Author Topic: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point?
cbagmjg  431 posts
Registered: Jul '06
41233_Darth Nihilus
Date Posted: 1/29/07 6:20pm Subject: RE: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point?
Well atleast it's not cheesy like the series set before it. And cheesy is an understatement.

 

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Carnage04  4916 posts
Registered: Mar '05
43718_Darth Nihl
Date Posted: 1/29/07 7:36pm Subject: RE: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point?
Mayor_Adam_West posted:
The problem is, Zayne was pretty much the worst in his jedi class. You're not gonna see super Force powers from him anytime soon. If that's what you want you may be reading the wrong series.


I dunno. There are "Moments" where he appears to be improving.

"A fall couldn't have done this. He was Thrown." - Zayne
"As bulky as he is? Who could throw a mass like this?" - Jarael
"A Jedi could. I Can." - Zayne, picking up LB with the force like he's a ragdoll.

The previously mentioned placing of the Mine Charges on Flashpoint.

"It wasn't over the official Republic Channels" - Zem, Vanquo Outpost
"It was over the official Republic channels" - Zayne
"IT WAS OVER THE OFFICIAL REPUBLIC CHANNELS!" - Zem
"The planet is under attack" - Zayne
"THE PLANET IS UNDER ATTACK!" - Zem

Zayne used mind tricks with ease.

"You are fast henchman, are you sure your Folks weren't professionals?" - Gryph, after Zayne sicked LB on Rohan

"Jarael" - Dressed as Demagol on Flashpoint

The most recent being the relative ease that he chucked crates at the Ithorians in the latest Episode.

I almost feel like the key was not his announcement to the Jedi Masters, but a few key statements in the prior two installments.

"Everyone has Predators, Zayne. Everyone has Predators, you just don't endanger others to save yourself. If THAT is the way you think, your skills weren't the only thing keeping you from being a Jedi." - Jarael
Prior to this, Zayne was running and running, fearing what would happen.
"I'm going to stop this prophecy from happening. I'm going to turn myself in" - Zayne

But the Snivvian has abandoned him just as we forsaw. Isn't that right, boy?" - Q'Nalia
"I see you got the room cleaned up." - Zayne

Here Zayne is standing up to 5 Jedi Masters that are likely going to kill him but does not lose his cool.

"We will deal with the Crew, and his friends, and this Nightmare will be over Zayne." - Lucien
"WHY? I'm the Threat" - Zayne

"Wait! Shad's little brother and Sister. He was sending them their stipend. They've got nobody now. Please help them." - Zayne
"We'll consider it. Goodbye Zayne." - Lucien

"Run if you want! - But Hide! Forgot our ways. Bury yourself before you bury us all. Respect the vision. Fear what you may become!" - Lucien
"I can't. Fear leads to the Dark Side. Doesn't it, Master?" - Zayne

"I'm tired of betting against myself. If you guys can bet on me, maybe I can too." - Zayne

So what am I getting at here? Zayne was being trained by Lucien and others that were not wanting to train Padawans. I'm guessing he was not trained well. His adventures after the massacre led him to make some friends. Zayne may be a chump in the regard that he needs some kind of reinforcement, but it seems that he was not really EVER thought highly of. From the moment that Vandar announced he had a "Marginal Proclivity" for the force onward, he probably was never taken seriously. Now, Gryph and Jarael have some respect for him as a person as well as his abilities. Being one that "Forms connections" easily, perhaps he needs these connections and approval to realize his potential. He also needs some guidance to undo the damage that Lucien's likely poor training of him did. Sadly, it was Jarael that first opened his eyes with the "Your skills are not the only thing holding you back" comment, not a Jedi. From this point on he began to understand what it means to be a Jedi. He did not instantly go on his quest to kill off his Masters, he has been helping others in the meantime. 1. Freeing the Jedi and Jarael on Flashpoint while putting himself in grave danger. 2. Risking capture by the Moomo brothers who are working with Ranna Tey. 3. Taking the money Gryph paid him and sending it to (I assume) Shel and her brother on Taris. 4. Keeping faith in Master Vandar and sending his dad and family there to be safe.

