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Author	Topic: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
Carnage04 Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 10/20/07 10:16pm Subject: RE: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	I was slightly underwhelmed. I don't know what I was expecting really...it just seemed a little dull. I guess I wasn't expecting a great deal of the book to be based on the events of ANH. Yeah, a new piece of insight here and there was nice. The best parts had to be the Death Star Gunner parts. Really really interesting to see what frame of mind he was in. The Visored helmets in the films kept us from seeing any subtle emotions on their faces. That and anything with Vader. The "Inside his head" perspectives do add depth to his already deep character without undermining his badassery. -----signature----- Carnage I Finally decided to use a signature after 3500 posts! 3500 posts * 7 Characters = 24500 keystrokes wasted
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Thrawn McEwok Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 10/21/07 3:48am Subject: RE: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	1.) Complete plans smuggled from Darkknell? Fine by me. The automatic explanation is that Voren was wrong to downplay the Darkknell plans... and that the Rebels had the complete plans from that point on. Everything else was just misdirection. Two questions: a.) does this ties down the date of "Encounter at Darkknell" at all - or tie in with the implied date based on Moranda's age in HoT2... b.) Is he Darkknell plan now supposed to be the one that Leia has in Ep.IV? Because that really wouldn't work. 2.) "At this point, it almost seems like creating conflicting Death Star theft plans is done intentionally, as a kind of running joke." - TalonCard ... "almost"? 3.) "What in the hell was that whole Daala-injury thing about, as I don't recall any flaws in her memory in "later" sources -- answer: still no clue." - dp4m She's a Padmé clone. Isn't that obvious from her name? 4.) Lieutenant/Lieutenant Commander "Lieutenant" is also the verbal address for the rank of Flight Officer, but Wookieepedia tells me that Dance is a TIE pilot - I'd be interested to know what his actual role is, and also to know where the 1st/2nd Lts. appear... 5.) Bast as a General? A black-and-white sketch of Bast is identified as "Colonel (Operations Chief)" in The Death Star Technical Manual, but General Tagge, in the same series of pictures, is shown with the same rank-insignia arrangement (six pips on his chest plaque, one cylinder at each shoulder), rather than the one he has in the movie (two cylinders at the left shoulder). So, there's already a precedent here with Tagge for a General's insignia with the same arrangement as Bast wears in the movie. The implication is that during the Death Star project, Bast was promoted up from Colonel to General, and Tagge was given some sort of promotion, while retaining their roles as Operations Chief and overall Army commander aboard the Death Star. 6.) Tanbris' role I was under the impression that Tanbris was the non-flying executive officer of Black Squadron. Maybe just fanon inferred from his starfighter/Vader connections? 7. Gunners' ranks Gunnery personnel have been given "Army" style ranks before, so that's not a problem. 8.) Khurgee as a lieutenant? And, Bast as an "operations lieutenant" at the end? Well, at least he's in operations... Whose POV is this, in both scenes? Can we retcon Khurgee as a mistake? And if it's Tarkin with Bast at the end, perhaps he isn't paying much attention, and he thinks it's one of Bast's clones, rather than the man himself? 9.) Black-uniformed troopers? I think that these were originally "Death Star Troopers", before they appeared more widely in the Navy. If there is a specific Navy connection, we can compare the statement that COMPNOR has its own stormtrooper cadres in Allegiance: perhaps they're actually stormtroopers pretending not to be stormtroopers? 10.) Superlaser firepower? I'd be interested to know what the specific quotes are here... - The Imperial Ewok -----signature----- A/T = OTP :===8[#]8===: Kyp/Jaina fans: stand up and be counted!
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PadmeA_Panties Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 10/21/07 6:54am Subject: RE: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed) - Date Edited: 10/21/07 6:56am (1 edits total) Edited By: PadmeA_Panties
	According to the CCG (SW:CCG), Bast is Chief Bast, and Tagge is General Tagg, and Motti is Admiral Motti. EDIT: Also according to the CCG, Tanbris is a Lt. and Khurgee is a Captain. -----signature----- Come visit my MiniCity: <a href=http://rypcordia.myminicity.com/> Rypcordia</a>
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colojedi7 Registered: Mar '07	Date Posted: 10/21/07 8:28am Subject: RE: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	I just finished Death Star and I must say I loved it.Some are complaining it moved too slowly, but I found it fascinating to learn the background of characters on the battle station. I also loved the feel of the book. I could swear I was watching a New Hope during the reading of the novel. Seeing bits and pieces of the movie while going into the background was wonderful. I especially loved the Obi-Wan parts with Vader. How Vader was really scared when Obi vanished. Loved the whole thing. Great Job!
