QuentinGeorge posted:And in my opinion, Qui-Gon was a self-righteous hippy with a bad haircut who should have damn well listened to his padawan and left that slave kid right where he found him.
AnnLouise posted:QuentinGeorge posted:And in my opinion, Qui-Gon was a self-righteous hippy with a bad haircut who should have damn well listened to his padawan and left that slave kid right where he found him. Amen to that! Especially regarding the haircut.
Darth_Lex posted:Sabrajaguar posted:Any where outside of a fighter craft Jacen should demolish her. Totally wrong. Your examples, by the way, just prove my point. Jacen is not a warrior. At best, he's a spy - or assassin. He relies on stealth, treachery, and cunning - not brute strength. The simple fact that he draws on the dark side, and intends to use Force lightning, in the duel with Aurra Sing proves that combat techniques are not his forte - because they are a sign of desperation and panic. If he were actually skilled in combat, he wouldn't need to fall back on Force tricks to beat her. And you're wrong about Jaina's role outside the cockpit. She leads a massive ground battle on Tenupe in TSW. She leads the kidnap operation in Coronet in Betrayal. She and Zekk escape long odds at the Ducha's palace in Tempest. And in Exile we see her - conspicuously, I might add - practicing her saber techniques with Zekk. She is far from just a fighter pilot; she is a formidable soldier as well. Jaina is a professional, all-around warrior. Jacen is not. And why did I say conspicuously practicing her saber techniques? Because there's a subtle thread in Tempest and Exile about Jacen's relative weakness in that regard. For one, Jacen can't beat Aurra Sing in a straight saber duel. He has to use Force techniques, and needs help from a four year old to win. More notable is the repeated references that Ben is not as skilled with a lightsaber as he should be. The accidental slicing of Zekk on the Falcon should never have happened, if Ben had adequate training. At the beginning of Exile, Ben has a lightsaber training session with Luke. Why? Because he admits he needs work. He then trains alone, when he meets Seha. While he's on his mission to retrieve the amulet, Ben also muses about his lack of sophistication with the lightsaber. Now, why would that be? Because Jacen is his master, and Jacen isn't focused on combat techniques. Jacen teaches Ben what he thinks is important for Ben to learn. If he considered saber technique important, he'd teach it. But he hasn't. Which fits exactly with what I said above - Jacen does not rely on straight up combat. (By comparison, do you seriously think any apprentice of Jaina's wouldn't be fully trained with a lightsaber?) In a Yoda-Sidious in the Senate chamber style Force duel, Jacen could win. In a Kenobi-Vader on Mustafar style duel, Jaina wins. For another reason, too. Even if Jacen is "stronger" in combined talent (Force skills plus combat prowess) - which I don't think he is (Jaina is weaker in Force skill but stronger in combat prowess) - the "stronger" Jedi/Sith does not always win. Obi-Wan Kenobi kills two Sith Lords, and by all rights he was the weaker party both times. Both Maul and ROTS Vader allowed their arrogance and overconfidence to cloud their judgment, and got sliced up because of it. At this point in LOTF, Jacen Solo has many of the same Sith traits, including arrogance and overconfidence in his own power. It only takes one slip for a Jedi as powerful as Jaina to beat him...
Sabrajaguar posted:Any where outside of a fighter craft Jacen should demolish her.
Darth_Lex posted: Your examples, by the way, just prove my point. Jacen is not a warrior. At best, he's a spy - or assassin. He relies on stealth, treachery, and cunning - not brute strength. The simple fact that he draws on the dark side, and intends to use Force lightning, in the duel with Aurra Sing proves that combat techniques are not his forte - because they are a sign of desperation and panic. If he were actually skilled in combat, he wouldn't need to fall back on Force tricks to beat her.
Darth_Lex posted: And you're wrong about Jaina's role outside the cockpit. She leads a massive ground battle on Tenupe in TSW. She leads the kidnap operation in Coronet in Betrayal. She and Zekk escape long odds at the Ducha's palace in Tempest. And in Exile we see her - conspicuously, I might add - practicing her saber techniques with Zekk. She is far from just a fighter pilot; she is a formidable soldier as well.
Darth_Lex posted: Jaina is a professional, all-around warrior. Jacen is not..
Darth_Lex posted: And why did I say conspicuously practicing her saber techniques? Because there's a subtle thread in Tempest and Exile about Jacen's relative weakness in that regard. For one, Jacen can't beat Aurra Sing in a straight saber duel. He has to use Force techniques, and needs help from a four year old to win. More notable is the repeated references that Ben is not as skilled with a lightsaber as he should be. The accidental slicing of Zekk on the Falcon should never have happened, if Ben had adequate training. At the beginning of Exile, Ben has a lightsaber training session with Luke. Why? Because he admits he needs work. He then trains alone, when he meets Seha. While he's on his mission to retrieve the amulet, Ben also muses about his lack of sophistication with the lightsaber. Now, why would that be? Because Jacen is his master, and Jacen isn't focused on combat techniques. Jacen teaches Ben what he thinks is important for Ben to learn. If he considered saber technique important, he'd teach it. But he hasn't. Which fits exactly with what I said above - Jacen does not rely on straight up combat. (By comparison, do you seriously think any apprentice of Jaina's wouldn't be fully trained with a lightsaber?)
Darth_Lex posted: In a Yoda-Sidious in the Senate chamber style Force duel, Jacen could win. In a Kenobi-Vader on Mustafar style duel, Jaina wins. For another reason, too. Even if Jacen is "stronger" in combined talent (Force skills plus combat prowess) - which I don't think he is (Jaina is weaker in Force skill but stronger in combat prowess) - the "stronger" Jedi/Sith does not always win. Obi-Wan Kenobi kills two Sith Lords, and by all rights he was the weaker party both times. Both Maul and ROTS Vader allowed their arrogance and overconfidence to cloud their judgment, and got sliced up because of it. At this point in LOTF, Jacen Solo has many of the same Sith traits, including arrogance and overconfidence in his own power. It only takes one slip for a Jedi as powerful as Jaina to beat him...
sabrajaguar posted: A kidnap that fails utterly. real impresive.
jainasolo2001 posted:I find the lack of spoilers disturbing.
Darth-Ghost posted:Let's start to speculate on what will happen in the books BESIDES the "sacrifice?" Like...uh...can anyone think of anything else we know is going to happen in this book?