Author Topic: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously)
Rouge77  7450 posts
Registered: May '05
6464_Anakin Solo
Date Posted: 3/18/07 11:45am Subject: RE: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously)
I know it has been said before often, but Zonama Sekot would be probably the best place for the surviving Jedi to hide - and that DH map they released last year had Zonama Sekot placed on the map of the galaxy as it was in 130 ABY.

 

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Carnage04  4905 posts
Registered: Mar '05
43718_Darth Nihl
Date Posted: 3/18/07 10:32pm Subject: RE: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously)
Havac posted:
As of Ossus, half the Jedi Order survived. Indicators are that the Order was somewhere in the thousands.

As of Order 66, about two percent of the Jedi Order at it's pre-Clone Wars level survived. 200 out of 9000. By any measurement, it was a far more thorough and devastating purge initially. 200 versus probably 2000 is a huge difference. They aren't going to be in nearly as bad shape after seven years of persecution as the Jedi were after 20 of Palpatine's Inquisitorius either.

I think it's a safe conclusion that the Jedi aren't hurting nearly as bad as they were in their two earlier purges.



The only difference I could see is if that "Half the Jedi survived after Ossus" meant Half of the Jedi that were in existence when the war FIRST broke out, or half the Jedi that were in existence at the time of Ossus. The statement leads me to believe that it is half of the Jedi before Ossus, which could be a significantly lower number, with many dying in the actual war.

Of course, since we have absolutely no information to use as a starting point, my musing are not really helpful. wink

Carnage

 

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DarthRotten  956 posts
Registered: Aug '03
6473_Clone Emperor
Date Posted: 3/19/07 6:19pm Subject: RE: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously)
Has the number of Jedi that were active as of the beginning of the Imperial-Sith War ever been confirmed? If not, then all this is really just speculation. I imagine that Luke's order was doing pretty well as of that time what with it's less strict rules about when someone could enter the order and not being forced to give up their families.

 

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Kicker  171 posts
Registered: Mar '07
41983_Sith Symbol
Date Posted: 3/19/07 8:50pm Subject: RE: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously)
Rouge77 posted:
I know it has been said before often, but Zonama Sekot would be probably the best place for the surviving Jedi to hide - and that DH map they released last year had Zonama Sekot placed on the map of the galaxy as it was in 130 ABY.


is there anyone who has this map saved? I'd really like to see it.

 

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Havac  14246 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 3/19/07 8:56pm Subject: RE: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously)
Dark Horse can help.

 

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jfostrander  1279 posts
Title: Writer:
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Registered: Jul '01
41191_Villie
Date Posted: 3/19/07 10:12pm Subject: RE: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously)
Havac posted:
No, half the Jedi weren't even on Ossus. The other half that was there was mostly killed, though I'm sure some made it out, like Shado and Wolf.

As for the convocation, it was stated that it was dangerous for many Jedi to gather. Those four Jedi may have represented much larger groups of survivors, or they may have been the only ones willing to risk the Sith, or they may have been the only ones Sazen could find on short notice.


Those four were simply the ones that Wolf could contact -- nothing more. The Order is scattered -- which means that communications BETWEEN the Jedi is going to be difficult. Not impossible but. . .difficult.

-- John

 

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Lord_Riven  3000 posts
Registered: Nov '01
43771_Revan & Bastila
Date Posted: 3/20/07 1:22am Subject: RE: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously)
Did any Jedi 'defect' to the Imperial Knights after they lost the Imperial-Sith War (or were any of them 'converted')?

 

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BobaMatt  14519 posts
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered: Aug '02
47935_Luke Skywalker - Dark Side
Date Posted: 3/20/07 1:37am Subject: RE: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously)
Perhaps a few did, but the implication is that, by and large, they didn't. It seems a lot of Jedi seem to strongly dislike the Empire post-Ossus. I would guess more went Sith than IK.

 

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Nobody145  2147 posts
Registered: Feb '07
42495_Zayne Carrick
Date Posted: 3/20/07 2:37am Subject: RE: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously)
I'm actually somewhat disappointed that there don't seem to be any Jedi with the GA Core Forces. There could be, but considering that Admiral Stazi, who seems to be the highest ranking GA officer still free, is there you'd think they'd send any Jedi still with the GA to guard him considering how important this is (unless that isn't acutally Admiral Stazi, or there's someone ranked above him). Roan Fel's representative has some of the best Imperial Knights there (although they're there partially as a punishment, but Fel probably still has a bunch more Knights considering the entire Imperial Knights order is devoted to his family line). I presume the Jedi were close to the GA, considering the Jedi led the Ossus Project and told the GA to back/protect the Yuuzhan Vong when the Ossus Project was sabotaged, which led to the Sith-Imperial War and the fall of the GA. Though maybe that might've created friction too.

