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Topic:
What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
6/18 10:37pm
Subject:
RE: What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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There are many that could claim the title of laughing stock of the Sith. Palps isn't one of them, in my opinion.
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blackmyron
Registered:
Oct '05
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Date Posted:
6/18 10:39pm
Subject:
RE: What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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rumsmuggler posted:
There are many that could claim the title of laughing stock of the Sith. Palps isn't one of them, in my opinion.
I agree, which is why I find the reduction of Palpatine to a comic-book villian in DE to be one of the many things wrong with it.
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CountJared
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
6/18 10:43pm
Subject:
RE: What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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Dark Empire was awesome. Dark Empire 2 and Empire's End were significantly less so. But even DE2 had some good elements, namely the assortment of Dark Jedi to fight. I always felt Luke needed his own Dark Forces 2 set of villains to do battle with. Not to mention the cool tech introduced like the Shadowdroids and the Basilisk War Droids, and the Dark Side alchemical creations. Dark Empire 2 though flawed in its execution had some great story elements that we don't see enough of in the EU. Empire's End on the other hand is just a travesty of art and story telling.
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
6/19 12:18am
Subject:
RE: What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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DE and its sequels had the World Devestators and huge war droids slugging it out with mutant rancors and cool new planets and cults of evil Sith monks and amazing art and these things were very good. It also resurrected Palpatine, which was very bad.
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SuperWatto
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
6/19 1:57am
Subject:
RE: What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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diz posted:
DE and its sequels had the World Devestators and huge war droids slugging it out with mutant rancors and cool new planets and cults of evil Sith monks and amazing art and these things were very good. It also resurrected Palpatine, which was very bad.
QF karkin' T!
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sithreaper
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
6/19 2:41am
Subject:
RE: What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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The bad.
Force storms.
It annuls the chosen one prophecy.
The duels where disappointing.
I wasn’t keen on the art.
Palpatine been reborn at all.
The good
Luke & Leia are portrayed brilliantly in terms of power.
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DarthBoba
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
6/19 12:00pm
Subject:
RE: What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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Well, I don't think you can really blame Veitch for not knowing plot points for movies that weren't even being made when he was writing Dark Empire..:p
One of the things I like best about DE is just how many new toys it gave us to play with. Shadow Droids, World Devastators (still the best "terror weapon" imo; what's more terrifying than watching your entire planet being consumed?) the Eclipse (which deserves a movie screen IMO) the Balmorran war droids, a couple new kinds of starfighter..it was definitely taking a whack at saga-type imagination.
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
6/19 1:00pm
Subject:
RE: What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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DarthBoba posted:
One of the things I like best about DE is just how many new toys it gave us to play with. Shadow Droids, World Devastators (still the best "terror weapon" imo; what's more terrifying than watching your entire planet being consumed?) the Eclipse (which deserves a movie screen IMO) the Balmorran war droids, a couple new kinds of starfighter..it was definitely taking a whack at saga-type imagination.
I love that about DE. The way I think about is that in the OT, practically every scene had something new we hadn't seen before - new vehicle, new planet, new alien species - and to me, it always felt like if there were 30 more scenes, you'd see 30+ new things. I feel like Zahn primarily just mined the stuff from the OT, which is why it feels so bland and dry, whereas DE kept up crazy levels of innovation, which is why it feels intuitively more like SW.
The Force Storms were over the top for me, and the Galaxy Gun takes some of the dramatic punch out of superweapons - it doesn't even have to travel to the system to blow up the planet? Weak! But, overall, I loved the barrage of new stuff and the baroque atmosphere of DE.
The plot was horrrrrrrrrrrible, though.
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"You gotta love an elite killing force that you can fool by putting on a hat."
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
6/19 3:22pm
Subject:
RE: What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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sithreaper posted:
It annuls the chosen one prophecy.
I am so tired of reading this and any other sentence like it when DE was published 1991-1992 and likely written 1990 (work started earlier than that even), years before the PT existed in any concrete form!
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
6/19 3:50pm
Subject:
RE: What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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indeed.
-----signature-----
" Conan, what's best in life?" " Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women."
W.W.L.D. What Would Lando Do
"Why is the rum always gone?"
Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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SuperWatto
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
6/19 3:54pm
Subject:
RE: What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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Nonetheless, Ben, it rendered the whole Vader arc rather pointless.
That whole prophecy stuff might give this sentiment a focal point, but the sentiment sure existed before the prequels.
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Adam_Bosman
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
6/19 4:18pm
Subject:
RE: What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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Some of you are truly delusional to give DE the story weight that you are.
Dark Nest makes a disclaimer (don't remember which book or page), that the clone emperor was merely a shell of the true Palpatine...not the true Palpatine. A shadow is how I like to think of him. We know the clones were sabotaged, and the reborn Emperor was probably significantly weaker than the real Emperor.
The only poor part of this theory is various EU elements that claim Palpatine had gone through the process before DE, which has not been proven.
Also, Luke did not turn to the dark side, and was well aware of what was going on. He chose to learn the dark side to defeat Palpatine, and realized by the end that the method wouldn't work. It's the same reason Yoda broke off the fight at the end of RotS, which was because the fighting was fueling Palpatines power. I assume the same happened with Luke, and by the end he figured it out. At that point Leia and Han show up.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
6/19 4:26pm
Subject:
RE: What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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SuperWatto posted:
Nonetheless, Ben, it rendered the whole Vader arc rather pointless.
How so? The main point is that Vader turned good at the end. The Emperor returning to life doesn't change that.
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
6/19 6:15pm
Subject:
RE: What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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Folks trying to downplay Dark Empire annoy me sometimes
-----signature-----
" Conan, what's best in life?" " Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women."
W.W.L.D. What Would Lando Do
"Why is the rum always gone?"
Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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_Catherine_
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
6/19 6:44pm
Subject:
RE: What are your thoughts on Dark Empire?
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Adam_Bosman posted:
Dark Nest makes a disclaimer (don't remember which book or page), that the clone emperor was merely a shell of the true Palpatine...not the true Palpatine.
I think Mara tried claiming that once, as well. She, too, was wrong. 
posted:
The only poor part of this theory is various EU elements that claim Palpatine had gone through the process before DE, which has not been proven.
I can't decide how I feel about this part of the story. There's not really any reason for him to lie to Luke about having died before, and some parts of canon (that one Missions book and I think one of Abel's articles... The Emperor's Pawns?) actually work better if that is the case... but a small part of me still wants his first death to have been at Vader's hands on the Death Star.
I guess it could go either way and I wouldn't be particularly bothered.
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