Jedi Council Forums - Trakata is now canon, believe it

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Author	Topic: Trakata is now canon, believe it
BobaMatt Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 5/29/07 12:34pm Subject: RE: Trakata is now canon, believe it
	So...it's not a saber form so much as a technique? That's not so bad, I guess. -----signature----- DUNE - Chronicles of the Imperium RP http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_wars_role_playing/b10755/29433346/p1/?11 As Father and Son (An AU RP) http://boards.theforce.net/role_playing_forum/b10328/28357048/p1/?10 Emperor Fel's badassery knows no bounds.
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RogueWompRat Registered: Feb '03	Date Posted: 5/29/07 3:00pm Subject: RE: Trakata is now canon, believe it
	Thrawn McEwok posted: It also seems that RotS:ICS canonized a couple of things that Saxton had cited at SWTC, apparently not realising they were fanon: the "Imperator-class" designation and the Unification Wars... I bet that big, bad Saxton's getting published has reeeeaaaallly got you peeved, huh? -----signature----- "the Force is between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere..."
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Thrawn McEwok Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 5/29/07 3:19pm Subject: RE: Trakata is now canon, believe it - Date Edited: 5/29/07 3:35pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Thrawn McEwok
	RogueWompRat posted: I bet that big, bad Saxton's getting published has reeeeaaaallly got you peeved, huh? I have no problem with Dr. Saxton becoming a canon author. Good on him! I'll point out, analytically, where he misidentified fanon as official material, and where he made speculative statements based on fan-theories that were untenable in the light of canon - both in ICS and in his official work. I'll argue, rationally and calmly, that from the POV of Star Wars continuity, some of these were mistakes that shouldn't have been made. But I assume he made these mistakes honestly, and laying any "blame" on anyone would be a very complicated matter. So, do I grudge him his success? Why should I? - The Imperial Ewok -----signature----- A/T = OTP :===8[#]8===: Kyp/Jaina fans: stand up and be counted!
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ATimson Registered: Nov '03	Date Posted: 5/29/07 3:49pm Subject: RE: Trakata is now canon, believe it
	Thrawn McEwok posted: According to Wookieepedia, DL:TRoDV came out on November 22, 2005; RotS:ICS appeared on April 2, 2005...? So... no? Wookieepedia could be wrong, though. Anyone? It's right in this case. Which makes sense if you think about it--that the book about the movie would come out at the same time as the movie, and that the sequel would come out later? -----signature----- "Actually, VIPs are more important [than other users]." --The2ndQuest It's nice to know that those who make the board possible matter. If someone other than me edited this, please don't attribute anything in it to me in quotes. It's not mine anymore.
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Wrinty Registered: Apr '07	Date Posted: 5/29/07 6:05pm Subject: RE: Trakata is now canon, believe it
	So you guys aren't upset about the subject matter, but the precedent it might set. Fans making their own canon doesn't sound good.
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RogueWompRat Registered: Feb '03	Date Posted: 5/29/07 7:20pm Subject: RE: Trakata is now canon, believe it
	Rogue_Follower posted: Say you're fighting a Not Nice Bad Guy in a lightsaber duel. He lunges at you and you turn your 'saber off at the exact right moment so that he overextends himself and falls right into your lightsaber hilt... which you then turn back on. Or you just walk into battle and turn your saber on... when the hilt is pointing at his chin. That sort of thing. Oh, that's what it is? Why did it need a name? Lightsaber "forms" are the lamest idea ever. -----signature----- "the Force is between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere..."
