Jedi Council Forums - Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?

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Author	Topic: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?
Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 7/30/07 3:08am Subject: RE: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?
	Furyan_Jedi_13 posted: But at the same time, the EU fans want Luke to step out of the way so that newer characters like Jaina, Ben, and so on will truly be given a chance to shine, and they tend to say that Luke has to die for that to truly take off. But a part of me thinks that they are just going for the easy way. I mean, if you were an author, and you wanted to get rid of a character permanently, you could just kill them off, couldn't you? And I think fans are simply gravitating towards this, without realising that other characters can still have their time to shine without all of the big shots getting killed off. I used to think the argument had merit, but for the life of me, I think the vast amount of media out there has proven them wrong. How exactly will Ben and Jacen have a chance to "shine" with Luke dead? What exactly is holding the characters back in these stories by their presence? We've had PLENTY of EU stories at this point about non-Heroes of Yavin. We've had Corran Horn and his lengthy book series, we've had Kir Kanos with his two comic books, Darth Bane has his two books, the Knights of the Old Republic series, currently the Rebellion and Dark Times serials. There was the KOTOR video games and Kyle Katarns Book series + Video games. The Brat Pack had their YJK series. The results of this were the fact that lots of these characters developed followings. Kyle Katarn and Corran Horn plus the Brat Fans are amongst the most vocal. I'm sad to say I didn't go into the Mara Jade fanclub to see how they reacted to her death because she's the original EU character that had a fanbase of her own. What it boils down to is all of these characters HAD their chance to shine but for various reasons, didn't bring in the same kind of attention and cash as the HoY. It's not that I don't get the Awesomeness of Corran Horn. I do. However, unless you get a time machine. Hire JK Rowling off her cramped apartment. Convince her to write Ben Skywalker getting a lightning bolt scar on his head, attend a Jedi Academy, and defeat a Sith Lord who harasses him through seven books then you're not going to get any level of similar name recognition as something they do A&E specials on. Star Wars has been on the cover of Time Magazine as much (in fact moreso) than probably any one President of the United States save Kennedy. Note, very few of those are Prequel images either. Frickin Obi Wan Kenobi and Anakin were the only one to get a successful children's series. Do I find it ridiculous that Luke, Leia, and Han are in their sixties and still acting like it's the 1970s? Yes, yes, I do. In fact, I embrace the silliness by pretending Luke is played by Pierce Brosnen and they've hired new Actors to play him and his family just like James Bond. It's why there's nothing wrong with him remarrying because he's still in his mid-to-late twenties like Spiderman. We could go back and tell stories about them in the fight against the Empire forever but no one seems to want to do that and carry forward the timeline for new heroes. New heroes who I remind you grow up in the lap of luxury as the children of existing heroes with the fame of their parents. Let's face it, the New Republic Royalty of existing heroes do not make good protagonists. Cade has a chance to shine and Zayne Carrick but do I think for a moment any of them are going to be MORE famous than Luke or even approach it? Hell no!
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StaryKnight Registered: Nov '06	Date Posted: 7/30/07 5:42pm Subject: RE: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die? - Date Edited: 7/30/07 5:43pm (1 edits total) Edited By: StaryKnight
	Charlemagne19 posted: [quote=Furyan_Jedi_13]But at the same time, the EU fans want Luke to step out of the way so that newer characters like Jaina, Ben, and so on will truly be given a chance to shine, and they tend to say that Luke has to die for that to truly take off. But a part of me thinks that they are just going for the easy way. I mean, if you were an author, and you wanted to get rid of a character permanently, you could just kill them off, couldn't you? And I think fans are simply gravitating towards this, without realising that other characters can still have their time to shine without all of the big shots getting killed off. I used to think the argument had merit, but for the life of me, I think the vast amount of media out there has proven them wrong. How exactly will Ben and Jacen have a chance to "shine" with Luke dead? What exactly is holding the characters back in these stories by their presence? I'll answer those questions with three simple words: "They won't" and "Nothing". We've had PLENTY of EU stories at this point about non-Heroes of Yavin. We've had Corran Horn and his lengthy book series, we've had Kir Kanos with his two comic books, Darth Bane has his two books, the Knights of the Old Republic series, currently the Rebellion and Dark Times serials. There was the KOTOR video games and Kyle Katarns Book series + Video games. The Brat Pack had their YJK series. I wasn't even aware that Corran and Kir had their own stories untill about a year ago. Darth Bane was an evil turd and I don't like reading stories that have evil turds as the main protagonists. I enjoy reading the OR and Rebellion stories occasionally but only because I know that everything works out for the good guys come ROTJ. I don't even bother with the DT series because you virtually get the same type of story in Legacy and I haven't played a SW video game since the Phantom Menace came out. I did however like the YJK series but it lost its positive feel when I found out what became of the Solo kids in NJO and despite his popularity amongst some people I hardly consider Kyle Katarn a character. I'm sad to say I didn't go into the Mara Jade fanclub to see how they reacted to her death because she's the original EU character that had a fanbase of her own. What it boils