Author Topic: Characters that certain authors don't get.
MistrX  1557 posts
Registered: Jun '06
14536_Wedge Antilles
Date Posted: 2/13/07 1:39pm Subject: RE: Characters that certain authors don't get.
J_K_DART posted:

Charles: according to DL, Yoda concluded that it was Anakin's upbringing that led to his becoming vulnerable to the Dark Side.


Just because Yoda says it doesn't make it a fact. He's the one that says mourning and missing your dead friends and attachment lead to the Dark Side. Luke's order pretty much proved that that wasn't necessarily the case. Not even Yoda's right all the time.

 

-----signature-----
We are well and truly forked
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
BobaMatt  14589 posts
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered: Aug '02
47935_Luke Skywalker - Dark Side
Date Posted: 2/13/07 1:41pm Subject: RE: Characters that certain authors don't get. - Date Edited: 2/13/07 1:42pm (1 edits total) Edited By: BobaMatt
MistrX posted:
He's the one that says mourning and missing your dead friends and attachment lead to the Dark Side. Luke's order pretty much proved that that wasn't necessarily the case. Not even Yoda's right all the time.

Especially when you divorce his words from content and meaning.

Of course, you're right. Obi-Wan and Yoda both seem to feel Anakin's redemption isn't really an option.

Also, Yoda calls Dooku his padawan. Apparently, he was wrong.

 

-----signature-----
DUNE - Chronicles of the Imperium RP
http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_wars_role_playing/b10755/29433346/p1/?11
As Father and Son (An AU RP)
http://boards.theforce.net/role_playing_forum/b10328/28357048/p1/?10
Emperor Fel's badassery knows no bounds.
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Havac  14342 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 2/13/07 4:50pm Subject: RE: Characters that certain authors don't get.
BobaMatt posted:
Also, Yoda calls Dooku his padawan. Apparently, he was wrong.

Dooku may have been his Padawan the same way Anakin was Ki-Adi-Mundi's. whistling

 

-----signature-----
"Is there a captain's hat involved in this?"
"I . . . don't know what department I want. I need . . . pants."
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Charlemagne19  26817 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 2/14/07 5:02am Subject: RE: Characters that certain authors don't get.
I'd like to say that I always have enjoyed Kevin J. Anderson and Walter John William's Pellaeon whom, along with Zahn, is the only three that felt RIGHT even if the Gardening conversation isn't entirely what I think Old Gilead would have with his old enemies (Unless the gardens were telling him that the Rebels would attack from the North by the blooming of the Rose)

I like Pellaeon as a guy who like Kent Brockman lives by the old adage "I've said it before and I'll say it again, democracy simply does not work."

 

Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Ris_jSarek  2557 posts
Registered: Feb '05
18187_Z-95 Headhunter
Date Posted: 2/14/07 1:44pm Subject: RE: Characters that certain authors don't get.
Charlemagne19 posted:
I'd like to say that I always have enjoyed Kevin J. Anderson and Walter John William's Pellaeon whom, along with Zahn, is the only three that felt RIGHT even if the Gardening conversation isn't entirely what I think Old Gilead would have with his old enemies (Unless the gardens were telling him that the Rebels would attack from the North by the blooming of the Rose)

I like Pellaeon as a guy who like Kent Brockman lives by the old adage "I've said it before and I'll say it again, democracy simply does not work."


I don't think his other portrayals imply otherwise. But just because he has no faith in democracy, that doesn't mean he is automatically a callous Social Darwinist autocrat, either. That was my big problem with his portrayal in Destiny's Way - not that he had to play diplomatic hardball with the Solos, but because he was an out-of-character prig while doing it.

I really wish Del Rey had let Williams keep the scene of Pellaeon and Solo getting drunk together in Destiny's Way. I don't know if it would have necessarily made up for the portrayal in the negotiating scenes, but it might have mitigated them a little.

