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Topic:
Legacy #23: Loyalties
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Darth-Ghost
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
5/8 9:47am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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Like I said, I think it would be unlikely for LFL to approve of it, but I do kinda like the idea of all future Skywalkers being part-Zeltron. It would be nice and something different for a change, plus they just look cool!
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Jmacq1
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
5/8 9:48am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
- Date Edited:
5/8 9:50am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jmacq1
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That depends on how effectively a force-user could shield his emotions from that kind of snooping. Blue's given the impression that she has a hard time "reading" him at times. Maybe it's instinctive for the Jedi-trained to have that kind of "shielding" up.
Which isn't to say I think he was lying...Cade doesn't strike me as cruelly manipulative. I don't think he'd lie about something like that just to keep a good mechanic on his crew.
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beccatoria
Title: 181st Imperial Discussion Group host
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
5/8 10:10am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
- Date Edited:
5/8 10:14am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
beccatoria
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Ulicus posted:
Bec, regarding Cade's age, yeah - I think he's supposed to be twenty-one, even though I'm going to pretend he's twenty-three until told otherwise in the text.  (Jariah can be 21 :P)
It's funny how that difference means a lot to us, isn't it? *winces*
Honestly I'd have preferred if Cade was about twenty-three (which would still just about be younger than me) simply because we know he got picked up at 14, and we know that he got his own ship with Blue and Jariah at least two if not three years ago. The amount of time for him being mistreated piratical scum diminishes. So I guess I'd rather have had him indebted to Rav for like, 7 years not 4. But I'd be lying if there wasn't a small part of me going, older than me? BZUH? 
I hate getting old. *attempts to disbelieve in aging*
Ulicus posted:
Han/Leia would have been weird if they'd had frequent interaction from the ages of twenty and ten respectively.
Before I'd heard the eighteen thing, I honestly thought Marasiah was twenty-four or five.
I thought she was older than Cade too, just something about the way she carried herself, and possibly the white streak in her hair makes her look more mature? I mean, I know she's not actually going grey, I just mean...it's something I associate with Serious Jag and isn't particularly "cutesy" so it gives her a more severe appearance? I dunno.
The Antares thing - do we know how old he's supposed to be? I mean, he's the head of the Imperial Knights but he seems quite young for that, so his appointment might be recent and prodigious. He could be as young as 25 if he was 18 and newly knighted back-in-the-day.
This of course doesn't negate the weirdness of "I knew you as a child."
The personal retcon I use is that Draco had very little contact with Sia until she formally began her training as an Imperial Knight, and perhaps even then. I imagine Sia's life was strictly regulated and while she would have been guarded by the IKs it's possible that she had personal bodyguards assigned to her or somesuch. And I wouldn't be surprised if Fel personally oversaw much of her rudimentary instructions in the ways of the Force. And after Krayt deposed him, they were on the run a lot of the time and only recently retook Bastion. They were on the move and as we saw, Sia seemed to have a Master - Elke Vetter. I think it's likely that Draco was nearly always out on assignment, or undercover, or...something.
I guess I just find it less creepy if Draco was - to Sia - one of those knights whose face I'm familiar with but I don't really know and if Sia - to Draco - was abstractly "the Boss's daughter," but not someone he really saw because she was a child and was always safely tucked away with her bodyguards or being hidden on a safeworld. Then all of a sudden, she's 16 or 17, and she shows up, training as a knight, taking on official duties for her father, etc. and it's a little less creepy if Draco starts paying attention.
Ulicus posted:
# If the "Skywalker" name is going to end with Cade and he is really the "last of the Skywalkers", then no-one will mind if he sticks with Blue to the very end.
Somehow I doubt they'll let the cashcow die... 
Ulicus posted:
# If Cade is going to have children... I think it would be tricky. I'm not particularly adverse to the idea of Pinkwalkers but I can see it being a turn off for the head honchos in control of the franchise.
Yeah, I agree. Which is a shame cus I'd love to see it, if you could draw them in a way that didn't just make them look horribly sunburned like that Zeltron in KOTORII.