down to is all of these characters HAD their chance to shine but for various reasons, didn't bring in the same kind of attention and cash as the HoY. It's not that I don't get the Awesomeness of Corran Horn. I do. Can you name some of those reasons or did I already do that? However, unless you get a time machine. Hire JK Rowling off her cramped apartment. Convince her to write Ben Skywalker getting a lightning bolt scar on his head, attend a Jedi Academy, and defeat a Sith Lord who harasses him through seven books then you're not going to get any level of similar name recognition as something they do A&E specials on. If we did that Harry Potter might not exist and we can't have that can we? Star Wars has been on the cover of Time Magazine as much (in fact moreso) than probably any one President of the United States save Kennedy. Note, very few of those are Prequel images either. You are correct sir!!!! Frickin Obi Wan Kenobi and Anakin were the only one to get a successful children's series. And now their both dead. Anything we read about them has to be set in the past and the majority of stories are set in the future so not much there. Do I find it ridiculous that Luke, Leia, and Han are in their sixties and still acting like it's the 1970s? Yes, yes, I do. I don't. I say if the original JSA heroes can be active in their sixties then why can't the greatest space opera heroes of all time? We could go back and tell stories about them in the fight against the Empire forever but no one seems to want to do that and carry forward the timeline for new heroes. New heroes who I remind you grow up in the lap of luxury as the children of existing heroes with the fame of their parents. Let's face it, the New Republic Royalty of existing heroes do not make good protagonists. We do go back to the past quite often but its the future we pay attention to the most. So what do you propose they do? If we don't have any one who can carry the franchise when the Big 3 kick it then what do you do. I've got an idea or two but lets here yours first.
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 7/30/07 6:16pm Subject: RE: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?
	StaryKnight posted: We do go back to the past quite often but its the future we pay attention to the most. So what do you propose they do? If we don't have any one who can carry the franchise when the Big 3 kick it then what do you do. I've got an idea or two but lets here yours first. You pretty much summarized most of my feelings Starry Knight Well, if George Lucas suddenly went crazy and said "Charlemagne19 is in charge of the EU" then I'd probably handle it like this. + Go back to the Bantam Style of Small Events: Trilogies, Standalone novels, and the like starring Luke and the rest of HOY. Unlike Allegiance, they will genuinely star the characters. If Allegiance had been billed as a Mara Jade novel I'd have had far less problem with it. + Make New Jedi Apprentice: A series of Young Adult novels starring Ben Skywalker under the tutelage of Luke Skywalker, possibly by Jude Watson. + New Republic: A Comic book set during the New Republic era so we can get everyone's favorite characters with ample time, even though its clear Luke and company will be the star of it. + Knights of the New Republic: Instead of a KOTOR game, we have one starring Luke Skywalker during the era immediately after Endor. We'll have the fun of introducing lots of EU elements to a new audience while also providing the fun Dark Side ending option. None of the kids would disappear but we'd stop trying to shoe horn them in and make them supporting characters.
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Dawud786 Registered: Dec '06	Date Posted: 7/30/07 7:50pm Subject: RE: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?
	You know, they have to be smart... realize they've already wasted the potential of the Solo twins because none of us truly finds their ONE major adventure, the NJO, all that satisfying. Their character development just didn't captivate most fans to the extent that their parents do. They continue that with Dark Nest, and take it to the Nth degree with LOTF. So far Jaina's barely even a bit player though she's supposedly going to play a major role in the closing chapters of the story. I'll believe that when I see it. Regardless, to make her the big hero Sword of the Jedi they've basically just abandoned her character and turned her into a 32 year old teenager fretting over who she wants to date. "Jedi or fighter jock, I can't decide!" Ben's got potential, but they don't seem to know what to do with him. LFL needs to take a look at the success of Legacy and see this one thing... the best way to advance the timeline is to NOT fill in the gaps between LOTF and Legacy and just give us Skywalker descendents in time periods seperate enough from their forebearers to make it sensible. Want to give Luke & Co a rest? Don't kill 'em, just let their exploits stand as they are. They are a peice of galactic history now for Cade, after his story's done he becomes history and Luke is a legend. Eventually a mythic figure for Skywalkers and Jedi and galactic citizens alike a thousand years or so in the future. That's how I'd handle it. Ghostly visitations a must, of course. The only way I'd go along with filler between LOTF and Legacy is the return to a Bantam approach... one shots, and trilogies that don't revolve around galaxy shattering events. Save that stuff for major major apocolyptic events like the Saga does. Clone Wars, Galactic Civil War. Want to tell some adventures of Ben Skywalker? Give the kid run of the mill Jedi adventures that were the bread and butter of Old Republic Jedi before Sidious' rise to power. Ben's big galaxy crisis crucible for his becoming a Jedi should be contained solely in LOTF. This crisis should be the end of all such major events in the galaxy until the Sith-Imperial War. There's plenty of pirates and illicit drug trafficing going on in the GFFA for the Jedi to do some serious work where the GA/Republic can't get into. -----signature----- http://blogs.starwars.com/slaveoftheforce
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 7/30/07 8:08pm Subject: RE: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?