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blackmyron Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 5/30/07 12:51am Subject: RE: Trakata is now canon, believe it
	Wrinty posted: So you guys aren't upset about the subject matter, but the precedent it might set. Fans making their own canon doesn't sound good. Not exactly. Fans have always, and will always make "fanon", and some of it can be entertaining, thoughtful, well-written, etc. etc. Sometimes ideas are picked up by authors who like them, or sometimes fans themselves become official writers and end up creating canon. That's not the issue. The issue is that a small group of people believe their interpretation of Star Wars is the "correct" one and struggle to get the official canon stamp, so that future authors will know how to "correctly" do Star Wars. The objection to this is that others (see sig) are more of the inclusive type, whereas these fans would rather dump and bury certain portions current canonicity, whether it be a certain media type (i.e. RPGs), or a particular hated author (i.e... well, you can probably guess this). For a while they've tried to rules-lawyer LFL representatives into accepting various "truths", but have been thwarted by the existence of the Holocron, an official database used by SW authors and unavailable to the public, making it impossible to do a quick "Ministry of Truth" sweep through it to purge it of disrecognized canon. The alternate has, unfortunately been Wookiepedia - a fine idea to create a Star Wars database, marred by its usage as a propaganda tool by certain members (one, in fact, blatantly states so in his bio page there). Ultimately, though, there's little to worry about overall (as I see it) - there's plenty of people in the RPG or book biz to look and say "no, the statement that X is a Y is an interpretation by someone who wrote the Wookie article, not a canonical fact". The surer path would be to directly interact with authors here, but the track record of the, shall we say, more fanatical fans to sway them has not been encouraging. The only real dissapointment out of all of this is that they will concentrate even more on turning Wookiepedia into a propaganda mill in a futile bid at some sort of "canon supremacy". Which is a real shame, as it really could shine as a true online encyclopedia for Star Wars information... -----signature----- Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Come on Dave, you're taking this stuff too seriously." - George Lucas "Reality can rarely be explained without contradictions." - Karnak
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jacenskylo Registered: Feb '06	Date Posted: 5/30/07 1:09am Subject: RE: Trakata is now canon, believe it - Date Edited: 5/30/07 1:31am (1 edits total) Edited By: jacenskylo
	Wrinty posted: Can soeone please tell me what in the world is Trakata. I mean like describe it for me. Thanks. I was wondering the same thing -----signature----- "We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home" Edward R. Murrow "People shouldn't be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people" V "Awww shutup and shoot something" Cade Skywalker
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DarthNidLoc Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 5/30/07 6:39am Subject: RE: Trakata is now canon, believe it
	MarcusP2 posted: Yeah, weren't his recollections of lava crawling up his spine or something in one of the OT novels? Yeah, one of the last pages of the ROTJ novelization when in which we get Anakins perspective of the conversation between him and luke on the ramp of the Lambda shuttle just before he dies. -----signature----- Luke Skywalkers three rules for raising a son. 1. You can cut your own head off with a lightsaber if you are not careful 2. Girls are fun but dangerous 3. Uncle lando always has a card up his sleeve
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Sikon Registered: Mar '06	Date Posted: 5/30/07 6:42am Subject: RE: Trakata is now canon, believe it - Date Edited: 5/30/07 6:45am (1 edits total) Edited By: Sikon
	blackmyron posted: The alternate has, unfortunately been Wookiepedia - a fine idea to create a Star Wars database, marred by its usage as a propaganda tool by certain members (one, in fact, blatantly states so in his bio page there). Who, and why am I not aware of this? If someone pushes fanon, POV and original research into Wookieepedia, they should be punished. Also, please provide some actual, concrete examples of Wookieepedia articles that you see as propaganda and fanon-pushing. -----signature----- http://lucidfox.org http://qdb.lucidfox.org - TFN/Wookieepedia quotes Revan is the heart of the Force? What kind of lame power is heart anyway?
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Sirius_Scott Registered: Jan '07	Date Posted: 5/30/07 8:00am Subject: RE: Trakata is now canon, believe it
	Bad example, because its already been flagged, but there's a good sized article on Chad Vader in Wookie -----signature----- Whatever you're about to ask, the answer's 42. GADZOOKS!!! P&S rocks!
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BobaMatt Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 5/30/07 8:24am Subject: RE: Trakata is now canon, believe it
	^ But that's just an article on a fan film. It says it's a fan film, not canon, in the article, and the only reason it had an article is because it's a popular internet fad. -----signature----- DUNE - Chronicles of the Imperium RP http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_wars_role_playing/b10755/29433346/p1/?11 As Father and Son (An AU RP) http://boards.theforce.net/role_playing_forum/b10328/28357048/p1/?10 Emperor Fel's badassery knows no bounds.