Zayne may never become Revan, or Nihilus, or the Exile, or Scion or any of the "Powerhouse" Jedi/Sith we see later on, but he is becoming a fine Jedi Knight putting the welfare of others ahead of his own personal Vendettas. This, and his newfound faith in himself because of his friends is really starting to make him blossom. He is not ready to stand up to the Covenant, but he isn't the complete moron we first saw in issue #00.

Carnage



 

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Mayor_Adam_West  265 posts
Registered: Aug '06
40052_Darth Nihilus
Date Posted: 1/29/07 7:54pm Subject: RE: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point?
I think I was unclear in my other post. I don't think Zayne will always be a weak jedi. That point you brought up about Zayne never really being givin a chance by the order was a good one, and he's no doubt shown he's got some skills.

But don't think he'll be a powerhouse jedi(as you put it), bringing the dead back to life or consuming whole planets, which is what vong333 sounds like he wants out of him.

 

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Carnage04  4916 posts
Registered: Mar '05
43718_Darth Nihl
Date Posted: 1/29/07 8:00pm Subject: RE: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point?
Mayor_Adam_West posted:
I think I was unclear in my other post. I don't think Zayne will always be a weak jedi. That point you brought up about Zayne never really being givin a chance by the order was a good one, and he's no doubt shown he's got some skills.

But don't think he'll be a powerhouse jedi(as you put it), bringing the dead back to life or consuming whole planets, which is what vong333 sounds like he wants out of him.


Indeed. I really really don't want that out of him. What I do want is a highly competent and effectual Jedi that still has his "Oh man" type moments.

Carnage

 

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Sikon  907 posts
Registered: Mar '06
14531_Bastila Shan
Date Posted: 1/29/07 11:58pm Subject: RE: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point?
vong333 posted:
I'm not feeling this series. I really liked the Tales of the Jedi stuff, those were good. This one, I don't know, its got the same prequel feel to it. If it is a refelction of the games, then are we going to get different colors of lightsabers? What about the force powers? There kinda bland if you ask me. Heck, Legacy already has the bring back to life power, and the Swarm War and LOTF has the time travel thing, heck the first book of LOTF has Mara doing this force levitation, heat abosorption, air defelction thing for two hundred meters. Whats going on with this series? It just seams way to bland for me. Little action, I don't know.
Read the post-ROTJ novels. The ubar Force pwnage they describe will exactly suit your tastes. The KOTOR comics are about different things.
Charlemagne19 posted:
I like better the idea that the padawan massacre had NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on the future.

It makes it even more pointless and horrific.

Seconded.

 

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BobaMatt  14573 posts
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered: Aug '02
47935_Luke Skywalker - Dark Side
Date Posted: 1/30/07 12:21am Subject: RE: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point?
Sikon posted:
vong333 posted:
I'm not feeling this series. I really liked the Tales of the Jedi stuff, those were good. This one, I don't know, its got the same prequel feel to it. If it is a refelction of the games, then are we going to get different colors of lightsabers? What about the force powers? There kinda bland if you ask me. Heck, Legacy already has the bring back to life power, and the Swarm War and LOTF has the time travel thing, heck the first book of LOTF has Mara doing this force levitation, heat abosorption, air defelction thing for two hundred meters. Whats going on with this series? It just seams way to bland for me. Little action, I don't know.
Read the post-ROTJ novels. The ubar Force pwnage they describe will exactly suit your tastes. The KOTOR comics are about different things.

I'd say he's done that, considering the examples he's used. I think he'd just like to see it in KotOR also.
Sikon posted:
Charlemagne19 posted:
I like better the idea that the padawan massacre had NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on the future.

It makes it even more pointless and horrific.

Seconded.

I think it makes it more pointless and horrific if, had the murders not taken place, the prophecy wouldn't have come true. Of course, I also don't want Zayne to become a Sith, so I'm stuck in a tough position.

