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Topic:
The Origins of Darth Revan
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XPRaider
Registered:
Nov '06
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Date Posted:
11/7/06 4:31am
Subject:
The Origins of Darth Revan
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Hello, I'm new to posting on these forums, but I've been reading the KOTOR comic and have played through both KOTOR games several times. Anyway, now that the introduction is over, there's been something that's been getting to me at the back of my mind.
I'm sure most of you who are reading this have also read issue 9 of KOTOR. I noticed something in this issue which has been nagging at me and I'm curious as to what other people think. After having left the council chambers, Lucien and the other masters talk about the mistakes they believe the council is making and they bring up the idea of fighting a war to retake lost land, which Lucien promptly replies that in basic it is called revanchism, which is a very interesting name for something to have considering the setting and we all know that Revan is going to come out of this period eventually.
For those of you who don't know, revanchism is a real term meaning to go to war in order to take back land that has been lost previously due to war, such that if country A loses to country B in a war and loses land, then country A would be following a revanchism belief if they started a war in order to take back the lost territory.
Considering that Revan before his fall to the darkside was fighting the Mandolorians to protect and reclaim lost territory, his name seemed awfully appropriate to what he was doing. Which makes me wonder if Revan was his real name, or if he took it as an alias for what he was doing and why he was going to war.
With that in mind, I started to get curious as to which if any character that has been shown in the story so far could possibly be Revan, although with a different name. Revan as we know was not that old when he finally went to war against the Madalorians, and this story is set 8 years before the events of KOTOR, meaning Revan should be a young man, possibly a full knight, or possibly a padawan that is fairly far along in his training. Revan was also trained by several masters including the person we know as Kreia, although we don't know who Kriea is yet, or if that is her true name. All we really know about her is that she is somewhat like Atris was ala KOTOR 2, concerning her dialogue about herself in KOTOR 2, and she was a consular, with a talent for seeing with the force since she no longer needed her eyes by the time she was Darth Traya. Right now the person that seems closest to this, as people have pointed out is Lucien's mother. If she is indeed Kreia and also part Miraluka then it would explain why she eventually didn't need her eyes.
Going back to Revan, considering that he was willing to disobey the council regarding the Mandalorians and managed to take the fight to them effectively, it would seem he has had some experience dealing with them in the past. And it is also known that Revan had not only great force potential, but also the ability to inspire others around him, form strong bonds with those close to him, and speak in various languages.
So after speculating this, if we have already seen Revan in the comic, but without being named Revan I think the most likely person to be him would be Zayne Carrick. Let me explain a bit more about why I think this is the case. First off, we know that despite him seemingly having a lack of ability in the Force, Zayne actually has a special connection to it that Lucien and the other masters were not able to bring out, hence why Lucien's mother wanted him to be brought to her. This could very well manifest itself as Revan's true Force potential, and assuming that Krynda = Kreia would make her a master of his as was stated in KOTOR 2. With her dedication to stopping the Sith it would also explain Revan's desire to stop the 'true Sith' from emerging in the outer rim and his dedication to that cause. Despite being a bit of a buffoon, Zayne has managed to put together a ragtag group of adventurers who are quite loyal to him, which is apparent when you consider they risked their lives to snatch him from his master at the end of Commencement. Seeing as how he is about to enter deep into Mandalorian territory, he is likely to see the atrocities wrought on by the Mando's. This is also a very good setup for how we might inspire other Jedi to follow him when he finally goes to war. If he rescues those captive jedi, he could very well be considered a hero to the Republic, and exhonerated by the Jedi council. This will give him future clought when he goes to war agains the Mandalorians, and when he does decide to do this he could very well change his name to Revan in order to reflect his desire to restore those planets taken by the Mandalorians.