Although I can understand how, assuming Stazi barely managed to retreat from Caamas, it would be hard to gather any Jedi before disappearing to wherever the Core Forces are now. And even after that, finding any Jedi wouldn't be easy with the Sith bonties on them.

And I doubt the Jedi ever liked the IKs/Empire that much. While Luke's NJO was probably much more tolerant of splinter orders than the Old Jedi Order, a personality cult like the IKs (loyal to only one individual) wouldn't sit too well with the Jedi philosophy. They probably wouldn't hunt IKs down, but after Ossus, the Jedi no longer trust the Empire, any part of it. While some like Sia and Antares say the Ossus Massacre was against Roan Fel's orders (which it was), the fact that he wasn't able to stop it isn't exactly an impressive show of competence either. Jedi and Imperial Knights didn't get along that well in the Legacy comics shown so far, although Draco tends to be hot-headed and he was somewhat distracted by Sia.

I do hope more Jedi are introduced that aren't there just to be killed off though, unlike those other two Jedi Wolf managed to contact that ended up killed by Sith in the same issue they were introduced.

 

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BobaMatt  14519 posts
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered: Aug '02
47935_Luke Skywalker - Dark Side
Date Posted: 3/20/07 2:47am Subject: RE: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously)
Nobody145 posted:
I'm actually somewhat disappointed that there don't seem to be any Jedi with the GA Core Forces. There could be, but considering that Admiral Stazi, who seems to be the highest ranking GA officer still free, is there you'd think they'd send any Jedi still with the GA to guard him considering how important this is (unless that isn't acutally Admiral Stazi, or there's someone ranked above him). Roan Fel's representative has some of the best Imperial Knights there (although they're there partially as a punishment, but Fel probably still has a bunch more Knights considering the entire Imperial Knights order is devoted to his family line). I presume the Jedi were close to the GA, considering the Jedi led the Ossus Project and told the GA to back/protect the Yuuzhan Vong when the Ossus Project was sabotaged, which led to the Sith-Imperial War and the fall of the GA. Though maybe that might've created friction too.

Although I can understand how, assuming Stazi barely managed to retreat from Caamas, it would be hard to gather any Jedi before disappearing to wherever the Core Forces are now. And even after that, finding any Jedi wouldn't be easy with the Sith bonties on them.

Finally, someone else sees what I see.

Of course, one wonders why Jedi don't seek out the Core Forces, rather than the other way around. Strained relationship, people, I'm tellin' ya.
Nobody145 posted:
And I doubt the Jedi ever liked the IKs/Empire that much. While Luke's NJO was probably much more tolerant of splinter orders than the Old Jedi Order, a personality cult like the IKs (loyal to only one individual) wouldn't sit too well with the Jedi philosophy.

Hence, they're Gray Jedi. That doesn't mean they're rejected by the Order, though.
Nobody145 posted:
They probably wouldn't hunt IKs down, but after Ossus, the Jedi no longer trust the Empire, any part of it. While some like Sia and Antares say the Ossus Massacre was against Roan Fel's orders (which it was), the fact that he wasn't able to stop it isn't exactly an impressive show of competence either.

Not necessarily. He said "Don't do it" and they went ahead and did it. Afterwards, he wasn't in a position to punish them for it. Perhaps he should have foreseen the disobedience, however, and tried to head them off at the pass?
Nobody145 posted:
Jedi and Imperial Knights didn't get along that well in the Legacy comics shown so far, although Draco tends to be hot-headed and he was somewhat distracted by Sia.

"Not since Ossus."
Nobody145 posted:
I do hope more Jedi are introduced that aren't there just to be killed off though, unlike those other two Jedi Wolf managed to contact that ended up killed by Sith in the same issue they were introduced.

If Cade is to be a rallying point for the Jedi, and the Sith are actively hunting Jedi, and if Wolf and Shado care about uniting the Jedi...we're definitely going to see more Jedi.