 

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Ulicus  7359 posts
Registered: Jul '05
41990_Duron Qel-Droma
Date Posted: 1/30/07 12:36am Subject: RE: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point?
BobaMatt posted:

I think it makes it more pointless and horrific if, had the murders not taken place, the prophecy wouldn't have come true. Of course, I also don't want Zayne to become a Sith, so I'm stuck in a tough position.

I don't want him to become a Sith, I just think it would be a better story if he did... well, if he became Darth Nihilus, anyway. Though Zayne could fly off into a million different sunsets to have quarter-arkanian babies (or whatever) with Jarael whilst Alek* became Darth Nihilus just as easily...


* Who is undoubtedly someone we know, be it Malak, Sion or Nihilus.

 

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Sikon  907 posts
Registered: Mar '06
14531_Bastila Shan
Date Posted: 1/30/07 5:26am Subject: RE: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point?
BobaMatt posted:

I think it makes it more pointless and horrific if, had the murders not taken place, the prophecy wouldn't have come true. Of course, I also don't want Zayne to become a Sith, so I'm stuck in a tough position.
So? I think the prophecy wouldn't have come true if the Padawan Massacre hadn't been committed, and it still won't come true now that they have been.

 

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Darth_Shpydar  1061 posts
Registered: Oct '06
40102_Anakin
Date Posted: 1/30/07 7:55am Subject: RE: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point?
Carnage04 posted:
Indeed. I really really don't want that out of him. What I do want is a highly competent and effectual Jedi that still has his "Oh man" type moments.


Agreed. I'd like to see Zayne develop into an Obi-Wan style Jedi (which i think is what he's leaning towards). I'm glad he's been developing away from the "bumbling Padawan" of the early issues, which put me off from the series for a bit.

 

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BobaMatt  14573 posts
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered: Aug '02
47935_Luke Skywalker - Dark Side
Date Posted: 1/30/07 7:59am Subject: RE: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point? - Date Edited: 1/30/07 7:59am (1 edits total) Edited By: BobaMatt
Sikon posted:
BobaMatt posted:
I think it makes it more pointless and horrific if, had the murders not taken place, the prophecy wouldn't have come true. Of course, I also don't want Zayne to become a Sith, so I'm stuck in a tough position.
So? I think the prophecy wouldn't have come true if the Padawan Massacre hadn't been committed, and it still won't come true now that they have been.

lol Calm down a bit, Sikon. I was just stating my opinion.

 

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cbagmjg  431 posts
Registered: Jul '06
41233_Darth Nihilus
Date Posted: 1/30/07 1:27pm Subject: RE: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point?
I think it's pretty obvious that Zayne is a lot more than he's been made out to be. He's proven himself more than compitent so far and why would Haazen say what he said if he didn't sense it as well. I'm not 100% sure that he will be a straight up bada**, but he has the potential to make a huge difference in this era. If he didn't then he wouldn't be the main character of this arc.

But in regards to him being a Jedi/Sith in the future, I have a gut feeling that he's being set up to go down the dark path. The only question is how far will he go. Most the main characters, that aren't movie characters, seem to go down the dark path one way or another. Exar, Vos, Ulic, Aayala(or however the hell you spell it), Rain/Zannah, her brother, and it's yet to be seen whether or not Cade will.

 

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Tanith_Shire  131 posts
Registered: Sep '04
42096_Kol Skywalker
Date Posted: 1/30/07 2:38pm Subject: RE: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point?
I think the connection between the Padawans and the "Destroyer of Worlds" the Covenant saw was Zayne's rescue of Squint, who I believe will be Darth Malak. Consider that Q'Anilia first faints as Alek is telling Zayne the slightly ominous line about entering the dark to save the light. Then there is his red suit.

I don't think its the main character who will "go dark" but rather the secondary folks. As for Zayne, I think he'll remain Zayne Carrick though he will somehow influence/help the Jedi Exile and possibly be left when the dust is standing to help rebuild things. Zayne is a survivor and won't it be interesting if he somehow sets up the whole Chosen One prophecy?

