradiction in my reconstruction. Also, he operates as an individual, but recall this was written before Dark Nest revealed the Killik Hive mind. However, Sith Lords are by nature selfish individuals, the opposite of hive mentality, so I tried to make a plausible retcon for this also in my reconstruction. -----signature----- Include Me in the C & C Mon Cal Jedi Master Compassionate Healer/Amphibious Banshee Author of an "Abeltastic" article that won a MOO award Life-term Fleet Junkie with a Silver FindersFee Waru-class Award
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RogueWompRat Registered: Feb '03	Date Posted: 11/1/06 12:29pm Subject: RE: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan
	Star Wars pre-history is such a fecking mess now. They should have left it mysterious, but no, everyone wanted to know exactly how the hyperdrive was created, how the Republic was formed, the birth of the Jedi, etc. Now look at yourselves. -----signature----- "the Force is between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere..."
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Jedimarine Registered: Feb '01	Date Posted: 11/1/06 12:32pm Subject: RE: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan - Date Edited: 11/1/06 12:33pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Jedimarine
	Rakata/Celestials/Architects does make a bit of sense...giving the power of the Rakatans (ex. Star Forge) I can buy Centerpoint being their product...the Maw, I'm not so sure. From my understanding Infinite Empire was 35,000 to 27,000ish...there needs to be a sizeable window left before 25,000 and Republic. I don't mind the Rakata...they seem to be a good tool for making galactic history come together...the only problem is that they are initially presented to us in such a silly, simplistic, almost primitive manner. I look forward to seeing Rakatans as sophisticated, technological, ego-driven, and even tyrannical and cruel. Will be interesting to see. -----signature----- So Devaronian females are suppose to have thick fur, eh? Has anyone seen one outside an essential guide? ... When even the creative teams refuse to make fuzzy Devaronians...it should be a clue, folks. Thus endeth the lesson.
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Sinrebirth Title: Sith Emperor of the SWC Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 11/1/06 1:48pm Subject: RE: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan
	The theory works very well, and can be tied into the scaring the Sharu into vanishing (Centerpoint). I theorised similar events prior to Abels article, which made alot of my theories moot. However, I think that by making the Rakata and Celestials the same you're making a small mistake. The Celestials and Rakata seem to have been entirely separate. Couple of reasons. 1. Technology. One is gravity based - Centerpoint, repulsors - and the other is Force-based - per KotoR. No linkage. Celestial technology may have an affinity to Force-users, but Anakin Solo is a unique entity in his relationship to technology, bar the Iron Knights. 2. Force-sensitivity All Rakata of this time-period are Force-sensitive. Bond any with the Colony, and they wouldn't be remembered, per constructing an artificial will around them. The Killik Sith Lord is not remembered, so why would Rakata? Raynar, Lomi, Welk and Alema more than likely are not, as components of the Will. Celestials are remembered, thus are components of a different kind. So, if the Celestials =/= Rakata, then you have a bunch more problems. Being, the Rakata reach their height at 30,000 BBY, when they capture Corellia and Coruscant. Thus, the Celestials are gone by now from Corellia and Centerpoint. In turn, the Celestials had to have moved the Killiks from Alderaan and Alsakan prior to their removal/death by the Rakata. Doubly, the Sith can't have used Rakata technology to reach Alsakan, by that logic. There's no indication that the Sith under Adas used a hyperdrive to get to Ziost. If so, we'd have heard of the Sith sometime earlier. More than likely they used colony ships, pointing them in a general direction, and ending up on Ziost, and then re-starting their feuds. Like the Yuuzhan Vong, in that respect. By that logic, an earlier colony ship could have arrived at Alderaan, bonded with the Killiks, and led them off-world to Alsakan, more than likely reconstituting the Colony. Or, the first Colony, Thuls being the Second. -----signature----- Darth Insipid Proud Fan of the Tragedy of Jacen Solo Missing Chapters of Invincible; Teaser of Chapter 9.5 is up! Wes vs Tarfang, Gavin and the Coup, Luke and Jacen, and much more! http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28933751/p3/?70
