patchworkz7 posted:You don't HAVE to defend the YJK series...
patchworkz7 posted:... the same types of ideas pop up in the regular novels. We're shown a very odd view of the Imperial soldier, and I could have sworn Qorl was in at least one non-YJK novel.
patchworkz7 posted:More to the point, the Imperials left over from Palpatine's Empire in the Bantam Era books are very odd indeed, and it seemed as people couldn't decide whether they were all monsters, pantomine villains, or brainwashed ciphers. It was just how things were at the time, and I'm glad there's emerging a more even handed look at things (and no, this does not negate the Good or Evil aspects, it only adds colour to the palate) nowadays, and I hope that continues.
patchworkz7 posted:The fact that most of the Rebels were ex-Imperial always made the portrayal of the Imperials ring more than a bit odd.
patchworkz7 posted: I was under the impression that the EYE expected to pick up Stormtrooper garrisons but was so damaged by Callista's attack that it had was accidentally picking up people. Now, they may have been secondary protocols for dealing with AWOL Troopers, but the fact that EVERYONE got the brainwashing treatment was a little weird.
patchworkz7 posted:I meant that I actually enjoyed the YJK stories as YA stories, and I understand where the OTT nature of them comes from, so I don't consider them that bad in context.
patchworkz7 posted:Maybe I should have said we just don't get a very balanced view of the Imperials in the Bantam Era, and while you're right that we're seeing them post-Fall of the Empire, their very natures suggest that they weren't all that together to begin with. Regardless, the point being that I wouldn't mind seeing a different look into the Imperial mindset and the themes of duty and loyalty rather than "they were evil" or propaganda got the best of them. And I'm not even an Imperialist like some of the fans on the board, I just think it's a fertile ground for exploration.
patchworkz7 posted:Thrawn McEwok posted:In defence of the YJK novels, I think Qorl's psychosis was due to more than two decades alone in the jungle... I don't see what makes him that different as a character from Ordo or Bly. You don't HAVE to defend the YJK series, the same types of ideas pop up in the regular novels. We're shown a very odd view of the Imperial soldier, and I could have sworn Qorl was in at least one non-YJK novel. More to the point, the Imperials left over from Palpatine's Empire in the Bantam Era books are very odd indeed, and it seemed as people couldn't decide whether they were all monsters, pantomine villains, or brainwashed ciphers. It was just how things were at the time, and I'm glad there's emerging a more even handed look at things (and no, this does not negate the Good or Evil aspects, it only adds colour to the palate) nowadays, and I hope that continues.
Thrawn McEwok posted:In defence of the YJK novels, I think Qorl's psychosis was due to more than two decades alone in the jungle... I don't see what makes him that different as a character from Ordo or Bly.
Thrawn McEwok posted: I'm developing a theory that Ackbar's megalomania and militarism both caused the military collapse of the New Republic, and facilitated Jacen Solo's rise to tyranny... - The Imperial Ewok
It's people buying into Imperial chic because the uniforms are spiffy and their accents are hot.
sabarte posted:Patch, hon, the problem is it's not a more even handed look at all. It's people buying into Imperial chic because the uniforms are spiffy and their accents are hot. There's just as much, if not more pointless villainization going on than before. It's just now it's "I'm a Sep Weequay, I rape teenage Padawans", "Let's turn Jedi younglings into CRAZED CYBORGS", "I'm a sociopathic Muun general and I don't care." "Zombie plague Gungans! Great idea!" And they're even less balanced than the Imps were because for the most part they are not human (Human Seps and Primitive Sep Dupes(tm) get a better deal) There's all sorts of "monsters, panto villains, and ciphers" in the Separatist cause. They're there for the Imps, clones, and proto-Imps to beat on to "redeem" them. Utter nonsense, if you ask me.
sabarte posted: There's all sorts of "monsters, panto villains, and ciphers" in the Separatist cause. They're there for the Imps, clones, and proto-Imps to beat on to "redeem" them. Utter nonsense, if you ask me.
sabarte posted:patchworkz7 posted:Thrawn McEwok posted:In defence of the YJK novels, I think Qorl's psychosis was due to more than two decades alone in the jungle... I don't see what makes him that different as a character from Ordo or Bly. You don't HAVE to defend the YJK series, the same types of ideas pop up in the regular novels. We're shown a very odd view of the Imperial soldier, and I could have sworn Qorl was in at least one non-YJK novel. More to the point, the Imperials left over from Palpatine's Empire in the Bantam Era books are very odd indeed, and it seemed as people couldn't decide whether they were all monsters, pantomine villains, or brainwashed ciphers. It was just how things were at the time, and I'm glad there's emerging a more even handed look at things (and no, this does not negate the Good or Evil aspects, it only adds colour to the palate) nowadays, and I hope that continues. Patch, hon, the problem is it's not a more even handed look at all. It's people buying into Imperial chic because the uniforms are spiffy and their accents are hot. There's just as much, if not more pointless villainization going on than before. It's just now it's "I'm a Sep Weequay, I rape teenage Padawans", "Let's turn Jedi younglings into CRAZED CYBORGS", "I'm a sociopathic Muun general and I don't care." "Zombie plague Gungans! Great idea!" And they're even less balanced than the Imps were because for the most part they are not human (Human Seps and Primitive Sep Dupes(tm) get a better deal) There's all sorts of "monsters, panto villains, and ciphers" in the Separatist cause. They're there for the Imps, clones, and proto-Imps to beat on to "redeem" them. Utter nonsense, if you ask me.
Jedimarine posted: Thing to note that we know now that KJA didn't know then...the Stormies in the timeframe of the "Eye" project would be, with hardly an exception, clones. In which case the indoctrination systems of the ship make a little more sense, atleast to me...give the clones a "fresher" on loyalty before slaughtering kids in the name of the Emperor...I'll buy it. My recollection of COTJ is little rusty, but wasn't the whole "indoctrination" system on board an auxiliary system for troops that were out of line, or as actually occurred...the collection of sentients to fulfill the mission even if the troops could not be found? The Eye was far from standard operating procedure, in any case. And not all Bantam era Imps are painted so "foolishly". My personal favorite has always been the Stormtrooper Tale from "Tales from Mos Eisley's Cantina"...that's about as "everyman" a tale as you can get.
McEwok posted:The first is the way in which ordinary people react to the mentality of a military-industrial system; the second is the way in which that system develops as it starts to collapse: we move from the legitimation of violence, to a political situation that rewards those with a capacity for violence, encouraging sick and sadistic tendancies. The most notable factor, I think, is the sheer ordinariness of most of these people.