 

-----signature-----
http://churchofbrad.com/jsarek/
Proud recipient of Halagad_Ventor's MOO (Master of Obscurity) Award, Brett_Bass's Spiffy Crown™, and Thrawn McEwok's "Ohh...? Interesting..." Award™
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
DarthSanctimonious  812 posts
Registered: Sep '06
14531_Bastila Shan
Date Posted: 2/14/07 2:02pm Subject: RE: Characters that certain authors don't get. - Date Edited: 2/14/07 2:06pm (2 edits total) Edited By: DarthSanctimonious
Ris_jSarek: And since when have war crimes been okay?

Ever since Luke, Omas, and the rest of the gang decided leave Nas Choka in charge of the Vong on Zonoma rather than hauling his scarified rear end in front of a tribunal.

Let the Vong have the planet? Fair enough. Let your friendly neighborhood Herman Göring-analogue retain his position? I think not.

 

Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
MercenaryAce  2816 posts
Registered: Aug '05
8117_Y-Wing Pilot
Date Posted: 2/14/07 7:11pm Subject: RE: Characters that certain authors don't get.
Wouln't he be more along the lines of Durnitz?

 

-----signature-----
"I am no man...I am a space station!"
Another star wars ships, droids and troops site:
http://armiesofstarwars.com/
It does have info found nowhere
Move all sig, for great justice
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Charlemagne19  26817 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 2/14/07 7:13pm Subject: RE: Characters that certain authors don't get.
MercenaryAce posted:
Wouln't he be more along the lines of Durnitz?


Yes, Nas Choka clearly waged aggressive warfare and was a bad, bad, bad man but he's also the guy who took out his own dissenting people.

 

Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Charlemagne19  26817 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 2/14/07 7:33pm Subject: RE: Characters that certain authors don't get.
Ris_jSarek posted:
I don't think his other portrayals imply otherwise. But just because he has no faith in democracy, that doesn't mean he is automatically a callous Social Darwinist autocrat, either. That was my big problem with his portrayal in Destiny's Way - not that he had to play diplomatic hardball with the Solos, but because he was an out-of-character prig while doing it.


Yeah, well I always assumed that Pellaeon was pointing out that the Empire is all about removing the dissident and criminal elements from their society. I don't see why he'd feel the need to point that out at a Vong conference but it's a nice reminder that he's their idealogical opposite.

 

Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Havac  14342 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 2/14/07 9:23pm Subject: RE: Characters that certain authors don't get.
Ris_jSarek posted:
I really wish Del Rey had let Williams keep the scene of Pellaeon and Solo getting drunk together in Destiny's Way. I don't know if it would have necessarily made up for the portrayal in the negotiating scenes, but it might have mitigated them a little.

What?

That would be, like, the most mind-blowingly awesome thing ever. The only way it could get cooler is if the beer came from Vape.

"Vape: cold one."

 

-----signature-----
"Is there a captain's hat involved in this?"
"I . . . don't know what department I want. I need . . . pants."
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
dizfactor  7826 posts
Registered: Aug '02
6896_Obi-Wan<br>LEGO
Date Posted: 2/14/07 9:30pm Subject: RE: Characters that certain authors don't get.
dp4m posted:
And Padme? Enabler much?


Just... don't even get me started on Padme.

Leia is strong evidence for nurture over nature in the SW universe, let's put it that way. She's so much more like Bail than Padme or Anakin.

 

-----signature-----
"Play is going to be for the 21st century what steam was to the 19th century."
Julian Dibbell
"You gotta love an elite killing force that you can fool by putting on a hat."
Gryph
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Ris_jSarek  2557 posts
Registered: Feb '05
18187_Z-95 Headhunter
Date Posted: 2/14/07 11:20pm Subject: RE: Characters that certain authors don't get. - Date Edited: 2/14/07 11:34pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Ris_jSarek
Havac posted:
Ris_jSarek posted:
I really wish Del Rey had let Williams keep the scene of Pellaeon and Solo getting drunk together in Destiny's Way. I don't know if it would have necessarily made up for the portrayal in the negotiating scenes, but it might have mitigated them a little.