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Rogue_Follower Title: Manager: • Lit Registered: Nov '03	Date Posted: 10/21/07 9:43am Subject: RE: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed) - Date Edited: 10/21/07 9:44am (2 edits total) Edited By: Rogue_Follower
	Thrawn McEwok posted: 3.) "What in the hell was that whole Daala-injury thing about, as I don't recall any flaws in her memory in "later" sources -- answer: still no clue." - dp4m She's a Padmé clone. Isn't that obvious from her name? ... "Amy Daala"? This would explain a lot.
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TalonCard Title: •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff Registered: Jan '01	Date Posted: 10/21/07 10:51am Subject: RE: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	>Two questions: a.) does this ties down the date of "Encounter at Darkknell" at all - or tie in with the implied date based on Moranda's age in HoT2...< Darkknell would now take place after the end of Dark Forces: Soldier for the Empire, but before the Toprawa scenes in the Radio Drama--just a few weeks before ANH, in other words. >b.) Is he Darkknell plan now supposed to be the one that Leia has in Ep.IV? Because that really wouldn't work.< Yes, sort of. The idea is that the librarian transmitted a set of plans off the Death Star for later study, hiding them in a file on Danuta, where he used to work. This is supposed to be how the plans came to be there for Kyle to steal. This has several problems. #1: The Dark Forces novels and the Dark Forces saga articles established Danuta as one of the Death Star design sites--that's supposed to be why the plans were there. At the very least, Tarkin shouldn't have been surprised that there were plans at the site. Having the librarian transmit plans here is just redundant. #2: Furthermore; we're given no indication as to how the Rebels would have learned the plans were there in this senario. The librarian doesn't seem to have tipped them off, the plans were encrypted so that no one else could access them, and they now have no reason to be there. #3: The Darkknell datapacks were supposed to have been brought directly from Despayre by a blonde defector. Under this senario, the data only technically comes from Despayre (since it was sent by a librarian, but no one actually seems aware of this) and the defector would have had to pick the plans up from Kyle and Jan (?) or else he's actually Kyle Katarn in disquise. (This might actually work.) #4: At some point following the Darkknell story, the data would have had to be smuggled to the Toprawa system. Soldier for the Empire already established that the plans Kyle stole were only one part of a whole, and had to be combined with plans stolen from an Imperial convoy near Toprawa. The Death Star novel doesn't actually mention any of this, but it at least saves us from having to reconcile the Imperial convoy story with the above mess. So not only did the authors not actually fix anything with their name-dropping Death Star planathon, their senario doesn't make any sense on its own, and contradicts the very sources they were trying to reference. The other Death Star plan thefts (Empire at War, Battlefront II, Lethal Alliance, X-Wing) aren't even addressed, which is probably a good thing. TC -----signature----- Death in the Slave Pits: http://www.starwars.com/hyperspace/fiction/feature20090531/index.html GODV Guide: www.myuselessknowledge.com/swfa/main.html Hyperspace Blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/taloncard
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Senator_Cilghal Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 10/21/07 3:01pm Subject: RE: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	TC: regardless of what rank Bast's insignia was meant to indicate (and it is hard to imagine it being a lieutenant, since it looks nothing like canonically-IDed Lieutenant insignia), Bast wears the same insignia at the Conference as he does on the overbridge, and it cannot be both a General insignia AND a lieutenant insignia. Now, we might be looking at two different individuals if we allow for clone templates, but they must both hold the same rank to both have that insignia. I got to thinking on this. Maybe "operations chief" can be retconned as not indicating the actual RANK lieutenant. Lieutenant can have a somewhat looser meaning as "2nd-in-command" or "assistant." For example, Anakin is Obi-Wan's "1st Lt" in Jabiim because he is second in command, although his technical rank is Padawan Commander. Also, Guri and the Vigos are Xizor's "lieutenants" even though they hold no military rank at all. Perhaps "operations lieutenant" only means "2nd-in-command of operations" (1st in command assumedly being Tagge, and 3rd in command being Motti, based on their newly-revealed ranking order). BTW, some people have put on Wookieepedia Stihl's rank is "guard sergeant." I disagre. My read on the Dramatis Personae is that it means he is an Imperial Marines guard who is a sergeant. His rank seems to actually be "senior sergeant" in the book. While I think a Bast-clone might be a good idea to explain the HS appearance, I don't like the idea of a Bast clone serving alongside the real Bast on the DS1 with the same rank. That would be very confusing to subordinates, having two superior officers they couldn't tell apart. Also, if there were two Basts of the same rank on DS, we would expect them both to be at the DS conference. Also, how did either of them survive the DS1 blowing up? The book made it quite clear trying to escape the DS1 would be considered desertion by Vader, and be considered betrayal from his POV. Its hard to imagine an officer deserting the DS1 and being in Vader's good graces in the HS! Along that same line of logic, I think it is hard to imagine Veers being in Vader's good graces if he had deserted the DS, and Veers definitely is in Vader's good graces afterwards. Thus, I think Veers didn't "escape off the DS1" (deliberately). He must have already been in that shuttle for some reason...perhaps coming TO the DS1 (as some have suggested) or leaving it per some valid orders. The book also refers to an "assault commander." This may be Daine Jir or it may be the armored stormtrooper commander aboard the Tantive IV, I am not sure. The book is not always clear on whether it is talking about the armored commander, Jir, or Praji, since it never refers to any of them by name, simply as the Commander." McEwok: I think your idea of Bast and Tagge getting promoted from Colonels is plausible, but I don't own the DSTC so I don't know exactly what pics you are referring to. Is the DSTC supposed to have been written by a Rebel? If so, consider this: Rebels probably didn't get many pics of personnel ON the DS. It is possible the most recent images of Tagge and Bast the Rebels had to include in a manual were images taken BEFORE Tagge and Bast were assigned to the DS1, possibly quite outdated, and the images may represent them before they were even assigned to the DS1. Just a thought. It is plausible they were Colonels at SOME point. Indeed, since Motti refers to "your [Tagge's] starfleet," I have long assumed Tagge may have had a fairly long military career, first as a Fleet officer, then retiring, and (perhaps when the Alliance was formed), been recommissioned as an Army officer. Its not without some precedent: Dallin was in the Republic Army then later part of the Navy, and Dodonna was a Republic Fleet officer but in the Starfighter Corps when he joined the Rebellion. The Empire may be somewhat flexible in "switching" branches of service, more than we have reason to know. If anything, this book would seem to support that, seeing how in less than a year Stihl goes from being an Army Trooper to a Navy Trooper to a Stormtrooper;) -----signature----- Include Me in the C & C Mon Cal Jedi Master Compassionate Healer/Amphibious Banshee Author of an "Abeltastic" article that won a MOO award Life-term Fleet Junkie with a Silver FindersFee Waru-class Award
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Jango_Fettish Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 10/21/07 6:42pm Subject: RE: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	I'm waiting to buy this book in paper back, as the whole idea of it does not particularly excite me too much. That said though, I was flipping through it at Borders and it does seem like a pretty good book. I couldn't help but read the whole Vader/Obi-Wan chapter - it was pretty darn awesome. That chapter is exactly what everyone talks about with the numerous threads we get on wanting the Original Trilogy re-novelized. It adds a lot of depth to the scene and fleshes it out with Vader thinking back to Mustafar. It is a great example of what an entire book like that could be like.