I mean, it wouldn't even have to be a longterm diversion from looking "human" (or, as depressed as it makes me to suggest it, "white"). Cade's kids would all be redheaded and various shades of pink, but if they married humans, his great-grandkids would probably look totally human again, and with recessive genes even his grandkids could just look like redheaded caucasians with a tendency to blush.
It could be an interesting way to change-up a Skywalker generation.
Of course, with all the speculation about who ought to be Lando's descendant (Anj Dahl! Jariah Syn!) I want a chinese Calrissian to show up...
To be serious for a moment, I think the issue is that people want their favourite characters kids to resemble their favourite characters. Why else would Anakin Solo be the spit of Han, why would Jacen be the spit of Han before they decided they could make him look a little more like Leia because Anakin was so Han Solo-y, why else would Jaina look just like Leia. Luke looks like Anakin Skywalker (supposedly) and Leia resembles Padme, even though Luke actually being blond and blue-eyes was reasonably genetically unlikely.
But it's also just a knee-jerk reaction and I think that most people would get on board with the story as long as it was a well-told one and they cared about the characters. And the idea of a small Cade Skywalker lookalike with red hair and red skin is adorable!
Pinkwalkers for everyone!
Ulicus posted:
Of course, I quite genuinely believe that Cade is going to sleep through the entire female cast (barring his close blood relatives - though he'll definitely KISS Gunner) so there's no need to take anything I say seriously.
yes. Yes there is. 
Actually the only reason I dislike the Cade/Deliah scene at ALL is that it will cut down on Cade's, ahem, loose ways, and I'm so attached to this hilarious image I have of him as a total man-ho...
Ulicus posted:
Princess Leia in disguise. 
SPORFLE.
We'll have to keep looking for "clues" in case this theory gets complex enough to add to the conspiracy thread...
Darth-Ghost posted:
Like I said, I think it would be unlikely for LFL to approve of it, but I do kinda like the idea of all future Skywalkers being part-Zeltron. It would be nice and something different for a change, plus they just look cool!
Well that's easy. Mara Skywalker could have been part Zeltron. It would explain the fact that the red hair continued for about three generations after her (if we assume Kol is Ben's grandson) despite being a recessive gene. It's clearly dominant in Zeltrons!
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RebelGrrl
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
5/8 10:13am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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Agreed on the shielding.
However, it would have been an equally bad move to have that shielding up while confessing such a thing.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
5/8 10:48am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
- Date Edited:
5/8 10:49am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Ulicus
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beccatoria posted:
I hate getting old. *attempts to disbelieve in aging*
We already agreed that this would lead to worldwide revolution or, at the very least, the British Isles becoming a secluded Island Nation of mysterious elf-beings.
becca posted:
I thought she was older than Cade too, just something about the way she carried herself, and possibly the white streak in her hair makes her look more mature? I mean, I know she's not actually going grey, I just mean...it's something I associate with Serious Jag and isn't particularly "cutesy" so it gives her a more severe appearance? I dunno.
Yes, that was pretty much it. Along with the way she seemed to demonstrate maturity. I know we have examples of incredible young people being incredibly mature for their age (Padme in TPM... and Leia herself in ANH) but, I don't know. I liked thinking Sia was a little bit older than Cade, it helped give her "words of wisdom" to him a little more resonance, ya know?
Heh. I know that's silly. Nothing to say that wisdom must come with age, but that's just the way I feel.
Becca posted:
The Antares thing - do we know how old he's supposed to be? I mean, he's the head of the Imperial Knights but he seems quite young for that, so his appointment might be recent and prodigious. He could be as young as 25 if he was 18 and newly knighted back-in-the-day.
I was assuming he was somewhere between 25-27, yeah. I'm also assuming that he's the Imperial Knight's answer to Mace Windu: the one who broke all the "youngest age" records.
Becca posted:
This of course doesn't negate the weirdness of "I knew you as a child."
The personal retcon I use is that Draco had very little contact with Sia until she formally began her training as an Imperial Knight, and perhaps even then. I imagine Sia's life was strictly regulated and while she would have been guarded by the IKs it's possible that she had personal bodyguards assigned to her or somesuch. And I wouldn't be surprised if Fel personally oversaw much of her rudimentary instructions in the ways of the Force. And after Krayt deposed him, they were on the run a lot of the time and only recently retook Bastion. They were on the move and as we saw, Sia seemed to have a Master - Elke Vetter. I think it's likely that Draco was nearly always out on assignment, or undercover, or...something.
