Author Topic: One question about Sifo-dyas
magneto  798 posts
Registered: Feb '01
40094_Anakin
Date Posted: 2/21/07 6:38pm Subject: One question about Sifo-dyas - Date Edited: 2/21/07 6:38pm (1 edits total) Edited By: magneto
Okay so he was a precog and knew of the impending war so he travels to Kamino and places an order for an army of clones. No one knew or even had the slightest inclination except Count Dooku and Darth Sidious. And this was AFTER Sifo-dyas placed the order. My question is, how the hell did he pay for it? I'm assuming either from the Jedi Order coffers or from the Republic budget. How could NO ONE know of such a HUGE transaction? a few BILLION credits just does not go unnoticed. How did he get access to these funds without help from Sidious or Dooku? Clones are not cheap methinks.

 

Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Charlemagne19  26812 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 2/21/07 6:55pm Subject: RE: One question about Sifo-dyas
magneto posted:
Okay so he was a precog and knew of the impending war so he travels to Kamino and places an order for an army of clones. No one knew or even had the slightest inclination except Count Dooku and Darth Sidious. And this was AFTER Sifo-dyas placed the order. My question is, how the hell did he pay for it? I'm assuming either from the Jedi Order coffers or from the Republic budget. How could NO ONE know of such a HUGE transaction? a few BILLION credits just does not go unnoticed. How did he get access to these funds without help from Sidious or Dooku? Clones are not cheap methinks.


Sifo-Dyas was manipulated by Palpatine into doing it and Tyrannus was the one who paid for it (Being the Count of Serreno).

And if you doubt that, remember it was DOOKU who provided the clone template.

So it was hardly years after the fact.

 

Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Carnage04  4905 posts
Registered: Mar '05
43718_Darth Nihl
Date Posted: 2/21/07 9:08pm Subject: RE: One question about Sifo-dyas
Charlemagne19 posted:
magneto posted:
Okay so he was a precog and knew of the impending war so he travels to Kamino and places an order for an army of clones. No one knew or even had the slightest inclination except Count Dooku and Darth Sidious. And this was AFTER Sifo-dyas placed the order. My question is, how the hell did he pay for it? I'm assuming either from the Jedi Order coffers or from the Republic budget. How could NO ONE know of such a HUGE transaction? a few BILLION credits just does not go unnoticed. How did he get access to these funds without help from Sidious or Dooku? Clones are not cheap methinks.


Sifo-Dyas was manipulated by Palpatine into doing it and Tyrannus was the one who paid for it (Being the Count of Serreno).

And if you doubt that, remember it was DOOKU who provided the clone template.

So it was hardly years after the fact.



Don't you find it alarming that the Count of some relatively unknown planet could afford to purchase 3 million clone troops? If that type of thing was affordable by the leader of any halfway populated planet there would be all sorts of Clone Wars.

Carnage

 

-----signature-----
Carnage
I Finally decided to use a signature after 3500 posts!
3500 posts * 7 Characters = 24500 keystrokes wasted
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Jeff_Ferguson  1665 posts
Registered: May '06
42357_Antares Draco
Date Posted: 2/21/07 9:23pm Subject: RE: One question about Sifo-dyas
Sidious probably had some funds at his disposal. Even without being the Chancellor of the Republic. Being the Chancellor, however, and having followers such as Mas Amedda to help cover up his financial transactions might help.

 

-----signature-----
"We are Imperial Knights. We do our duty by the Emperor and by the Force—no matter the cost." --- Sigel Dare
"In the name of the true Emperor, Roan Fel, we come bearing greetings to our Jedi cousins." --- Marasiah Fel
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Carnage04  4905 posts
Registered: Mar '05
43718_Darth Nihl
Date Posted: 2/21/07 10:22pm Subject: RE: One question about Sifo-dyas
Jeff_Ferguson posted:
Sidious probably had some funds at his disposal. Even without being the Chancellor of the Republic. Being the Chancellor, however, and having followers such as Mas Amedda to help cover up his financial transactions might help.


Certainly. I'm more comfortable with Republic scale funding than Count of a planet level funding for this project.

Carnage

 

-----signature-----
Carnage
I Finally decided to use a signature after 3500 posts!
3500 posts * 7 Characters = 24500 keystrokes wasted
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
browwiw  532 posts
Registered: Jan '07
15593_Stormtrooper X
Date Posted: 2/21/07 10:26pm Subject: RE: One question about Sifo-dyas
Two Words: Slush Fund

 

-----signature-----
When a man is freed of religion, he has a better chance to live a normal and wholesome life. - Sigmund Freud
Religion is the most malevolent of all mind viruses. - Arthur C. Clarke
Beware of the man whose God is in the skies. - George Bernard Shaw
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Randy1012  708 posts
Registered: Jan '07
44112_Cade Skywalker
Date Posted: 2/21/07 10:32pm Subject: RE: One question about Sifo-dyas
Wouldn't this whole mess have been a lot less convoluted if Sifo-Dyas was an alias used by Sidious, and the Jedi had never heard of him before? Or is there something I don't know about in this story?