	Dawud786 LFL needs to take a look at the success of Legacy and see this one thing... the best way to advance the timeline is to NOT fill in the gaps between LOTF and Legacy and just give us Skywalker descendents in time periods seperate enough from their forebearers to make it sensible. Want to give Luke & Co a rest? Don't kill 'em, just let their exploits stand as they are. They are a peice of galactic history now for Cade, after his story's done he becomes history and Luke is a legend. Eventually a mythic figure for Skywalkers and Jedi and galactic citizens alike a thousand years or so in the future. That's how I'd handle it. Ghostly visitations a must, of course. I agree with this. Unfortunately, I've also heard rumors that they're planning another series after LotF. The only way I'd go along with filler between LOTF and Legacy is the return to a Bantam approach... one shots, and trilogies that don't revolve around galaxy shattering events. Save that stuff for major major apocolyptic events like the Saga does. Want to tell some adventures of Ben Skywalker? Give the kid run of the mill Jedi adventures that were the bread and butter of Old Republic Jedi before Sidious' rise to power. Ben's big galaxy crisis crucible for his becoming a Jedi should be contained solely in LOTF. This crisis should be the end of all such major events in the galaxy until the Sith-Imperial War. There's plenty of pirates and illicit drug trafficing going on in the GFFA for the Jedi to do some serious work where the GA/Republic can't get into. Again, I agree. Or the Jedi can resolve smaller conflicts or explore more of the Unknown regions or something. Anything other than yet another galaxy-wide conflict. The heroes deserve to achieve at least a short period of relative peace. If they keep having major galactic conflicts. the OT heroes will be total failures.
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Whizkid Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 7/30/07 8:16pm Subject: RE: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?
	I predict that we will see more self-contained stories following LotF unless Jacen survives as a Sith. -----signature----- "Only a Sith deals in Absolutes" "Do, or do not. There is no try"
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StaryKnight Registered: Nov '06	Date Posted: 7/30/07 8:28pm Subject: RE: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?
	You all bring up alot of good points. Basically I've come to the conclusion that some people want Luke and the other HoY to die because they either are just tired of them(a case that is easily cured by not reading future material and concentrating on prequel stuff) or they think it will solve a development problem with newer characters which to me is just silly and from what I see many of you think so to.
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dizfactor Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 7/30/07 8:50pm Subject: RE: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?
	RK_Striker_JK_5 posted: Havac posted: Charlemagne19 posted: [quote=RK_Striker_JK_5] And it's a shame about both Alex and Tenel Ka... although I think Tenel Ka's a thousand times better than Alex. But neither could hold the fan's imagination. Yes, well you hold the mythical copy of YJK written by An underrated author Fixed. Now it's fixed.[/quote] Until the day they drag KJA and his wife out into the street and pelt them with poo, they are overrated, not underrated. -----signature----- "Play is going to be for the 21st century what steam was to the 19th century." Julian Dibbell "You gotta love an elite killing force that you can fool by putting on a hat." Gryph
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Dawud786 Registered: Dec '06	Date Posted: 7/30/07 9:14pm Subject: RE: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?
