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Topic:
The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue (Spoilers Allowed) (Announced!)
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
5/21 7:09am
Subject:
RE: The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue
- Date Edited:
5/21 7:11am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jedimarine
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CardDreamer posted:
Rouge77 posted:
Not true. They could give that escapist fiction - she just claims that they are not ready to give us that and are instead leaving the aftermath of Invincible untouched as a kind of lame compromise: No escapist fiction, but no exploration of the consequences of Invincible's most tragic event either. Worst of both worlds. Either they should have made Invincible end differently, or with this ending they should have explored what it means to characters. Not just let it end like it did and then jump in years forward so that they wouldn't have to handle the effects of Invincible's ending to characters. Cowardly decision.
It is true. You claim they could give Escapist Fiction? How do you know the Falcon, a stand alone story, isn't? It's main focus is Han, Leia and Allana on a mission where she said they survive. It's set two years after LotF to avoid the fallout of Invincible. Seems to me that escapism from not only the real world, but the dark/war times aspect of the current EU as well.
You're arguing my point for me. As she said, people complained when they were given books dealing with character grief, and now that they are ignoring it, people are complaining/upset about it (as you yourself are stating).
EDIT: As Watto said, there's fans for every aspect. They can't please everyone.
I think you may want to read the whole statement from her again.
She's stating that they understand there is a desire to move away from the "dark"...but that the staff isn't ready to do that yet...
not "weren't" ready...AREN'T.
If Millenium Falcon is going to be a joy romp, she can only say so much (like they all live...which was a "duh" statement)...and they may tool in some lighter fair...but from the statement she made...the course forward is set to a darker tone...and she feels they cannot change course now.
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Hope
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
5/21 7:22am
Subject:
RE: The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue
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I can only speak for myself here but this is pretty depressing news. Almost as depressing as the LotF series itself. For those of us who watched as our favorite characters were thrown away like so much garbage and watched as so much potential was thrown under the bus for the sake of a poorly thought out series the "oops, maybe we went a little overboard on the doom and gloom" comes a little too late. I'm sorry but a Han/Leia and Allana flying around in the Falcon book is not going to make up for what was done in this series. It's a little too late to close the barn door now. What is going on here? Are we expected to just forget about the events of this series? Are the characters just going to gloss over or just not refer to these events in upcoming books? I'm not really sure what is going on at LFL and Del Rey but I seriously doubt that Sue's (LFL's) attempt at damage control is a result of just Invincible. I believe the backlash started long before the last LotF book was released.
I'm honestly not the least bit interested in these post-LotF books. I certainly wasn't interested before and I sure as heck am not interested now. At least there's Darkhorse's excellent Legacy comic series. But I'm getting a bit queasy at the possibilty of novels featuring these characters. We're only about forty or so years away from the births of characters like Roan, Kol and Morrigan (the gap between these two series is getting smaller). I shudder to think of these characters in the hands of Del Rey  .
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"Don't tell me; let me guess. You're Mara Jade"
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-thor-
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/21 7:24am
Subject:
RE: The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue
- Date Edited:
5/21 7:25am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
-thor-
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Trip posted:
So... does this mean we can officially declare loltiff a failure now?
Why only now? It's been a failure since the day they decided to rehash the underlying Prequel theme and embellish it with long-dead and buried characters, characterizations so far off the target that it isn't funny anymore and a basic plot that only worked because central characters received several overdoses of plain stupidy. 
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
5/21 7:28am
Subject:
RE: The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue
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It's not just Del Rey...nothing gets through without LFL approval.
I wonder if that was part of the renewal...DR takes such a pounding from fans...LFL needed to renew just in gratitude for diverting the anger. 
_________________
Anyone else sense a case of "series" amnesia coming on again?
Who needs continuity when they just forget stuff. 
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GO SEE "THE DARK KNIGHT"
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
5/21 7:32am
Subject:
RE: The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue
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-thor- posted:
Trip posted:
So... does this mean we can officially declare loltiff a failure now?
Why only now?
Because now the marketing is finished.
They aren't going to say "we goof" until you bought it all.
To say something sooner would torpedo the series mid-run.