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blackmyron Registered: Oct '05	Date Posted: 5/30/07 7:17pm Subject: RE: Trakata is now canon, believe it
	Sikon posted: Who, and why am I not aware of this? I'm sure you're aware of some of the people - from what I've read, you just slapped down one for foul language a few months ago, but at least he changed his "I hate [this particular Wookie editor] with all my soul" bio. The particular fellow I refer to in the previous post has a bio that reads like a religious testament, promising to promulgate the true nature of Star Wars along with the almost-cliche-now dislike of sources like X (i.e. WEG) and like Y (i.e. that "certain author" as some like to say not-so-coyly here). Sikon posted: If someone pushes fanon, POV and original research into Wookieepedia, they should be punished. Give them some credit. They aren't noobs trying to slip in entire articles about their fan fiction heroes or home-made images of starships. See below. Also, please provide some actual, concrete examples of Wookieepedia articles that you see as propaganda and fanon-pushing.[/quote] Let's pull out a fan-favorite and take a look at the article for "Super Star Destroyer": Now let's assume that I've only watched the movies and I'm looking for more information about these ships. What interesting facts are in the article? The Executor was the first ship called a Super Star Destroyer. The first one is a little nitpicky, but the "Rebel slang" included a whole range of types that existed before the Executor. Probably chalk this one up to confusion - a better photo caption would be 'the most well-known Super Star Destroyer" or something similar. Imperial-class vessels are downscaled battleships that only lead in relatively "calm" sectors but are literal "destroyers" when involved in major campaigns where larger vessels dominate. Gosh, what possible agenda could this serve? Never mind that this has little to do with "Super Star Destroyers"... Death Stars were conjecturally regional command centers, while the SSDs were sector-level command bases. Nice re-wording of an old source, a WEG one to boot. The implication is that the Death Stars - of which only two were built, we all know - was supposed to be regional command centers. Whereas the sector-level command bases were, in fact, all SSDs meaning at least 1000 of them floating about. Star Cruisers were built by the hundreds or thousands. A bizarre statement. Where is the source? Is this just a useless guess? Why not say "anywhere between 10 and a million were built"? The Executor-class is a true battleship of the SW universe.Take that, minimalists! Battlegroups based around SSDs were not uncommon during the Empire's height.Sigh. "When you assume..." The reason Executor Sedriss used an ISD as his flagship at Balmorra instead of the tons of SSDs in the Empire at the time was because Palpatine was paranoid and didn't want to spare any of them. The Allegiance in Dark Empire is a Gauntlet Star Cruiser, a known type of SSD. A long-standing pet-peeve of mine. Almost-kudos for labelling the name as pure speculation on its own page, but you wouldn't know that from reading the SSD page, would you? (And from reading the "Gauntlet[sic] Star Cruiser" page, you'd think that only the name was speculative...) People have an expectation when they read an encyclopedia, that what appears is factual unless labelled otherwise. Speculation is being presented as factual. Interpretations are done and not presented as such. Discussions in the talkbacks end up with the refusal to even discuss the matter further, with an air of outright hostility that certainly reduced my interest in contributing anything to nil. We've seen mention before that they want SW authors to use Wookie as a resource in place of other ones (that they can't edit or even check to verify it's "truthiness" to their satisfaction) - now with this whole "trakata" thing, they're probably going to go into shock. "Just think - we can get WOTC to put Gauntlet Star Cruiser in print and make it official!" Wookie is an excellent tool for finding sources - I've used it many, many times - but I wouldn't trust a single sentence unless I can see the statement source for myself. -----signature----- Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Come on Dave, you're taking this stuff too seriously." - George Lucas "Reality can rarely be explained without contradictions." - Karnak
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dp4m Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 5/30/07 8:53pm Subject: RE: Trakata is now canon, believe it
	myron -- I want to have your babies. Seriously. In a hetero-lifemate sort of way, of course. -----signature----- "Looks like you're about to get pwned" - Eric Cartman "Awarding experience points for cleverly and creatively generating an enjoyable experience. How warped is that?" - Darths & Droids
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LtNOWIS Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 5/30/07 10:58pm Subject: RE: Trakata is now canon, believe it
	99.9% of our articles are completely non-controversial; POV is not an issue on those articles, because there's no agenda anybody wants to push. Even for the SSD article, the statements you pulled out are just a small part of a long article. Also, the article has extensive internal citations. If you don't like a statement, feel free check the source yourself. -----signature----- A little bit about me: http://tinyurl.com/bnmcck
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