 

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Grey1  1709 posts
Registered: Nov '00
8038_Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan
Date Posted: 3/20/07 4:01am Subject: RE: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously)
Ultimate Hett / Darth Krayt retcon:

Hett returned to live with the sandpeople after Ep3. The next time we see him, it's Ep4 and he tries to kill Luke. But then, all of a sudden, he hears the only thing in the world he's afraid of: A Krayt Dragon (which, of course, is only Obi-Wan).

Seeing how his fear is the only thing holding him back, Hett then becomes what he fears the most in order to instill his own fears in those who oppose him: He becomes... Kraytman! Er, Darth Krayt!

(loosely based on Batman Begins)

 

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Darth_Shpydar  1061 posts
Registered: Oct '06
40102_Anakin
Date Posted: 3/20/07 8:39am Subject: RE: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously)
BobaMatt posted:
Nobody145 posted:
And I doubt the Jedi ever liked the IKs/Empire that much. While Luke's NJO was probably much more tolerant of splinter orders than the Old Jedi Order, a personality cult like the IKs (loyal to only one individual) wouldn't sit too well with the Jedi philosophy.

Hence, they're Gray Jedi. That doesn't mean they're rejected by the Order, though.


Doesn't it though? Isn't the whole concept of the "Gray Jedi" that they've seperated themselves from the Order and have rejected its ways? I suppose there could be a difference between the "grays" rejecting the Order vs the Order rejecting the "grays". And i guess strictly speaking, the IKs/"grays" may not be so much a rejection as more of a schism (of sorts) out of desired roles in the galaxy (not unlike Luke vs Kyp in the early NJO).

 

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BobaMatt  14519 posts
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered: Aug '02
47935_Luke Skywalker - Dark Side
Date Posted: 3/20/07 8:42am Subject: RE: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously) - Date Edited: 3/20/07 8:51am (2 edits total) Edited By: BobaMatt
Gray Jedi are not non-Jedi, they're just problematic Jedi. Sure, they vary on a case by case basis, but really all it refers to is doctrinal/philosophical disagreements and a tendency to disobey the Council, but neither to the point of heresy or insubordination worthy of being cast out. Remember, issue #0 refers to IKs as "fully trained Jedi." Remember, in issue #1 Krayt refers to Fel as a Jedi. Remember, Tyvokka says some Jedi even call Qui-Gon a Gray Jedi. It's a subjective term for those individuals that are perceived to not bend to the will of the Council, or even to orthodoxy.

It can be a split as grand as that between the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Church, or it can be a rift like that between the Pope and the Jesuits.

 

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Corran_Fett  3100 posts
Registered: Jan '05
45734_Boba Fett Silhouette
Date Posted: 3/20/07 8:59am Subject: RE: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously)
Grey1 posted:
Ultimate Hett / Darth Krayt retcon:

Hett returned to live with the sandpeople after Ep3. The next time we see him, it's Ep4 and he tries to kill Luke. But then, all of a sudden, he hears the only thing in the world he's afraid of: A Krayt Dragon (which, of course, is only Obi-Wan).

Seeing how his fear is the only thing holding him back, Hett then becomes what he fears the most in order to instill his own fears in those who oppose him: He becomes... Kraytman! Er, Darth Krayt!

(loosely based on Batman Begins)

This actually does sound reasonable. Which disturbs me, I think. tongue

 

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Darth_Shpydar  1061 posts
Registered: Oct '06
40102_Anakin
Date Posted: 3/20/07 9:04am Subject: RE: Darth Krayt's Identity to be Revealed in Legacy #15 (spoilers, obviously)
BobaMatt posted:
It can be a split as grand as that between the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Church, or it can be a rift like that between the Pope and the Jesuits.


True. Without further info on (at least) the origin of the IK, we don't really know how split the IKs & Jedi Order were (pre-Ossus). For instance, did the Council (hmm, i presume there was a functioning Jedi Council, at least before the war) accept the IKs as they were, or were there Masters who viewed the IKs as "heretics" in the same way they would view members of the Potentium? Presumably, IKs have a similar/same view of the Force as the Order, and that their differences come more from what actions each deems appropriate for Jedi to engage in (again, in the Luke vs Kyp NJO sense, or even the early-NJO debates between Anakin & Jacen). I'd like to find out what the Order's view was on the IKs at the time they were formed, as well as whether that opinion changed over time.

 

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