So anyway, I'm curious as to what people think, but I really don't have any idea yet as to who would be Malak, but when we see him we should be looking for a rather tall and muscular human, although he doesn't have to be bald he might very well be.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
11/7/06 4:41am
Subject:
RE: The Origins of Darth Revan
- Date Edited:
11/7/06 4:42am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Ulicus
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You would seem to be right on the origin of the name (definitely in an out-of-universe sense at least), and Leland Chee agrees with you. It also works in the context of the dark sided game. Revan is desposed as Dark Lord by Malak, then works on reclaiming his title. It is not *impossible* that Revan invented the name for himself, but given the way the masters talk about him in KotOR I, this seems unlikely.
However, as for Zayne Carrick being Revan, it's just not possible. Revan is stated as having been an exceptionally gifted padawan, one that was admired and respected throughout the Jedi Order (though not by certain masters, obviously) and it is also stated that Kreia was Revan's first maser. Zayne does not fit these criteria.
Still, that was a good first post and an interesting read, welcome to the forums.
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XPRaider
Registered:
Nov '06
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Date Posted:
11/7/06 11:29pm
Subject:
RE: The Origins of Darth Revan
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Thanks for the warm welcome. And you do have a good point about Zayne not being Revan. But I'm still curious as to what role he'll play. It could also be that if Zayne is Revan there's a continuity flub, or at the very least if Zayne becomes Revan, when he does so Kreia would be his master at the time and would have helped him discover his true power within the force. From a certain point of view then, as Revan Kreia would be his first master and he would be an exceptional padawan.
One of the points made about the series was that it would parallel the games in that the main character starts off weak and unaware of what's going on around him. Another point that I forgot about when I made the original post was that I had seen on darkhorse.com a picture for an upcoming issue of KOTOR, featuring HK-47 on the cover. And while I suppose there could be other reasons for him being there, it would fit in with Zayne becoming Revan. Here's a link to the cover in question. http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-394
Even if Zayne is not Revan, there is definitely some tie ins between the two characters, even if we don't see them yet.
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cbagmjg
Registered:
Jul '06
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Date Posted:
11/7/06 11:58pm
Subject:
RE: The Origins of Darth Revan
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HK-47 was built by Revan after the Mandalorian Wars to assassinate key figures around the galaxy(Mostly Jedi who disagreed with Revan). The droid there is more than likely just an HK model, though pieces of him could end up part of HK-47. And Zayne being Revan would be a huge continuity flub. Him and Malak by now would be petitioning the jedi to do something about the Mandalorians. He would not be on the run from anybody and everybody in the galaxy. Plus, it's been stated(yet not always 100%)on Star Wars wiki that Revan was in fact his real name. As was Malak's.
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Ulicus
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Jul '05
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Date Posted:
11/8/06 3:41am
Subject:
RE: The Origins of Darth Revan
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They could make Zayne Revan, but it would require a lot of retconning, and I wouldn't like it.
I'm thinking though... on the issue of Revan's name and it's meaning.
Let's just imagine this:
A formerly respected Jedi Master has lost a lot of standing in the Order for promoting her "Greyish" philosophies. Not only that, but she's never even taken on a padawan, so lost has she been in the studying and recording of the Jedi histories - therefore her opinion is carrying even less weight.
"What do you know of teaching?" The other masters might say, "We know that your philosophies would never work!"
So she goes travelling, in seach of a student that will prove all the masters wrong, becoming increasingly obsessed with proving them wrong and reclaiming her place as one of the most respected of the Jedi Masters. While on a transport ship*, she discovers an abandoned baby and in him senses the Force more strongly that she has ever felt it in any other. She decides that through this child - who will be her first padawan - she will reclaim her lost standing, and thus she names him Revan.
Of course, in the end, Revan turns to the dark side. As do all her pupils after him... and so, eventually, does she. But even so, she remains desperate to find the pupil through which she will prove them all wrong...
*Since Kreia does not know where Revan came from
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XPRaider
Registered:
Nov '06
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Date Posted:
11/8/06 7:57am
Subject:
RE: The Origins of Darth Revan
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cbagmjg posted:
HK-47 was built by Revan after the Mandalorian Wars to assassinate key figures around the galaxy(Mostly Jedi who disagreed with Revan). The droid there is more than likely just an HK model, though pieces of him could end up part of HK-47. And Zayne being Revan would be a huge continuity flub. Him and Malak by now would be petitioning the jedi to do something about the Mandalorians. He would not be on the run from anybody and everybody in the galaxy. Plus, it's been stated(yet not always 100%)on Star Wars wiki that Revan was in fact his real name. As was Malak's.
