| Author |
Topic:
Republic Commando: Order 66
|
Havac
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered:
Sep '05
|
Date Posted:
10/28/07 1:06pm
Subject:
RE: Republic Commando 4 - Order 66?
|
|
I'm not sure it's even established Tigellinus wasn't a military genius. He definitely preferred politics and didn't do a heck of a lot militarily, but I don't think there's anything to say he couldn't do well if he wanted to. As Wallace once said, when they wrote these they took it for granted the Grand Admirals were military geniuses; they were interested in exploring the rest of their personalities. That's why the articles tend to play up their non-fleet-tactics activities and interests.
-----signature-----
"Have you not yet learned, Executor, that everything I tell you is the truth?" - Vergere
Recipient of Thrawn McEwok's Sexually Ambiguous Tusken Raider™ and a Special Golden Ewok™
"Reality doesn't care if you believe it." - Boba Fett
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
Emperor
• EUC
• JCC
Registered:
Nov '00
|
Date Posted:
10/28/07 2:56pm
Subject:
RE: Republic Commando 4 - Order 66?
|
Tigellinus is almost certainly comparable to the rest. There's no indication that he was a toady like Il-Raz, but rather, his immense influence at Court speaks of something beyond mere charm and charisma.
As for Teshik, the point is not that he failed to catch Far Orbit but that he failed to catch the frigate in a timely enough fashion. Regardless, he survived his suicide mission into Hapan territory and he survived taking on the entire Rebel fleet with his single ship despite the immense odds in both cases. To me, that makes me wonder if Thrawn really is the best of the lot or not.
-----signature-----
Roma Æterna|SPQR  Imperium Sine Fine "Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque" -Ennius, Annales "Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento;hæ tibi erunt artes; pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos" -Virgil, Aeneid
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
|
Date Posted:
10/28/07 3:14pm
Subject:
RE: Republic Commando 4 - Order 66?
|
GrandAdmiralJello posted:
Tigellinus is almost certainly comparable to the rest. There's no indication that he was a toady like Il-Raz, but rather, his immense influence at Court speaks of something beyond mere charm and charisma.
As for Teshik, the point is not that he failed to catch Far Orbit but that he failed to catch the frigate in a timely enough fashion. Regardless, he survived his suicide mission into Hapan territory and he survived taking on the entire Rebel fleet with his single ship despite the immense odds in both cases. To me, that makes me wonder if Thrawn really is the best of the lot or not.
Good point, but I think you'd have a hard time convincing anyone that Thrawn was not "teh uber" at this point since he's been built up to ridiculous heights.
There's no reason to think the others were not at least as competant as Thrawn in most matters, even if they lacked his insight into enemy thinking, you still have Declann who can guide fleets with the Force for goodness sake.
-----signature-----
Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Valin__Kenobi
Registered:
Mar '04
|
Date Posted:
10/28/07 3:25pm
Subject:
RE: Republic Commando 4 - Order 66?
|
dp4m posted:
On the other hand, given the nature of the Greek Tragedy situation we have as possible, I'm guessing that the Clones all die to ensure the safety of Darman and Etain's child, with a small possibility of Etain surviving.
PerfectCell posted:
I'm not all that amped, we already know how it will go down. The trite and villainous Jedi will get what they rightfully deserve form the glorious and honor bound Clones. Gotta love that Traviss transparency!
Bingo.
*yawn*
-----signature-----
Generation Bantam/KJA/WEG
"If anything, the Mandalorians-- if you had a cultural parallel, they're probably more to the Jewish community, in terms of... they are scattered, and they are despised, but needed." -- Karen Traviss
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
|
Date Posted:
10/28/07 3:33pm
Subject:
RE: Republic Commando 4 - Order 66?
|
IOW, don't expect a lot of brainwashed TIE pilots ala KJA from Karen's work (although KJA was writing in a time when that was accepted and the view of the Empire was a touch different).
Brainwashed TIE pilots?
-----signature-----
Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Master_Keralys
Title: Lit Mod of Ferociously Furious Fury
Registered:
Oct '03
|
Date Posted:
10/28/07 3:37pm
Subject:
RE: Republic Commando 4 - Order 66?
|
Qorl.
- Keralys
-----signature-----
God made man. Man rejected God. God became the man Jesus Christ, died and rose again to life, saving man from himself.
The craziest story ever told.