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GO SEE "THE DARK KNIGHT"
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-thor-
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/21 7:36am
Subject:
RE: The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue
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I was being sarcastic. Why? The rest of the post should be self explanatory. Quite frankly I don't care how DR rates it on the financial grid. If it was up to me I'd spend the revenue to recall the books and sacrifice them in the next incinerator. But I'm not the one with the power to do that ... unfortunately. 
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
5/21 8:04am
Subject:
RE: The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue
- Date Edited:
5/21 8:21am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
ChildOfWinds
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Jedimarine
I think you may want to read the whole statement from her again.
She's stating that they understand there is a desire to move away from the "dark"...but that the staff isn't ready to do that yet... they may tool in some lighter fair...but from the statement she made...the course forward is set to a darker tone...and she feels they cannot change course now.
I caught that, J.  I can't tell you how upset that makes me! We've gotten almost nothing but doom and gloom from the publisher and LFL since Del Rey first got the contract. 
It looks like they're planning more of the same. So how many other characters are going to be killed off or go dark? This is very disappointing and even a little scary.
Hope :
the "oops, maybe we went a little overboard on the doom and gloom" comes a little too late. I'm sorry but a Han/Leia and Allana flying around in the Falcon book is not going to make up for what was done in this series. It's a little too late to close the barn door now.
I completely agree. Even more depressing is the fact that even though they're acknowledging that many fans seem to want lighter fare, they're not going to give it to us. They apparently already have even MORE terrible things in store for the poor surviving Skywalker/Solos and their colleagues.
-thor- :
Why only now? It's been a failure since the day they decided to rehash the underlying Prequel theme and embellish it with long-dead and buried characters, characterizations so far off the target that it isn't funny anymore and a basic plot that only worked because central characters received several overdoses of plain stupidy.
I've been saying this for a long time, Thor. It seems that others have finally had enough of these depressing, dark, sad stories too.
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T-boy-wan
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
5/21 8:16am
Subject:
RE: The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue
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I'd say it was only a failure now because, with the first seven books I could see a great series, not as good as NJO, but worth my money. Then I read Revelation and from what I've heard of Invincible....I will still read it and then decide whether I should bother with post-LOTF books but at the moment I'm not feeling it.
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patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/21 8:17am
Subject:
RE: The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue
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SuperWatto posted:
On another note: Patch, you surprise me. I always thought you're the first one to defend this stuff.
I'm upset as a reader and a customer, and as someone who enjoyed LoTF right up until the last book, and I still enjoyed aspects of the book, I just wanted the type of emotionalism that I know Denning has written before. However, this isn't about the book, really, it's about a company spokesperson telling the fans that their time was wasted, that they didn't know what they were doing, that everything they've enjoyed for the last few years is worthless and they just decided to end it because they couldn't figure out how to make everything fit.
On one hand she says she can't say what "Legacy" means because it "involves other people", but on the other, she basically slags off the work of every single person SHE helped hire and a story that SHE helped design. We've all heard how Sue and Shelly were deeply involved in the process, and up until the last time she posted she was excitedly talking about how brilliant everything was and how wonderful everything was and then...this. Suddenly she gets on a week after INVINCIBLE comes out and starts distancing herself and the company from the final book and series as a whole?
WTK?
It's not professional behavior by any standard, and it's insulting not just to fans, but to all the people who worked on the project. She seems to be both admitting a failure at the editorial level, then telling us not to worry because MF is going to be GREAT! (but you told us that about LoTF too, Sue), so the whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I really am shocked that a public figure for the company is essentially running down their product and saying they had no idea how to manage certain storylines.
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Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
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-thor-
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/21 8:19am
Subject:
RE: The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue
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It's not just the "dark and depressing" thing. I mean Bantam did have its share of literary disasters, but for some reason all the books fit a certain ... well, I'd call it "atmosphere". So do the books published by DelRey, but IMO their "atmosphere" just doesn't work for the GFFA.
I've got a theory why especially LotF received so much rejection. The authors DelRey hired to write the LotF books aren't some incompetent first-grade kids who have just learned to write and read. At least Allston and Traviss have proven that they can deliver enjoyable Star Wars books (X-Wing books for Allston, Republic Commando for Traviss), but I have the impression that they simply failed to grasp what drew so many Star Wars fans and what made the central characters (Han, Leia, Luke and the characters close to them [which includes Mara and the two couple's kids]) so fascinating. It's like having to write a paper in school on some book series you never read before and which doesn't interest you at all. You'll certainly deliver a paper, but it's not going to be brilliant nor is your heart in it. I simply think the authors never read the original EU books by Zahn (and IMO he laid the groundwork for the characters, not Lucas) and so they got a completely different impression of them, one that is not consistent with the "consensus" among the fans.