 

-----signature-----
What can I say? I'm a talented individual.
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Havac  14251 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 2/21/07 10:42pm Subject: RE: One question about Sifo-dyas
Charlemagne19 posted:
magneto posted:
Okay so he was a precog and knew of the impending war so he travels to Kamino and places an order for an army of clones. No one knew or even had the slightest inclination except Count Dooku and Darth Sidious. And this was AFTER Sifo-dyas placed the order. My question is, how the hell did he pay for it? I'm assuming either from the Jedi Order coffers or from the Republic budget. How could NO ONE know of such a HUGE transaction? a few BILLION credits just does not go unnoticed. How did he get access to these funds without help from Sidious or Dooku? Clones are not cheap methinks.


Sifo-Dyas was manipulated by Palpatine into doing it and Tyrannus was the one who paid for it (Being the Count of Serreno).

And if you doubt that, remember it was DOOKU who provided the clone template.

So it was hardly years after the fact.


Palpatine did it himself. Everything about Sifo-Dyas's involvement was a lie. It's sooooo blindingly obvious in LOE's subtext. I don't get why people buy Sidious's manipulations to his apprentice.

 

-----signature-----
"Is there a captain's hat involved in this?"
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
King_of_Red_Lions  729 posts
Registered: Mar '03
41081_Kuat Drive Yards Insignia
Date Posted: 2/21/07 10:44pm Subject: RE: One question about Sifo-dyas

Randy 1012 posted:
Wouldn't this whole mess have been a lot less convoluted if Sifo-Dyas was an alias used by Sidious, and the Jedi had never heard of him before? Or is there something I don't know about in this story?


I agree. That whole issue was fuzzy in the movies and never really explained there. The mystery got a lot of screen time in AOTC and then was dropped in ROTS. And the EU explanation gets really complicated. Hasn't anyone ever heard of Okham's Razor?

 

-----signature-----
Who is John Galt?
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
LordVader66  1797 posts
Registered: Aug '05
22821_Anakin Skywalker
Date Posted: 2/21/07 10:54pm Subject: RE: One question about Sifo-dyas - Date Edited: 2/21/07 11:05pm (1 edits total) Edited By: LordVader66
So where did this money come from to pay the for the clone army? A galactic army would certainly be very expensive. And Palpatine couldn't draw from Republic accounts. If Dooku funded the army himself, he would have to be one of the richest men in the galaxy, if not the richest. I doubt that the Trade Federation would have just blindly given funds to Dooku as they were paying for the whole Sep operation. Perhaps Sidious blackmailed/stole funds from various sources all over the galaxy?

P.S. How big was the clone army? AotC is ambigious. I would assume at minimum, the clone army would at least consist of several trillion soldiers, probably even more than that.

 

-----signature-----
Peace in the Middle East
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
browwiw  532 posts
Registered: Jan '07
15593_Stormtrooper X
Date Posted: 2/21/07 10:56pm Subject: RE: One question about Sifo-dyas
LordVader66 posted:
P.S. How big was the clone army? AotC is ambigious. I would assume at minium, the clone army would at least consist of several trillion soldiers, probably even more than that.


Oh, kriff, here it comes.

I might as well be the one that starts it: 3 million.

 

-----signature-----
When a man is freed of religion, he has a better chance to live a normal and wholesome life. - Sigmund Freud
Religion is the most malevolent of all mind viruses. - Arthur C. Clarke
Beware of the man whose God is in the skies. - George Bernard Shaw
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
magneto  798 posts
Registered: Feb '01
40094_Anakin
Date Posted: 2/22/07 3:03am Subject: RE: One question about Sifo-dyas
"Sifo-Dyas secretly commissioned a clone army on Kamino, ostensibly to defend the Republic. Prior to this, Dooku had left the Jedi Order, and had fallen in league with Darth Sidious. He was told by the Sith Master about Sifo-Dyas's actions, and Sidious also revealed that they could use the clone army for their own ends." - Wookiepedia

 

Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Jedimarine  4888 posts
Registered: Feb '01
48815_11 - Crimson Empire
Date Posted: 2/22/07 6:20am Subject: RE: One question about Sifo-dyas - Date Edited: 2/22/07 7:15am (1 edits total) Edited By: Jedimarine
First off...source the wook...it often lies.