In KOTOR II, when he meets the Exile, he states that he is unique, at least until the HK-50s were designed. Assuming that's true, then that is HK-47.
And remember this story is taking place 8 years before the first game. He and Malak could be knights or even padawans at this point, only just discovering the problems with the Mandalorians. As for the name, we've seen several characters go by different names. Old Ben Kenobi, Darth Vader (which became his true name at that point), Darth Maul, and Darth Bane. At this point it's really hard to say. And I may be wrong, I just see a possibility.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
11/8/06 9:46am
Subject:
RE: The Origins of Darth Revan
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XPRaider posted:
cbagmjg posted:
HK-47 was built by Revan after the Mandalorian Wars to assassinate key figures around the galaxy(Mostly Jedi who disagreed with Revan). The droid there is more than likely just an HK model, though pieces of him could end up part of HK-47. And Zayne being Revan would be a huge continuity flub. Him and Malak by now would be petitioning the jedi to do something about the Mandalorians. He would not be on the run from anybody and everybody in the galaxy. Plus, it's been stated(yet not always 100%)on Star Wars wiki that Revan was in fact his real name. As was Malak's.
In KOTOR II, when he meets the Exile, he states that he is unique, at least until the HK-50s were designed. Assuming that's true, then that is HK-47.
Yup, you're both right. KotOR II made plenty of mistakes  After all, it is QUITE clear that the Sith in KotOR I recognise HK-47 as a "Hunter Killer" droid... yet HK-47 claims to be of unique design in KotOR II. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
We could just say that HK-47 was wrong/deluded about being completely unique in appearance, either that or he was actually constructed *prior* to the destruction of Malachor (still preferably by Revan), only to have his memory wiped by Revan later on and told that that was the point of his destruction.
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EduardoBlake
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
11/8/06 11:04am
Subject:
RE: The Origins of Darth Revan
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HK-47's date of creation always gives me a headache.
Factoring that HK-47 is supposed to have fought Mandalore, him being created after Malachor V creates a little problem with Mandalore being dead. So either his memory was damaged with his problems from both KOTORs, or there has to be a "pseudo-Mandalore" running around after Malachor V. Or something.
What I don't remember without replaying the game, was HK-47 also built to help Revan locate some of the Star Maps? I think that was the reason he knew how to speak the Sand People's language.
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Dark_Lord_Jax
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
11/8/06 11:55am
Subject:
RE: The Origins of Darth Revan
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Unique can also be his internal workings and not just his exterior.
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Ulicus
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Jul '05
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Date Posted:
11/8/06 11:56am
Subject:
RE: The Origins of Darth Revan
- Date Edited:
11/8/06 12:02pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Ulicus
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EduardoBlake posted:
HK-47's date of creation always gives me a headache.
Factoring that HK-47 is supposed to have fought Mandalore, him being created after Malachor V creates a little problem with Mandalore being dead. So either his memory was damaged with his problems from both KOTORs, or there has to be a "pseudo-Mandalore" running around after Malachor V. Or something.
Another continuity mistake on the part of Obsidian. There WAS actually another Mandalore running around between Ultimate and Canderous. He's even referenced in KotOR I. Obsidian just decided to ignore this fact and state that Canderous was the first new Mandalore since Ultimate.
EduardoBlake posted:
What I don't remember without replaying the game, was HK-47 also built to help Revan locate some of the Star Maps? I think that was the reason he knew how to speak the Sand People's language.
That's what it said in the WotC article on him, and it was implied a little bit in KotOR II.
Dark_Lord_Jax posted:
Unique can also be his internal workings and not just his exterior.
Yeah, except it is clearly in reference to his appearance:
Exile: You look a lot like a series of droids that have attacked me.
HK-47: Answer: Oh, that is impossible, master. If I were out to kill you, we would not be speaking.