I think its one of the Covenant who will become a Sith and am rather partial to the idea of Lucius becoming Nihilus myself. It would fit the circumstances of the vision in which Krynda dies since that particular mother/son relationship is seriouslt twisted and parallels the warped Master/Padawan relationship he has with Zayne. Poor Lucius is repeating the cycle with the closest thing he has to a son - Zayne. Mayne Lucius/Nihilus will on some level see a likeness on some level between Visas Marr and the Exile with the Padawan he failed.

 

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cbagmjg  431 posts
Registered: Jul '06
41233_Darth Nihilus
Date Posted: 1/30/07 6:09pm Subject: RE: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point?
I still see Lucien as more Sion than Nihilus. Lucien, like Sion, focuses more on brute strength. He's more of a swordsman than anything, to which Nihilus is obviously more atuned to the force considering how he is literally a "Destroyer of Worlds". And Nihilus's powers are very unique, if not special, in a strange way. His powers are more of something he can't help, rather than something he chooses, unlike most Sith. Lucien and Sion don't come across as the sharpest tools in the shed. If Lucien ever did become Nihilus, it would strictly be because of him and his mother's relationship with Q'anilia. But the sole reason,according to the games, that Nihilus destroyed Kataar is because Jedi gathered there, not so much his hatred of them. I have and until proven otherwise, always seen him as Lu-Sion Draay, the scion of an important family--Both in the Republic and the Jedi Order.

In the future I will be watching to see if Zayne spases out like when Jarael calls him a Jedi killer or if he looks like he has exhausted himself, especially if Zayne's pose on the cover of #15 is what I think it is. Nihilus does the same thing during the fight with him.

 

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Havac  14313 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 1/30/07 9:30pm Subject: RE: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point?
Tanith_Shire posted:
I think the connection between the Padawans and the "Destroyer of Worlds" the Covenant saw was Zayne's rescue of Squint, who I believe will be Darth Malak. Consider that Q'Anilia first faints as Alek is telling Zayne the slightly ominous line about entering the dark to save the light. Then there is his red suit.

Alek's far too short to be Malak and has the wrong color eyes. The creative team like to play with us, but they tend to give us the clues to show when they're just messing with us. His eyes are also the wrong color for Sion's, too. His only shot is at Nihilus.

 

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Carnage04  4916 posts
Registered: Mar '05
43718_Darth Nihl
Date Posted: 1/30/07 11:52pm Subject: RE: Will Zayne Carrick start to build himself up at any point?
Ulicus posted:
BobaMatt posted:

I think it makes it more pointless and horrific if, had the murders not taken place, the prophecy wouldn't have come true. Of course, I also don't want Zayne to become a Sith, so I'm stuck in a tough position.

I don't want him to become a Sith, I just think it would be a better story if he did... well, if he became Darth Nihilus, anyway. Though Zayne could fly off into a million different sunsets to have quarter-arkanian babies (or whatever) with Jarael whilst Alek* became Darth Nihilus just as easily...


* Who is undoubtedly someone we know, be it Malak, Sion or Nihilus.


It is entirely possible that the Padawan massacre made no difference as to the Sith rising up again. What MAY have made a difference is that one of the dead Padawans or Zayne if he hadn't been chased away would have had some powers to STOP the Sith threat. The Prophecy essentially foretold the coming of the Sith and that the Padawans seem to be involved.

When Squint and Zayne meet, Q'Nalia faints sensing that "Several lines have crossed". Perhaps Alek does become Malek. Alek seems to have some respect for Zayne pre-flashpoint for some reason or another. Perhaps these "Bonds" Zayne forms could have helped to keep Malak from falling to the Dark. When Q'Nalia senses paths crossing, she was seeing a type of "Shatterpoint"....Zayne alive + Alek = No Malek. Zayne on the run and not being able to travel with and support Alek = Rise of Darth Malek....

Or something of the sort. The visions are of course very vague. I do not want Zayne to end up to be anyone more than Zayne, and the Covenant murders to end up preventing the ones that would end up saving the Jedi from falling were the ones that the Covenant did away with/chased off.

Carange

 

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