I guess I just find it less creepy if Draco was - to Sia - one of those knights whose face I'm familiar with but I don't really know and if Sia - to Draco - was abstractly "the Boss's daughter," but not someone he really saw because she was a child and was always safely tucked away with her bodyguards or being hidden on a safeworld. Then all of a sudden, she's 16 or 17, and she shows up, training as a knight, taking on official duties for her father, etc. and it's a little less creepy if Draco starts paying attention.
That could work, sure. 
Though I must confess to having got the feeling that, since Roan was Draco's master (urm, I'm sure I read that somewhere), or at the very least since Draco appeared to be the Knight assigned to Roan even as early as 130 ABY, that he was also a "friend of the family". Though perhaps not.
I do like your idea of Draco having heard and occasionally caught a glimpse of Marasiah as a child but having never actually *known* her. It's quite cute to think that one day he's thinking: "great, Roan's cool but now I'm going to have to deal with that stupid kid and... holy chaos on death sticks she's hot."
It wouldn't hurt if Sia has always been the chaser, either.
I can imagine any guy getting worn down by Marasiah regardless of how long he's known her and from what point if she's pretty much throwing herself at him. Urm, regally, I mean. I wouldn't want to tick Jello off.
bec posted:
Somehow I doubt they'll let the cashcow die...
Then let Cade live forever.
Becca posted:
Yeah, I agree. Which is a shame cus I'd love to see it, if you could draw them in a way that didn't just make them look horribly sunburned like that Zeltron in KOTORII.
I mean, it wouldn't even have to be a longterm diversion from looking "human" (or, as depressed as it makes me to suggest it, "white"). Cade's kids would all be redheaded and various shades of pink, but if they married humans, his great-grandkids would probably look totally human again, and with recessive genes even his grandkids could just look like redheaded caucasians with a tendency to blush.
It could be an interesting way to change-up a Skywalker generation.
You're quite right.
Hmm. Is it weird that I imagine a Zeltron/Human hybrid looking a bit like Lion-O? At in terms of hair colour and complexion, anyway, not the whole "being a cat man" thing.
Becca posted:
To be serious for a moment, I think the issue is that people want their favourite characters kids to resemble their favourite characters. Why else would Anakin Solo be the spit of Han, why would Jacen be the spit of Han before they decided they could make him look a little more like Leia because Anakin was so Han Solo-y, why else would Jaina look just like Leia. Luke looks like Anakin Skywalker (supposedly) and Leia resembles Padme, even though Luke actually being blond and blue-eyes was reasonably genetically unlikely.
But it's also just a knee-jerk reaction and I think that most people would get on board with the story as long as it was a well-told one and they cared about the characters. And the idea of a small Cade Skywalker lookalike with red hair and red skin is adorable!
Pinkwalkers for everyone!
Well said.
Becca posted:
Actually the only reason I dislike the Cade/Deliah scene at ALL is that it will cut down on Cade's, ahem, loose ways, and I'm so attached to this hilarious image I have of him as a total man-ho...
To link back to the Thundercat thing, then:
"Skywaker, Skywalker, Skywalker! CADE SKYWALKER MAN-HOOOOOOOO!
Cade Skywalker's on the move, Cade Skywalker's loose!
Feel the magic, hear the "phwoar", Cade Skywalker's LOOSE!"
Actually, I'll be honest. I only made the Lion-O connection above so I could make this joke here. Many apologies.
Becca posted:
SPORFLE.
We'll have to keep looking for "clues" in case this theory gets complex enough to add to the conspiracy thread...
Though, considering the get-up, it could be Jaina in her Mandalorian gear...
Becca posted:
Well that's easy. Mara Skywalker could have been part Zeltron. It would explain the fact that the red hair continued for about three generations after her (if we assume Kol is Ben's grandson) despite being a recessive gene. It's clearly dominant in Zeltrons!
Love the idea, love it.