The truest.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
|
Date Posted:
10/28/07 4:06pm
Subject:
RE: Republic Commando 4 - Order 66?
|
Master_Keralys posted:
Qorl.
- Keralys
Exactly who I was thinking of. Although the impression I have of the stuff of that era was that the authors assumed most of the Imperial troops were brainwashed.
-----signature-----
Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Thrawn McEwok
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
May '00
|
Date Posted:
10/28/07 4:19pm
Subject:
RE: Republic Commando 4 - Order 66?
|
In defence of the YJK novels, I think Qorl's psychosis was due to more than two decades alone in the jungle... I don't see what makes him that different as a character from Ordo or Bly.
Imperial troops ARE brainwashed. 
More when I'm not so tired. 
- The Imperial Ewok
-----signature-----
A/T = OTP "To write one Solo twin as an angstbunny, Master Skywalker, might be considered unfortunate. To write BOTH that way looks like carelessness."
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
|
Date Posted:
10/28/07 4:53pm
Subject:
RE: Republic Commando 4 - Order 66?
|
Master_Keralys posted:
Qorl.
- Keralys
What's so abnormal about Qorl? Any normal pilot won't surrender under any circumstances, will fight to the death, and go to a moon about to blow up JUST FOR THE HONOR OF KILLING REBELS BEFORE THE ARTILLERY DOES!
-----signature-----
Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
|
Date Posted:
10/28/07 5:21pm
Subject:
RE: Republic Commando 4 - Order 66?
|
Thrawn McEwok posted:
In defence of the YJK novels, I think Qorl's psychosis was due to more than two decades alone in the jungle... I don't see what makes him that different as a character from Ordo or Bly.
You don't HAVE to defend the YJK series, the same types of ideas pop up in the regular novels. We're shown a very odd view of the Imperial soldier, and I could have sworn Qorl was in at least one non-YJK novel.
More to the point, the Imperials left over from Palpatine's Empire in the Bantam Era books are very odd indeed, and it seemed as people couldn't decide whether they were all monsters, pantomine villains, or brainwashed ciphers.
It was just how things were at the time, and I'm glad there's emerging a more even handed look at things (and no, this does not negate the Good or Evil aspects, it only adds colour to the palate) nowadays, and I hope that continues.
The fact that most of the Rebels were ex-Imperial always made the portrayal of the Imperials ring more than a bit odd.
-----signature-----
Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Havac
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered:
Sep '05
|
Date Posted:
10/28/07 6:17pm
Subject:
RE: Republic Commando 4 - Order 66?
|
patchworkz7 posted:
Thrawn McEwok posted:
In defence of the YJK novels, I think Qorl's psychosis was due to more than two decades alone in the jungle... I don't see what makes him that different as a character from Ordo or Bly.
You don't HAVE to defend the YJK series, the same types of ideas pop up in the regular novels. We're shown a very odd view of the Imperial soldier, and I could have sworn Qorl was in at least one non-YJK novel.
Edge of Victory: Conquest. I'm not sure that had any references to brainwashing in it, though.
-----signature-----
"Have you not yet learned, Executor, that everything I tell you is the truth?" - Vergere
Recipient of Thrawn McEwok's Sexually Ambiguous Tusken Raider™ and a Special Golden Ewok™
"Reality doesn't care if you believe it." - Boba Fett
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
|
Date Posted:
10/28/07 8:08pm
Subject:
RE: Republic Commando 4 - Order 66?
|
Havac posted:
patchworkz7 posted:
Thrawn McEwok posted:
In defence of the YJK novels, I think Qorl's psychosis was due to more than two decades alone in the jungle... I don't see what makes him that different as a character from Ordo or Bly.
You don't HAVE to defend the YJK series, the same types of ideas pop up in the regular novels. We're shown a very odd view of the Imperial soldier, and I could have sworn Qorl was in at least one non-YJK novel.
Edge of Victory: Conquest. I'm not sure that had any references to brainwashing in it, though.
Well, it clearly linked the character to canon, and he was still crazy after all those years 
Actually, the main point was that the Bantam Era Imperials, especially near the beginning, really were a bit one dimensional when it came to the enlisted soldiers. Even allowing for the YA stuff to have the EVIL! ramped up for the characters they were a bit OTT, as were the older comics and so on.