Getting back to the whole "who payed for this"...I'm betting that since the order was placed by the Jedi, the Cloners did it on credit...to be paid at the completion of the order or before the troops hit the field.

Lacking other evidence, I would say that Kamino didn't see a dime until the emergency powers act allowed Palps to fomalize the army. Yoda could've brought the transaction record to the Kaminoans in AOTC. I see the Republic as being the ones who paid for it...otherwise the transactions for the purchase would've been a trail to follow to the Sith. The reason Sifo-dyas was tapped for this was because a Jedi could make this kind of order, have it done in "good faith" and not leave a trail to anything but a dead jedi.

 

-----signature-----
So Devaronian females are suppose to have thick fur, eh?
Has anyone seen one outside an essential guide?
...
When even the creative teams refuse to make fuzzy Devaronians...it should be a clue, folks.
Thus endeth the lesson.
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
BobaMatt  14519 posts
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered: Aug '02
47935_Luke Skywalker - Dark Side
Date Posted: 2/22/07 7:12am Subject: RE: One question about Sifo-dyas
Didn't see a dime? Doubtful. Their operation is expensive and labor intensive.

Anyway, three million clones, in the face of a galaxy of wealth and resources, is nothing. What I'm more concerned about is the fact that the government not only had a secret clone army in the works on an out of the way, insular world, but also heavy production contracts with high profile corporate entities for capital ships, arms, mechanized ground forces, etc.

 

-----signature-----
DUNE - Chronicles of the Imperium RP
http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_wars_role_playing/b10755/29433346/p1/?11
As Father and Son (An AU RP)
http://boards.theforce.net/role_playing_forum/b10328/28357048/p1/?10
Emperor Fel's badassery knows no bounds.
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Jedimarine  4888 posts
Registered: Feb '01
48815_11 - Crimson Empire
Date Posted: 2/22/07 7:22am Subject: RE: One question about Sifo-dyas - Date Edited: 2/22/07 7:23am (1 edits total) Edited By: Jedimarine
BobaMatt posted:
Didn't see a dime? Doubtful. Their operation is expensive and labor intensive.


Then perhaps a downpayment from Dyas? Something from the Jedi wallet that could be covered up. I still don't see the Republic getting this army gratis.

BobaMatt posted:
Anyway, three million clones, in the face of a galaxy of wealth and resources, is nothing. What I'm more concerned about is the fact that the government not only had a secret clone army in the works on an out of the way, insular world, but also heavy production contracts with high profile corporate entities for capital ships, arms, mechanized ground forces, etc.


Is this sourced or just conjecture? Do we have a source for how the vehicles and gear were ready for the clones?

 

-----signature-----
So Devaronian females are suppose to have thick fur, eh?
Has anyone seen one outside an essential guide?
...
When even the creative teams refuse to make fuzzy Devaronians...it should be a clue, folks.
Thus endeth the lesson.
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
BobaMatt  14519 posts
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered: Aug '02
47935_Luke Skywalker - Dark Side
Date Posted: 2/22/07 7:45am Subject: RE: One question about Sifo-dyas
Jedimarine posted:
BobaMatt posted:
Didn't see a dime? Doubtful. Their operation is expensive and labor intensive.


Then perhaps a downpayment from Dyas? Something from the Jedi wallet that could be covered up. I still don't see the Republic getting this army gratis.

No, they definitely didn't. However, government funds are much easier to toss around than private funds or Jedi funds. It's possible the money came from Palpatine through Dooku.
Jedimarine posted:
BobaMatt posted:
Anyway, three million clones, in the face of a galaxy of wealth and resources, is nothing. What I'm more concerned about is the fact that the government not only had a secret clone army in the works on an out of the way, insular world, but also heavy production contracts with high profile corporate entities for capital ships, arms, mechanized ground forces, etc.


Is this sourced or just conjecture? Do we have a source for how the vehicles and gear were ready for the clones?

Well we know that at the Battle of Geonosis, the army was fully outfitted with walkers, capital ship sized troop carriers armed with BDZ weapons, gunships, starfighters, weapons, tanks, gun platforms, and all of them produced by major manufacturers. There's also, apparently, cooperation between the different groups, as there appears to be a troop carrier on Kamino

 

-----signature-----
DUNE - Chronicles of the Imperium RP
http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_wars_role_playing/b10755/29433346/p1/?11
As Father and Son (An AU RP)
http://boards.theforce.net/role_playing_forum/b10328/28357048/p1/?10
Emperor Fel's badassery knows no bounds.
Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History