Was it you who suggested that before? I'm sure I've heard it before... anyway, regardless. Love it.
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Emperor_Time
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
5/8 11:15am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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So which parts of the myth of Iego is true and which parts are false? 
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beccatoria
Title: 181st Imperial Discussion Group host
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
5/8 11:17am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
- Date Edited:
5/8 11:32am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
beccatoria
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Uli posted:
We already agreed that this would lead to worldwide revolution or, at the very least, the British Isles becoming a secluded Island Nation of mysterious elf-beings.
We have a pumpkin smiley, two aliens, a devil, a pig, a clown, pinocchio, a skull, a monkey, a chicken and a cow. BUT NOT ELVES?
It's not right I tell you!
Uli posted:
I do like your idea of Draco having heard and occasionally caught a glimpse of Marasiah as a child but having never actually *known* her. It's quite cute to think that one day he's thinking: "great, Roan's cool but now I'm going to have to deal with that stupid kid and... holy chaos on death sticks she's hot."
Exactly! It'd be sooo funny.
And I like the idea of her being the chaser too. She certainly was forward in this issue. It's an entertaining reversal on the stereotype.
Uli posted:
Hmm. Is it weird that I imagine a Zeltron/Human hybrid looking a bit like Lion-O? At in terms of hair colour and complexion, anyway, not the whole "being a cat man" thing.
I think it's worse that I know who that is well enough to agree. Vaguely.
Uli posted:
"Skywaker, Skywalker, Skywalker! CADE SKYWALKER MAN-HOOOOOOOO!
Cade Skywalker's on the move, Cade Skywalker's loose!
Feel the magic, hear the "phwoar", Cade Skywalker's LOOSE!"
Actually, I'll be honest. I only made the Lion-O connection above so I could make this joke here. Many apologies.
And again, however bad it is that you spent time setting up that joke, it's worse that I know the tune and the original lyrics.
Speaking of: have you actually SEEN the first episode of Thundercats as an adult? Cus I can thoroughly reccomend that it's...hilarious.
The basic is that the bad, evil dudes are forcing the "Brute Men" to build "Castle PLUN-DAAAHR!" and the Thundercats (the heroes) spend a lot of time in their brand-new-still-under-construction-top-secret lair whining about how unfair this is, while lifting not a finger of their own, and letting their "friends" the Ro-Bear-Burbles (yes, the ro-bear-burbles) do all the work. The Ro-Bear-Burbles' chief occupation seems to be growing fruit, befriending Thundercats and building fortresses for them. So far as I can tell, the only difference is the Brute Men are native slaves, while the Ro-Bear-Burbles (no, I will never get tired of typing that) are imported.
...it might actually be possible that I missed this cartoon entirely as a child and only discovered its wonders recently... [face_doh]
Uli posted:
Though, considering the get-up, it could be Jaina in her Mandalorian gear...
NO! Jaina kept NO Mandalorian gear! GO TO YOUR MAZE!
Uli posted:
Was it you who suggested that before? I'm sure I've heard it before... anyway, regardless. Love it.
I've said it before but I'm pretty sure I heard it from someone else and can't remember who that genius was. 
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Jedi_Master_Luc
Registered:
Jul '06
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Date Posted:
5/8 11:37am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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Holy Fel! It's been out less than 48hrs and there's already eleven pages on the thread!?
I feel all late now like the standard "I just finished it and it was INCREDIBLE!" would make me look like a dingus...
So i just finished the issue and it was INCREDIBLE!  Kidding. Awesome issue though. All the above mentioned Human-Zeltron (or Humatron) kinda represents my collected thoughts on that issue, aside from that i thought they got a lot of things kinda aired out, cleared up or otherwise tied off.
Additionally they opened a couple new cans of worms as usual.
Bless them.
The minimally included (but included  ) aside that Jeriah had about Cade's Force-usiness was i think necessary and welcome. There's no guarantee that the situation will remain in that state, thought given recent history, it seems likely for awhile.