Also, while it could be considered an extreme, the Eye of Palpatine was set up to brainwash the soldiers, and while they were picking up non-Stormtroopers, iirc, the computer was so damaged it THOUGHT it was picking up Stormtroopers, which suggests that the authors at the time assumed that all the Stormtroopers were brainwashed ciphers.
Regardless, I think we can agree that a lot of the early material presented the Imperials in a less balanced light than later material would.
Again, since a large bulk of the Rebellion's heroes are former Imperials, you sort of would expect them to be more or less like any other person in the Galaxy, perhaps a bit more political in terms of believing in Palpatine's New Order, but the lower classes and enlisted ranks would most likely just look at whatever they were doing as their job and not need brainwashing.
-----signature-----
Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
RebelGrrl
Registered:
Jan '06
|
Date Posted:
10/28/07 10:21pm
Subject:
RE: Republic Commando 4 - Order 66?
|
The lower ranks and civvies wouldn't need brainwashing, persay, just a pack of lies coming down from on high and repeated by the media ad infinitum.
Draw your own similarities, as this isn't a political discussion board. 
-----signature-----
Well-behaved women seldom make history.
You can't fix stupid and you can't reason with crazy.
Happiness is a warm Hoojib!
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
|
Date Posted:
10/29/07 5:52am
Subject:
RE: Republic Commando 4 - Order 66?
- Date Edited:
10/29/07 7:10am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jedimarine
|
patchworkz7 posted:
Also, while it could be considered an extreme, the Eye of Palpatine was set up to brainwash the soldiers, and while they were picking up non-Stormtroopers, iirc, the computer was so damaged it THOUGHT it was picking up Stormtroopers, which suggests that the authors at the time assumed that all the Stormtroopers were brainwashed ciphers.
Thing to note that we know now that KJA didn't know then...the Stormies in the timeframe of the "Eye" project would be, with hardly an exception, clones. In which case the indoctrination systems of the ship make a little more sense, atleast to me...give the clones a "fresher" on loyalty before slaughtering kids in the name of the Emperor...I'll buy it.
My recollection of COTJ is little rusty, but wasn't the whole "indoctrination" system on board an auxiliary system for troops that were out of line, or as actually occurred...the collection of sentients to fulfill the mission even if the troops could not be found?
The Eye was far from standard operating procedure, in any case. And not all Bantam era Imps are painted so "foolishly". My personal favorite has always been the Stormtrooper Tale from "Tales from Mos Eisley's Cantina"...that's about as "everyman" a tale as you can get.
-----signature-----
GO SEE "THE DARK KNIGHT"
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
|
Date Posted:
10/29/07 9:58am
Subject:
RE: Republic Commando 4 - Order 66?
|
Jedimarine posted:
Thing to note that we know now that KJA didn't know then...the Stormies in the timeframe of the "Eye" project would be, with hardly an exception, clones. In which case the indoctrination systems of the ship make a little more sense, atleast to me...give the clones a "fresher" on loyalty before slaughtering kids in the name of the Emperor...I'll buy it.
My recollection of COTJ is little rusty, but wasn't the whole "indoctrination" system on board an auxiliary system for troops that were out of line, or as actually occurred...the collection of sentients to fulfill the mission even if the troops could not be found?
The Eye was far from standard operating procedure, in any case. And not all Bantam era Imps are painted so "foolishly". My personal favorite has always been the Stormtrooper Tale from "Tales from Mos Eisley's Cantina"...that's about as "everyman" a tale as you can get.
I was under the impression that the EYE expected to pick up Stormtrooper garrisons but was so damaged by Callista's attack that it had was accidentally picking up people. Now, they may have been secondary protocols for dealing with AWOL Troopers, but the fact that EVERYONE got the brainwashing treatment was a little weird.
The point is, for a long time the cannon fodder of the Empire was not very well shown as competant and complete human beings. There are other scenes (one involving a stranded Imperial trooper as well) where the rank and file come off very badly, and then there's the way KJA wrote the top scientists of the Empire as being...well, I don't know if he was aiming for comedy or some subtle dig at people who took the mechanics of SW too seriously, maybe a shot at trekkies, but the way his scientists are portrayed is pretty dire.
I understand some of it may have been aiming for the pulp roots of SW, but in a lot of cases I got the feeling they went overboard.
Speaking of the anthologies, they're something I need to pick up as I don't think I've read any of the "Tales..." anthos yet.
-----signature-----
Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