	ChildOfWinds posted: Dawud786 LFL needs to take a look at the success of Legacy and see this one thing... the best way to advance the timeline is to NOT fill in the gaps between LOTF and Legacy and just give us Skywalker descendents in time periods seperate enough from their forebearers to make it sensible. Want to give Luke & Co a rest? Don't kill 'em, just let their exploits stand as they are. They are a peice of galactic history now for Cade, after his story's done he becomes history and Luke is a legend. Eventually a mythic figure for Skywalkers and Jedi and galactic citizens alike a thousand years or so in the future. That's how I'd handle it. Ghostly visitations a must, of course. I agree with this. Unfortunately, I've also heard rumors that they're planning another series after LotF. The only way I'd go along with filler between LOTF and Legacy is the return to a Bantam approach... one shots, and trilogies that don't revolve around galaxy shattering events. Save that stuff for major major apocolyptic events like the Saga does. Want to tell some adventures of Ben Skywalker? Give the kid run of the mill Jedi adventures that were the bread and butter of Old Republic Jedi before Sidious' rise to power. Ben's big galaxy crisis crucible for his becoming a Jedi should be contained solely in LOTF. This crisis should be the end of all such major events in the galaxy until the Sith-Imperial War. There's plenty of pirates and illicit drug trafficing going on in the GFFA for the Jedi to do some serious work where the GA/Republic can't get into. Again, I agree. Or the Jedi can resolve smaller conflicts or explore more of the Unknown regions or something. Anything other than yet another galaxy-wide conflict. The heroes deserve to achieve at least a short period of relative peace. If they keep having major galactic conflicts. the OT heroes will be total failures. It certainly loses that fairy tale and mythic quality when these characters have major battle after major battle after major battle. It's an attempt at "realism" that also lacks any realism what-so-ever. How many worldwide conflicts have there been in the last century on Earth? How many heroes from WWI went on to be heroes in WWII? How many from WWII went on to be heroes in any war after that with the exception of Korea? We could easily look at the timeframe between the CW and the GCW and compare that with the timeframe between WWI and II and then look at the first Gulf war and we aren't going to see any veteran heroes from WWII in that war. And we can't honestly say we've had anything with nearly the worldwide importance since WWII. The so-called "War on Terror"(or whatever name the administration is currently using) has been hyped to be along the same lines, but it's clearly not even remotely the same. You don't even have surviving generals from WWII playing a role in what's going on now. It's just losing credibility and plausibility to make things like they are. I mean, you've got Troy Denning justifying the transparent and contrived weakening of Luke's powers and wisdom in any given situation by saying they don't want to take him out of the realm of plausibility and into the realm of superheroism and yet they've packed his life with almost as much adventure Superman. C'mon, we are smarter than that and we know there's got to be authors that can give us foils for Luke Skywalker without these contrived means of weakening his ability with the Force and his perception in it. The Yuuzhan Vong are actually a really good example of this... I find Luke's reaction and questioning of his entire worldview that he'd developed over the course of his Jedi career completely plausible, the only problem I had with how they used Luke in the NJO was what's plaguing him in LOTF: inaction because of his doubts. That's not the Luke Skywalker of the OT, and it's not the Luke Skywalker of the Bantam days either. -----signature----- http://blogs.starwars.com/slaveoftheforce
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StaryKnight Registered: Nov '06	Date Posted: 7/30/07 11:37pm Subject: RE: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?
	Well, they killed his wife so maybye that will be enough motivation for him.
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 7/30/07 11:49pm Subject: RE: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?
	We could easily look at the timeframe between the CW and the GCW and compare that with the timeframe between WWI and II and then look at the first Gulf war and we aren't going to see any veteran heroes from WWII in that war. And we can't honestly say we've had anything with nearly the worldwide importance since WWII. I don't know, plenty of World war 1 veteran were involved in World War 2.
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StaryKnight Registered: Nov '06	Date Posted: 7/31/07 12:25am Subject: RE: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?
	Yeah, but thats besides the point.
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 7/31/07 1:00am Subject: RE: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?
	I think my general point is that Luke Skywalker was a 18 year old during the Galactic Civil War and Leia Organa was similiarly aged at the start. The characters fought and won the war on the trenches. The NJO had the characters gradually switch to the role of being commanders and the Gray Cadre of it. I.e. just like if we'd seen the Prequels in a rational manner we'd have had people on the ground show up as officers in the Rebel Alliance and Imperial hierarchy (only Jan Dodonna and Pellaeon did really). In universe, I think the point is that Luke is a professional superhero. Most sane individuals retire after a single war or tour of duty because they've "done their time" and no longer want to be exposed to the horrors of war. When dealing with Star Wars heroes, you're dealing with at least one individual who had her entire planet executed but didn't break down. You'll pretty much have Luke pulled off a ditch somewhere in his 120s when his heart finally gives out, protecting some orphans.
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patchworkz7 Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 7/31/07 1:11am Subject: RE: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?
	Charlemagne19 posted: In universe, I think the point is that Luke is a professional superhero. Most sane individuals retire after a single war or tour of duty because they've "done their time" and no longer want to be exposed to the horrors of war. I don't know that it's a sense of sanity as much as a sense of duty. Luke has always been aware that if he didn't guide the Jedi, someone else would, and there's no telling what would happen. The same with Leia taking on so many roles, she sacrificed a lot to get the New Republic going and damned is she's going to let anyone mismanage it while it's still in the birth process. -----signature----- Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house Now in German and Polish Editions! James A Gilmer
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StaryKnight Registered: Nov '06	Date Posted: 7/31/07 2:03am Subject: RE: Why do people want Luke Skywalker to die?
	Charlemagne19 posted: You'll pretty much have Luke pulled off a ditch somewhere in his 120s when his heart finally gives out, protecting some orphans. And do you consider that a bad thing, cause some people do? Not alot though.
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