I was a little disappointed by Cade and Blue "making up" so rapidly. Like Becc, i too like to consider Cade a bit of a Man-ho. There are too few true Man-hos and we needs as many of them as we gan gets, fictional or otherwise. The fictional ones are almost better. Like a mascot!
but i digress...Roan's reaction to Cade's escape from Sith-Central was a little over the top and i think perhaps out of character. I don't recall Palpy so publicly losing his cool...umm...ever. I thought Roan was another cool cat, but it turns out he's a hot-head or it was just that astounding to him. Though if he knew half of what he thought he knew then he'd know the Skywalker line's uncanny ability to avoid or escape bad guys he'd have seen it coming! In fact, he'd have called his Hutt bookie and places a sizable bet on his escape. Those kind of winnings would make a man rich enough to let huim claim the title of EMPEROR!!!.....oh yeah...well better luck next time.
Rav's continued use of oxygen i can forgive. At first i set the comic right down and left it be for a couple minutes because i was unhappy that he'd not recieved the death he richly deserves. but after reading the rest and having a day to think about it i have decided that Rav's much more fun and useful (to the overall title run) alive to create story-creating conflict than dead this early on.
And who is that armored stalker? Looks like the guy outside my bedroom window. What are they doing out there?
Master Luc
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Darth-Ghost
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
5/8 11:43am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
- Date Edited:
5/8 11:50am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Darth-Ghost
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Emperor_Time posted:
So which parts of the myth of Iego is true and which parts are false?
It looks like just a normal barren planet to me, we only see it in the last few pages. But you can see a lot of moons on your way in. Jariah does joke about the angel myth, though.
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Emperor_Time
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
5/8 11:50am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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Darth-Ghost posted:
Emperor_Time posted:
So which parts of the myth of Iego is true and which parts are false?
It looks like just a normal barren planet to me, we only see it in the last few pages. But you can see a lot of moons on your way in.
That great to hear since the myth of Iego is suppose to be completely barren with no way of growing any plants with only water on the planet and has about 42 moons as well. 
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Havac
Title: Lit Mod of War Against the Aztecs
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
5/8 11:54am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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Hmmm. So Cade loves Blue . . . I have to wonder how much longer she has to live. As interested as I would be to see a Skywalker end up with a nonhuman, I'm not sure how likely it is.
And I'm not seeing what's wrong with Roan worrying about having a powerful asset like Cade off wandering around and hooking up with the Sith -- he's got reason to think he's gone dark, and I don't see why he wouldn't sic some IKs on him in that situation.
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Darth-Ghost
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
5/8 11:59am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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Still, I think Roan's behavior is foreshadowing of something to come. I wonder if he assigned Marasiah to the team (presumably to find Cade) because she now has a bond with him too for saving her life, like the one between Cade and Wolf, so she might be able to find him more easily than just Antares and Ganner.
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AdmiralNick22
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
5/8 12:53pm
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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Havac posted:
Hmmm. So Cade loves Blue . . . I have to wonder how much longer she has to live. As interested as I would be to see a Skywalker end up with a nonhuman, I'm not sure how likely it is.
And I'm not seeing what's wrong with Roan worrying about having a powerful asset like Cade off wandering around and hooking up with the Sith -- he's got reason to think he's gone dark, and I don't see why he wouldn't sic some IKs on him in that situation.
Roan's reaction to Cade is not suprising. Especially when you consider that he is an Emperor without an Empire who is trying to rally forces to his side. I imagine that much of his day is devoted to reaching out to loyal officers still working for Krayt. That, or constantly making sure that the defenses of Bastion are not allowed to be lax. One little misstep, one error, and the Imperial Navy could suddenly appear and BDZ Bastion.
This creates alot of stress on the character. Which is good storytelling, as well as realistic.
In that respect, Roan and Stazi are not all that different. Sure one fought for a democracy and the other a empire, but both definately feel the weight of their respective causes on their shoulders.
--Adm. Nick
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Bly
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
5/8 12:54pm
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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Excellent issue as always, although it's a pity Rav didn't bite it. Rawk's family seemed pretty neat; I cannot wait to see more of them. The obligatory bounty hunter is a tad irritating, but other than that, I really enjoyed this.
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Emperor_Time
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
5/8 12:58pm
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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So the preview wasn't a dream sequence?
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