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Author Topic: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not?
EJA 
Registered: Apr '07
Date Posted: 4/27/07 2:40pm Subject: RE: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not?
Okay, after searching through Wookieepedia, I've come across some examples of the Old Corellian language that are extremely interesting in their strong resemblance to English terms. Bear in mind, this is supposed to be the original Old Corellian (or, more correctly, Olys Corellisi), rather than anything translated:

Bhiq = back

Contemplanys = meditative/contemplative

Ehin = in

Fho = For

Khoehng = king

Oblivyn = nothing/oblivion

Nyiad = Need

Gylif = life


These are just a few of the examples of Olys Corellisi, which the article suggests influenced the development of Basic in the GFFA. To me, this is a very strong indication that some form of recognisable English exists in SW. And what about my theory that it's down to some agency (the Whills?) seeding the languages of various cultures in the GFFA with Earth terms, anticipating the whole SW saga eventually coming to Earth? I think it's worth considering.

 
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QuentinGeorge  4759 posts
Registered: Dec '03
48582_Kaan (60609)
Date Posted: 4/27/07 3:12pm Subject: RE: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not?
Why do you assume Olys Corellian is not also translated?

 

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Yar
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SuperWatto  5872 posts
Registered: Sep '00
45743_Azzameen Crest
Date Posted: 4/27/07 3:31pm Subject: RE: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not?
Rogue posted:
I would argue that, though. In a galaxy that has had hyperspace travel for tens of thousands of years (even as of KotOR), the language probably wouldn't change as much as our English has changed from, say, the 1500s. Standardization of communication is key in a pan-galactic society, and Basic is that standardization. Yes, it probably has changed and adapted, but I don't think it'd be that much.


A language that doesn't change is a dead language. Greek, Latin, they don't change no more. But in a galaxy with thousands upon thousands of societies that intermingle, blend, and trade, NO WAY that their common language will stay the same. I mean, you can only have a French government for so long. The nature of things is to evolve. What EJA said in his first post - about the GFFA being a fictional universe, dominated by the principle of realism - invalidates all his suggestions to make Basic into English. Because the principle of realism must encompass the bottom line of nature's law: all things change.

 

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000  4729 posts
Registered: Oct '05
41423_Stormtrooper
Date Posted: 4/27/07 3:49pm Subject: RE: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not? - Date Edited: 4/27/07 3:50pm (1 edits total) Edited By: 000
Rogue_Follower posted:
Or we could just agree with 000 and conclude that Voren is a moron. tongue

Damn straight. frustrated

 
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Rogue_Follower  8535 posts
Title: Manager:
• Lit
 Registered: Nov '03
6468_Blackhole
Date Posted: 4/27/07 3:53pm Subject: RE: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not?
I agree with you that its historically accurate, but I'm not sure how well our history applies to the GFFA. They've had interplanetary travel for longer than Earth has had recorded history. I'll agree Basic has probably evolved, but I don't think its changed as much over time as real languages do. Similarly, I doubt the GFFA metric system has changed for tens of thousands of years, despite many different alien cultures having their own systems of measurements. Basic supercedes other languages once a culture makes contact, it does not assimilate. Its a standard, and standards are not supposed to change.

 
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SuperWatto  5872 posts
Registered: Sep '00
45743_Azzameen Crest
Date Posted: 4/27/07 4:02pm Subject: RE: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not?
It's not applying our history to the GFFA, it's applying natural law...
But perhaps natural law already frowns upon the fact that the GFFA didn't develop a single bit in four thousand years.

But, like I said, you can't tell a language to stop changing just because you think it's not supposed to, just because it's a standard. That's not the way languages work. Languages are added to on a daily basis when spoken by many. If it didn't work like that, there would be no word for, say, duracrete.

 

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QuentinGeorge  4759 posts
Registered: Dec '03
48582_Kaan (60609)
Date Posted: 4/27/07 4:35pm Subject: RE: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not?
Have common words and pronouns in Galactic Basic changed for thousands of years? No. But you can bet your sweet bippy that it has assimilated hundreds of thousands of alien terms, and that slang and the like is continually evolving.

 

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Yar
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darth_paul  6673 posts
Registered: Apr '00
19072_Khaleen and Quinlan Vos
Date Posted: 4/27/07 5:25pm Subject: RE: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not?
Personal opinion: Not only is Basic not English, but the human characters in Star Wars aren't human! Or even humanoid. The "recognizeability" of humans, humanoids, and species with human characteristics are a part of the fictional structure to help the audience connect better with the material, but in the "real" Star Wars universe, none of it is true.

-Paul

 

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000  4729 posts
Registered: Oct '05
41423_Stormtrooper
Date Posted: 4/27/07 5:30pm Subject: RE: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not?

 
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Ris_jSarek  2541 posts
Registered: Feb '05
18187_Z-95 Headhunter
Date Posted: 4/27/07 9:33pm Subject: RE: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not? - Date Edited: 4/27/07 9:57pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Ris_jSarek
GrandAdmiralJello posted:
jSarek: Aurebush only spells out English words in TPM and onward--in the OT, the words on the screen were simply gibberish--as they were meant to be.