HK-47: And regardless, I am a unique model. Why, to think that there would be other versions of me would be unacceptable.
Exile: Well, there's at least four other now defunct versions of you in the galaxy.
HK-47: Statement: Master, I must inform you that your attempts at humor are wasted on a droid such as I. As I have expressed, I am unique.
It fills me with such joy that Obsidian bothered to research the first game so thoroughly.  Ah well, at least they got out a compeleted product... 
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cbagmjg
Registered:
Jul '06
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Date Posted:
11/8/06 8:48pm
Subject:
RE: The Origins of Darth Revan
- Date Edited:
11/8/06 8:50pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
cbagmjg
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He might of helped Revan with the Star Maps, but he was primarily an assassin droid. He tells the Exile that she was the reason for him being built, which was after Malachor. "Well master, I was not at Malachor 5 during your near-genocidal reaction to the Mandalorian threat, but I feel that I may have been constructed as a result of that". " I believe that Revan determined that mass slaughter on such a scale may no longer be needed to achieve his aims. So perhaps you are responsible for my creation". "Clarification: I meant that I was built as a result of the need for a selective killing machine rather than a crude mass-slaughter war droid". The Exile asks if he was created on Malachor. "Answer: No master, I was constructed shortly after the beginning of the Jedi Civil War". "So my targets were frequently Jedi, or someone close to a Jedi that could result in their corruption or collapse. Revan often assigned me to kill leaders or supporters of certain Jedi so as to erode their will." This is word for word, not speculation. I just happened to have it saved still. I hope this clears up some questions.
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XPRaider
Registered:
Nov '06
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Date Posted:
11/9/06 12:42am
Subject:
RE: The Origins of Darth Revan
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Well, it doesn't really clear it up, it makes it a bit more complicated. It seems there is a bit of a continuity flub. Because if we go by everything being stated and shown being true, then HK is a unique model, was built by Revan, and was created sometime after Malachore V. But, we also have a picture of him showing him being around in things 8-9 years before he was built. Because if he was right and he is unique, then that has to be him in that image.
There are 2 ways I can think of in which this can be resolved. 1. HK was wrong when he said he was unique. Which is possible, but seeing as how the comics are showing various characters that appeared in the games, and HK-47 has been deeply involved in the KOTOR story to date, I find it odd that they would just happen to introduce a new droid in the KOTOR series that looks exactly like HK-47. 2. He was wrong about when he was built, because as far as he would know, his earliest known activation was also when he was built. He could very well have been mind-wiped and doesn't remember anything before this time.
This being Star Wars, I somehow doubt it is a pure coincidence that the droid on the cover looks exactly like HK-47.
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Excellence
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
11/9/06 12:48am
Subject:
RE: The Origins of Darth Revan
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Was going to thread a similar topic so might as well ask where. Any particular reason why the developers chose "Revan" as the name?
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Ulicus
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Date Posted:
11/9/06 3:08am
Subject:
RE: The Origins of Darth Revan
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Excellence posted:
Was going to thread a similar topic so might as well ask where. Any particular reason why the developers chose "Revan" as the name?
Seems to be from "Revanche/Revanchism", or "the act of regaining lost territory".
I also like "Revenant" as a source, in it's context of "returning after a lengthy absence".
Basically, it's all in the "rev" bit, returning/regaining, etc etc.
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Excellence
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Date Posted:
11/9/06 3:22am
Subject:
RE: The Origins of Darth Revan
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I see, and thus understand.
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cbagmjg
Registered:
Jul '06
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Date Posted:
11/9/06 10:08am
Subject:
RE: The Origins of Darth Revan
- Date Edited:
11/9/06 10:20am (3 edits total)
Edited By:
cbagmjg
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He might not be a unique model after all. He didn't know there were other droids like him until proven otherwise by the Exile. The background of the cover for issue#13 looks very close to being a droid factory. Possibly the same one mentioned in KOTOR 2. Go to the Darkhorse boards and look up the issue #13 thread. Jeremy Barlow Quotes:"You're not assuming that HK-47 is the only assassin droid running around out there, are you?"
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