I think the drastic difference in perception of Allston's LotF books vs his X-Wing books (Wraith Squadron  ) and Traviss's LotF books vs her Republic Commando books is just that the two of them could work with their original characters in the one and had to work with other author's creations in the other. This it where it went awry ... apart from the lousy plot choice, that is. 
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sabarte
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
5/21 8:25am
Subject:
RE: The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue
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There's a difference between "some fans don't like them" and "fans don't buy them". LOTF, like most "this is a major event" books, is pretty unambiguously a commercial success.
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SuperWatto
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
5/21 8:29am
Subject:
RE: The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue
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Well, Patch... I can only agree.
It's the number one thing you don't do as an employer: publicly slag the people you've hired.
How long has she been doing this, anyway? Must be at least ten years.
Good point there about DR being the scapegoat, Marine. But it's very unfair. Way I understand it, DR isn't so much at fault in the entire scheme...
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patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/21 8:35am
Subject:
RE: The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue
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Jedimarine posted:
-thor- posted:
Trip posted:
So... does this mean we can officially declare loltiff a failure now?
Why only now?
Because now the marketing is finished.
They aren't going to say "we goof" until you bought it all.
To say something sooner would torpedo the series mid-run.
SW books never go out of print. Sue has been honest in saying the usual PR flack things in the past about series; "It wasn't for everyone", "some people didn't like the direction", etc, but this is the first time she's written a series off. The only answer is that she doesn't realize how she's coming across, and she's rambling, because she contridicts herself all over the place and the whole thing seems...disjointed. Maybe she got a piece of email that was particularly disturbing, maybe she sensed how upset fans were at the lack of resolution.
The other thing has been the lack of support for INVINCIBLE, which is not consistant with the series. Every other book Sue has found time (really, how long does it take?) to come out and pimp a bit and tell us how great it is, with the last one it just slipped out and a week later she's thrown the series under the bus, WHILE the author is still touring on signing dates, iirc.
A week is NOT enough time for sales to build, especially on a hardcover, and it'll hurt MMPB sales if she's really dismissing the series. For example; SACRIFICE is at #11 on the NYT. A MMPB reprint of a hardcover is at a solid #11, and supposedly Sue considers anything that places at #15 or above to be a success (yes, I know all about the arguments concerning the NYT, but I'm going off Sue's past statements, and the fact that it must have sold decently to place on the NYT again).
Why cripple back sales of the books as a whole and INVINCIBLE? If people were on the fence, why should they go out and spend $27 on a book that doesn't wrap up the series, that the publicity person for the owner company doesn't think wraps up the series and doesn't think has an emotional climax?
Denning deserves a LOT better than that. This has been his baby and he's been a gentleman who has defended the series and his fellow authors the whole of the way, and he's guided this story since DNT.
-----signature-----
Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
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SuperWatto
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
5/21 8:42am
Subject:
RE: The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue
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Patch posted:
disjointed
but: with purpose! 
Patch posted:
Maybe she got a piece of email that was particularly disturbing
Long live speculation! Seems like it, doesn't it? Actually... Seems like internally, DR isn't the scapegoat, but this author trio is. Seems like
Patch posted:
Denning deserves a LOT better than that,
but won't be getting it from LFL anymore.
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Jedimarine
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
5/21 8:53am
Subject:
RE: The next Novel Contract - Updates from Sue
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What I am fascinated by is the fact that this verifies that the creative process was spread around...the finale of this series wasn't just Troy's "vision"...his "baby" as has been stated.
And it still ended this way.
Which means to me...there was no vision...except in terms of the rotating authorship...which she admitted "doesn't work".
I don't sense this is a total dump off...In fact, I think by saying this she steers some of the wrath her way...but It seems clear the intention is to defuse the situation before it escalates.
Calling the series a dud before more people become livid about it...bring up Millennium Falcon as soon as possible...tell the fans "rough seas ahead"...and pray they can sail through it.
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