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TalonCard Title: •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff Registered: Jan '01	Date Posted: 10/21/07 10:27pm Subject: RE: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	I don't think the whole rank insignia thing should be too problematic...didn't everyone in some of the other movies wear the same insignia no matter what rank they held? >Also, how did either of them survive the DS1 blowing up?< See, that would be the reason we need a Bast clone. The Death Star conference action figure pack says that he escaped the Death Star's explosion, referring to his appearance in the Holiday Special. Unfortunately, no one noticed until after that was approved that Bast is actually standing behind Tarkin in the final moments before the station is destroyed--there would have been no time for him to escape. >The book made it quite clear trying to escape the DS1 would be considered desertion by Vader, and be considered betrayal from his POV. Its hard to imagine an officer deserting the DS1 and being in Vader's good graces in the HS!< I think that Vader would have taken into account the fact that the Rebels had actually managed to blow the thing up. Bast's desertion wouldn't have been a betrayal; merely a practical assessment of Tarkin's hubris. TC -----signature----- Death in the Slave Pits: http://www.starwars.com/hyperspace/fiction/feature20090531/index.html GODV Guide: www.myuselessknowledge.com/swfa/main.html Hyperspace Blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/taloncard
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Senator_Cilghal Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 10/21/07 11:06pm Subject: RE: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	actually, TC, no, that is common misperception, there is more than one type of rank badge in ROTJ, though at least some characters do have wrong ones. but that is a mistake. We don't want to confound that by making it WORSE. ANH and ESB are generally pretty good about distinct ranks and badges (Although Decipher sometimes messed things up). We shouldn't just ignore them to allow for our own fan theories. Insignia DO have meaning--JAT is quite adamant on that. So, yes, it IS a big deal. Errors should not be seen as invitations to make more errors, that only compounds the problem. I have no problem with a Bast clone to explain HS; I personally think that theory is vvery much in keeping with the idea of "clone templates." My problem is just with Basts of different tank having the same insignia. Plausible idea: There was only one Bast on DS. He died. However, a clone of him was in HS, and most people didn't realize he was a clone, leading to a popular misconception Bast escaped the DS. Perhaps the Empire even deliberately tried to pass him off as such. Recall the Empire's explanation that Tarkin and staff died in an "accident": the Bast clone could strengthen that claim if passed off as an "accident survivor." ? Is anyone in the military> I would like to know if my earlier suggestion for a loose usage of "operations lieutenant" could have any real-world precedent. -----signature----- Include Me in the C & C Mon Cal Jedi Master Compassionate Healer/Amphibious Banshee Author of an "Abeltastic" article that won a MOO award Life-term Fleet Junkie with a Silver FindersFee Waru-class Award
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TalonCard Title: •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff Registered: Jan '01	Date Posted: 10/22/07 11:19am Subject: RE: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	>Plausible idea: There was only one Bast on DS. He died. However, a clone of him was in HS, and most people didn't realize he was a clone, leading to a popular misconception Bast escaped the DS. Perhaps the Empire even deliberately tried to pass him off as such. Recall the Empire's explanation that Tarkin and staff died in an "accident": the Bast clone could strengthen that claim if passed off as an "accident survivor." ?< That's not a bad idea. Alternately, Bast could have swapped rank plaques with one of his clones in the final moments of the battle so that no one would notice that he was gone. TC -----signature----- Death in the Slave Pits: http://www.starwars.com/hyperspace/fiction/feature20090531/index.html GODV Guide: www.myuselessknowledge.com/swfa/main.html Hyperspace Blog: http://blogs.starwars.com/taloncard
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The2ndQuest Title: Manager: -Literature -LACWAC -Games Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 10/22/07 1:38pm Subject: RE: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	Bast would certainly be quite a jerk to himself, in that scenario. -----signature----- "When your future self tells you to do something, YOU DO IT." K'Kruhk, 140 ABY:"Why haven't I come forth earlier to share my Jedi knowledge with Skywalker? Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
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Dark Lady Mara Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 10/23/07 2:26am Subject: RE: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	Comma splice on the first friggin' page of the book. -----signature----- "Sci Fi has been associated with geeks and dysfunctional, antisocial boys in their basements with video games and stuff like that, as opposed to... the female audience." ~~ SPOILER-FREE TILLLL EPISODE IV "there aren't that many Ls in til." - farraday
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Excellence Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 10/23/07 3:16am Subject: RE: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	They won't get away with this. Thunderbirds: go. So what is the book actually like? Does it have an ongoing storyline, or is it just povs during the movie time? Did this book merit purpose; was the intrigue really intrigue? -----signature----- Rock-a-by baby, on the treetop, Beaming with pride, the filth they hold, But when the wind blows, my temper implodes, High above a pit, filled with sharkticons, Down will come hardcover addicts, beaming no more. ©
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harrison13 Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 10/23/07 8:47am Subject: RE: The Official Death Star Novel Thread (Spoilers Allowed)
	are there any prequels references or at least a feel? -----signature----- " Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the GUN!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtnWMDkhvsQ
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