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Pelranius Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 11/1/06 1:56pm Subject: RE: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan
	Irek Ismaren also had an affinity for machines, as did that Sith lord who created those Dark Side nanobots before Ruusan. -----signature----- Fleet Junkie and Proud! Fics: Destiny's Inferno (TTT/DE AU) And the Skywalker Saga KOTOR Style Updated 7/24/06 see bio for details
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Coonsan Registered: Dec '03	Date Posted: 11/1/06 2:15pm Subject: RE: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan
	Could the Rakatans have made each black whole individually in the Corellian system, then moved each one there in position. Possiblity I guess, although I don't know much about the history at this point. But the real question is, WHY make the Maw....mystery indeed. -----signature----- "History is on the move, Captain. Those who cannot keep up with it will be left behind, to watch from a distance. And those who stand in our way will not watch at all."-Grand Admiral Thrawn
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Darth_Angle Registered: Jan '06	Date Posted: 11/1/06 2:19pm Subject: RE: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan
	I don't think the Celestials and the Rakata are the same races. I think it could be possible that the Rakata were slaves/allies of the Celestials. In KotOR the Rakatans were also known as "the Builders" this would imply that there was some sort of relationship between them and the Celestials. -----signature----- Long Live Anakin Solo !!! Saltergate End of an Era. Dave Allen's Blue and White Army. Rico Out.
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Senator_Cilghal Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 11/1/06 2:47pm Subject: RE: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan
	i have in fact considered that the Celestials and Rakata could be related in some way other than being identical heres a thought: the Celestials form an Empire based on high tech, with the Rakata as their slaves, but then the Rakata eventually master and surpass the tech by combining it with the Force, and turn the tables on Celestials? maybe, as well as Rakata slaves, the Celestials used Killik slaves to build Centerpoint (and the Maw). Thus, the Celestials, Rakata, and Killiks can all be attributed with Centerpoint's building? theres no reason for the Sith to have hyperspace themselves, as a Sith refugee could have stolen away on a Rakata (or Killik) vessel. and a Sith Lord coming to Alsakan is speculation on my part. it is also possible, and perhaps more likely, that the Killik Sith visited Korriban or Ziost and learned Sith ways THERE. -----signature----- Include Me in the C & C Mon Cal Jedi Master Compassionate Healer/Amphibious Banshee Author of an "Abeltastic" article that won a MOO award Life-term Fleet Junkie with a Silver FindersFee Waru-class Award
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Darth_Angle Registered: Jan '06	Date Posted: 11/1/06 2:55pm Subject: RE: NEGA, Abel Pena, Sith, Celestials, Architects, Rakata, Killiks, Humans, Alderaan, and Alsakan
	Senator_Cilghal posted: i have in fact considered that the Celestials and Rakata could be related in some way other than being identical heres a thought: the Celestials form an Empire based on high tech, with the Rakata as their slaves, but then the Rakata eventually master and surpass the tech by combining it with the Force, and turn the tables on Celestials? maybe, as well as Rakata slaves, the Celestials used Killik slaves to build Centerpoint (and the Maw). Thus, the Celestials, Rakata, and Killiks can all be attributed with Centerpoint's building? theres no reason for the Sith to have hyperspace themselves, as a Sith refugee could have stolen away on a Rakata (or Killik) vessel. and a Sith Lord coming to Alsakan is speculation on my part. it is also possible, and perhaps more likely, that the Killik Sith visited Korriban or Ziost and learned Sith ways THERE. I've always thought the Rakata and Killiks were both the Builders and the Celestials were the Architects. Maybe what is now the Maw was originally the Celestials home system. -----signature----- Long Live Anakin Solo !!! Saltergate End of an Era. Dave Allen's Blue and White Army. Rico Out.
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