Thanks to the DVD editions being the final word, that is no longer true. The tractor beam controls in ANH and R2's dialogue in ESB also now spell out English terms in Aurebesh.

EDIT: I could've sworn they'd changed R2's writing into Aurebesh, but it doesn't show up in the Episode V List of Changes, so I guess I was mistaken. Nonetheless, the tractor beam stands.

GrandAdmiralJello posted:
Your statement that Basic is English violates a fundamental rule of SW canon--Earth doesn't exist.


There is no such rule. In fact, the very existence of "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" only makes sense if there *is* an Earth for that statement to relate to.

GrandAdmiralJello posted:
Therefore, English doesn't either. It is absolutely and positively impossible for them to be speaking English, no matter how many coincidences or similarities you can find.


It is just as absolutely impossible for humans to spontaneously evolve in another galaxy.

GrandAdmiralJello posted:
Answer: Suspension of disbelief and principle of parsimony.


Principle of parsimony is a good guideline. It is *never* the final word.

SuperWatto posted:
EJA... Though I admire your determination... happy let it go. It's simply impossible. No language stays the same for a long period of time. As such, KOTOR Basic and movie Basic cannot be the same language. So it just has to be a transcription.


Given how little their technology, culture, and ideas change in that same timeframe, I see no reason that their language can't be just as unrealistically static.

RogueWompRat posted:
It can't be English. That's impossible.


Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

QuentinGeorge posted:
Why do you assume Olys Corellian is not also translated?


And what sense would that make?

SuperWatto posted:
It's not applying our history to the GFFA, it's applying natural law...
But perhaps natural law already frowns upon the fact that the GFFA didn't develop a single bit in four thousand years.


Amen. This is something important that people need to understand - STAR WARS DOES NOT WORK LIKE THE REAL WORLD. There are a plethora of things that bend or break natural law, from habitable Core Worlds, to single-biome planets, to superluminal travel, to hyperpowerful weapon energy densities, to visible-in-space energy weaponry, to fighter-style spaceflight, to ultrastatic culture and linguistics. It's a good idea to apply the laws of nature where possible, because it's also not completely *unlike* our world, but when Star Wars breaks the rules, it breaks the rules.

darth_paul posted:
Personal opinion: Not only is Basic not English, but the human characters in Star Wars aren't human! Or even humanoid. The "recognizeability" of humans, humanoids, and species with human characteristics are a part of the fictional structure to help the audience connect better with the material, but in the "real" Star Wars universe, none of it is true.

-Paul


None of it is true, period. It solely exists as a fictional structure. You're of course welcome to believe otherwise in your conception of Star Wars, but I think it's just as reasonable a stance to take as "the truth" that which is presented to us - and more conducive to effective discussion.

 

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Havac  14250 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
 Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 4/27/07 9:49pm Subject: RE: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not?
It's Tolkien-style translation. Which means that, for all intents and purposes, it's the same thing as having it be English, with the bonus that it makes logical sense. Everyone wins.

 

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browwiw  532 posts
Registered: Jan '07
15593_Stormtrooper X
Date Posted: 4/27/07 9:54pm Subject: RE: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not?
Then how do we rationalize Latin and French phrases in the GFFA. Personally, I just write them off as throwbacks to archaic forms of Basic.

 

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Ris_jSarek  2541 posts
Registered: Feb '05
18187_Z-95 Headhunter
Date Posted: 4/27/07 10:00pm Subject: RE: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not?
browwiw posted:
Then how do we rationalize Latin and French phrases in the GFFA. Personally, I just write them off as throwbacks to archaic forms of Basic.


Same here. I've always figured Latin was archaic Kuati (hence the use of Latin names for their big ships) and that Greek was the ancient language of the Cygnus system (hence their regular use of greek letters for their shuttles and gunboats), and that Basic borrowed heavily from them.

 

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EJA 
Registered: Apr '07
Date Posted: 4/28/07 2:16am Subject: RE: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not?
I can't believe nobody's considered my own theory!!

 
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EJA 
Registered: Apr '07
Date Posted: 4/28/07 2:32am Subject: RE: Galactic Basic Standard = English or not?
So if it's all just translated into English, Talon Karrde's ship probably isn't called the "Wild Karrde" as such a pun would not exist? Is Talon's name translated as well? And all the X-Wings, B-Wings, Y-Wings, etc are also translations from Basic letters? "Coruscant" isn't really a planet name? And C-3PO and R2-D2 are actually NOT C-3PO and R2-D2, as the numbers and letters that form their names are translated?

Oh, and in answer to another poster's question, Olys Corellisi cannot be translated because it's supposed to be UN-translated and in the original. That's why it's called Olys Corellisi. So there's still those words to contemplate.

My point is, it can't all be translated, as it would disrupt too much, IMHO. Hence my theory.

 
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