What?

That would be, like, the most mind-blowingly awesome thing ever. The only way it could get cooler is if the beer came from Vape.

"Vape: cold one."


Yep, it's true; you can read about it here.

 

-----signature-----
http://churchofbrad.com/jsarek/
Proud recipient of Halagad_Ventor's MOO (Master of Obscurity) Award, Brett_Bass's Spiffy Crown™, and Thrawn McEwok's "Ohh...? Interesting..." Award™
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
MistrX  1557 posts
Registered: Jun '06
14536_Wedge Antilles
Date Posted: 2/15/07 4:29pm Subject: RE: Characters that certain authors don't get.
BobaMatt posted:

Especially when you divorce his words from content and meaning.




I can't say I see how I did that.

 

-----signature-----
We are well and truly forked
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
BobaMatt  14589 posts
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered: Aug '02
47935_Luke Skywalker - Dark Side
Date Posted: 2/15/07 4:40pm Subject: RE: Characters that certain authors don't get.
That quote is often used to make Yoda - and the Jedi in general - out to be coldhearted bastards, and we can see that that's not true, that that's not how the Jedi roll. The only way that Yoda telling Anakin to not dwell on the loss of his friend can be used as an indictment is if it's divorced from it's intent and meaning. The quote is no different from Buddhist teachings, or most religious teachings that teach that someone's in a better place now, to be happy that they're in God's grace, to not let their loss drag you down. This teaching is especially important to the Jedi, and we can see from RotS why: rather than Anakin accepting death as a natural, if tragic, element of life, he brings the galaxy to its knees.

 

-----signature-----
DUNE - Chronicles of the Imperium RP
http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_wars_role_playing/b10755/29433346/p1/?11
As Father and Son (An AU RP)
http://boards.theforce.net/role_playing_forum/b10328/28357048/p1/?10
Emperor Fel's badassery knows no bounds.
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
dizfactor  7826 posts
Registered: Aug '02
6896_Obi-Wan<br>LEGO
Date Posted: 2/15/07 6:58pm Subject: RE: Characters that certain authors don't get.
BobaMatt posted:
That quote is often used to make Yoda - and the Jedi in general - out to be coldhearted bastards, and we can see that that's not true, that that's not how the Jedi roll. The only way that Yoda telling Anakin to not dwell on the loss of his friend can be used as an indictment is if it's divorced from it's intent and meaning. The quote is no different from Buddhist teachings, or most religious teachings that teach that someone's in a better place now, to be happy that they're in God's grace, to not let their loss drag you down. This teaching is especially important to the Jedi, and we can see from RotS why: rather than Anakin accepting death as a natural, if tragic, element of life, he brings the galaxy to its knees.


I think Yoda's advice was technically very sound and completely accurate. However, I think his delivery was lacking. He didn't pay enough attention to Anakin's inner turmoil over this issue. I think, in the most charitable interpretation, he was used to dealing with Jedi who were raised in the Temple and have a lot of practical experience with achieving inner calm through meditation. That's never worked for Anakin, largely because his connection to the Force is so overwhelming that touching it is never really calming for him (in Rogue Planet he says something to the effect that whenever he meditates he feels like he has a sun burning inside him), and so he's never really experienced the sort of peace that other Jedi his age have been trained to access from a very young age.

As a result, Yoda's not used to giving advice to people who don't have the ability to quiet their emotional distress, and he's certainly not used to dealing with people who are churning cauldrons of fear and rage and confusion and whatever like Anakin is. If Yoda had said that to, say, Obi-Wan, it probably would have been enough to give him something to work with in his own meditations, but that's not going to work for Anakin.

Basically, Yoda was insensitive to Anakin's needs because he didn't really grasp the degree to which Anakin did not have his poodoo together.

 

-----signature-----
"Play is going to be for the 21st century what steam was to the 19th century."
Julian Dibbell
"You gotta love an elite killing force that you can fool by putting on a hat."
Gryph
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History