Charlemagne19 posted:Actually, weirdly, I always felt the Stormtrooper Core became cooler because Madine and Kyle Katarn were members of it. But a cutscene where Vader just walks up and instantly Force-dominates the SA . . . now that right there is Star Wars gold in its purest form. Then, Darth Vader is a completely crappy teacher? How would you feel if Obi Wan was able to do that to Anakin? Again, the Secret Apprentice is supposed to be THE apprentice. The guy that Vader bestowed all of his secrets but the ones that keep him the Master. But if Vader is 80% of Palpatine, I think SA is easily supposed to be 60%. I.e. He's No. 3 on the entire Dark Side chart in the Empire. Could Vader instantly own Jerec or Joruus C'Boath? No, I think not, though SA could probably beat both of them because he's the Dark Lord of the Sith that hasn't been crowned.
Havac posted: Do you really think Vader is stupid enough to teach his apprentice enough to defeat him? Did Sidious train Maul to be capable of defeating him? Vader would be a crap Sith teacher if he gave someone the means to walk all over him. He would be a great one if allowed his apprentice to learn enough to harness his awesome power but not enough to unseat him. The SA can be plenty badass, Chuck, without keeping Vader from being more badass.
Jmacq1 posted: I also forsee an inverse of the most incredibly annoying trait of pre-RotS novels and media: Whereas once we were constantly bombarded with the symbolic "Look at me, I'm gonna be Darth Vader someday!" neon sign with pretty much every story Anakin Skywalker appeared in, now we're going to get the "Look! There's still good in me somewhere!" neon signs with almost every Vader appearance that takes place between RotS and RotJ.
LtNOWIS posted:Um, I know everyone wants Vader to be extremely powerful and Sithly and all that, but what is the actual basis for it beyond our own notions of what we'd like him to be?
Charles posted: The Sith way is utterly corrupted if the Master holds anything back. The Rule of Two is teach everything while learning more. When the stronger emerges, he'll take your life.
LtNOWIS posted:Mace Windu punched a droid army to death. Palpatine did not. But Mace Windu didn't kill Palpatine.
Jmacq1 posted:Hence the reason Clone Wars is barely canon.
Jmacq1 posted:2. Vader survives, obviously, but that doesn't mean he can't be made to look weak, ineffectual, or basically get his arse handed to him in a variety of ways along the way. After all, what better sign of "redemption" than to defeat one's former Dark Side Master, then refuse to kill him? It's not like such situations haven't been a linchpin of "redemption" and "turning" scenes more than once in the movie trilogy....oh wait.
Lord_Hydronium posted:Jmacq1 posted:Hence the reason Clone Wars is barely canon. Clone Wars is completely canon.
Zorrixor posted: As they keep going on about how after FU you won't be able to imagine the PT to OT transition without it, Vader getting slapped down might somewhat make sense. I wouldn't mind seeing Palpatine find out about the SA and demonstrate beyond any doubt why he is the Master by slapping down the pair of them and reminding Vader who's boss.
Charlemagne19 posted:Lord Cronal is an old man in a mechano-chair and described as a former Jedi Master.
Jmacq1 posted:Lord_Hydronium posted:Jmacq1 posted:Hence the reason Clone Wars is barely canon. Clone Wars is completely canon. How about you refute the entire statement instead of the selective sentence? Preferably with some evidence that somehow mitigates the apparent colossal stupidity of every Force User appearing in the films. Unless of course, your opinion is that said colossal stupidity is in fact canon, and that Jedi like Yoda and Mace Windu would apparently "hold back" for no good reason when the fate of the entire Galaxy is at stake. The power levels of the Clone Wars cartoon are not supported by the films or the novelizations of said films, both of which are higher levels of canon than Clone Wars (Films superseding all, of course). Hence those power levels and feats are dubiously canon at best, outright non-canon at worst. Indeed, I may be misremembering, but I seem to recall one of the producers of the Clone Wars cartoon stating that he viewed it as the story of the Clone Wars as seen through the filter of someone telling a story to a child. The events were basically true, but the actions are "mythologized" and exaggerated beyond the "reality."
Robal_Krahl posted:Jmacq1 posted:Lord_Hydronium posted:[quote=Jmacq1]Hence the reason Clone Wars is barely canon. Clone Wars is completely canon. How about you refute the entire statement instead of the selective sentence? Preferably with some evidence that somehow mitigates the apparent colossal stupidity of every Force User appearing in the films. Unless of course, your opinion is that said colossal stupidity is in fact canon, and that Jedi like Yoda and Mace Windu would apparently "hold back" for no good reason when the fate of the entire Galaxy is at stake. The power levels of the Clone Wars cartoon are not supported by the films or the novelizations of said films, both of which are higher levels of canon than Clone Wars (Films superseding all, of course). Hence those power levels and feats are dubiously canon at best, outright non-canon at worst. Indeed, I may be misremembering, but I seem to recall one of the producers of the Clone Wars cartoon stating that he viewed it as the story of the Clone Wars as seen through the filter of someone telling a story to a child. The events were basically true, but the actions are "mythologized" and exaggerated beyond the "reality."
Jmacq1 posted:Lord_Hydronium posted:[quote=Jmacq1]Hence the reason Clone Wars is barely canon. Clone Wars is completely canon.
Lord_Hydronium posted:[quote=Jmacq1]Hence the reason Clone Wars is barely canon.
Jmacq1 posted:Indeed, I may be misremembering, but I seem to recall one of the producers of the Clone Wars cartoon stating that he viewed it as the story of the Clone Wars as seen through the filter of someone telling a story to a child. The events were basically true, but the actions are "mythologized" and exaggerated beyond the "reality."
Tasty Taste posted:if Mace Windu really could move at the speeds he could in the Clone Wars cartoons, why did he appear so slow in the Revenge of the Sith movie? TPM sets a precedent when we see Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon elude the destroyer droids. Come to think of it, what about Luke's jump from the bottom of the carbon-freezing chamber in ESB?
