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Topic:
Legacy #23: Loyalties
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BobaMatt
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/11 11:28am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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Jedi Trace posted:
Musing: I gotta disagree with your summation of Cade. Future issues could prove me wrong, but I really don't think Cade would go to the trouble of reconciling with Deliah if she was nothing more than a mechanic and feel-good warm body in his bed. They may have started like that (we don't know) but I'm guessing that Cade probably had a lot of time to re-think his life while in Sith temple and came to a realization of his own about his relationship with Deliah.
Possible, though it seemed to me that he's known for a while that he loved her, even if he wasn't willing to admit it or do anything about it. In fact, he may have been actively suppressing it, given the way he feels about himself and the people he lets get close, and his treatment of her may have been precisely because of his feelings for her.
Jedi Trace posted:
And I'd like to think that Deliah would have enough self-respect not to hang around if she suspected that he was lying and/or truly just using her.
::shrug::
Emotions do funny things to people. Like I said, she probably wasn't giving up hope.
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Musing
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
5/11 11:33am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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BobaMatt posted:
Ha...actually what I meant is that when Deliah saw Cade kissing Talon and had to deal with her feelings, believing that Cade wasn't thinking about her, too, she reached a breaking point, realizing she was wasting her time. She then found she was wrong: Cade loves her after all.
I still don't believe that Cade loves her the way she wants him to. For that matter, I doubt that she really loves him. In #0, it's mentioned that her interest seems to stem from a desire to "fix" him the way she does the Mynock. She certainly acts possessive of him, given her jealous reaction to his involvement with Talon and the fact that she doesn't seem to care what his reasons are for pretending to be Sith, beyond how it relates to her.
Frankly, I don't see them in a lasting relationship - they're both immature, self-centered and too likely to act on their emotions without thinking things through first. If Morrigan Corde/Nyna Calixte hadn't shown up when she did and taken control of things, both Cade and Deliah would have been dead, and possibly have gotten Jeriah killed to boot. As it is, it's not healthy for Cade to become dependent on Deliah for dealing with his darkness. What happens if she gets killed - a distinct possibility for anyone involved with a Skywalker?
Deliah and Cade (and Jeriah, for that matter  ) may eventually grow up, but it's debatable whether they'll survive long enough to do it.
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Jedi Trace
Title: SouthEast RSA
Fan Fic Mngr
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Registered:
Dec '99
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Date Posted:
5/11 11:42am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
- Date Edited:
5/11 11:45am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jedi Trace
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BobaMatt posted:
Possible, though it seemed to me that he's known for a while that he loved her, even if he wasn't willing to admit it or do anything about it. In fact, he may have been actively suppressing it, given the way he feels about himself and the people he lets get close, and his treatment of her may have been precisely because of his feelings for her.
That's a really good point.  I hadn't thought of it like that, but you're right - it would be very in-character for him to suppress/hide his feelings, considering his previous self-destructive behaviors.
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Captain of the Cade Brigade: "Always bringing up his rear"  “In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.” ~ Elwood P. Dowd
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Robimus
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
5/11 8:53pm
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
- Date Edited:
5/11 8:54pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Robimus
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I am still trying to figure out Dark Horse release dates. I just got #22 finally last week and suddenly #23 is waiting for me....not that I'm complaining. 
I really enjoyed the whole Antares/Marasiah love story with him being torn between the Emporer and her. Well done!
Cade remains the most unlikable hero I think I've seen in "Star Wars". I just don't get what everyone see's in the unloyal, disrespectful bum. That murderous rampage he went on was pretty un-jedi like. He marched into Rav's palace with every intention of murdering every low life in there......I think Cade needs sensitivity training or something. He's a Dark Jedi in my eyes, with the only hope for the galaxy being Fel and the Imperial Knights joining forces with the real Jedi. 
And where are the Jedi on Ossus? We need to see whats happening with them sooner than later......
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RebelGrrl
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
5/11 9:10pm
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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I don't think that Cade was being a dark Jedi at all in this issue.
The coloring is pretty explicit as to when Cade is using the Dark Side and when he's not. Not once in his issue does he have Sith eyes, and there are panels of art giving us a clear close-up view of his eyes in emphasis. It's the shorthand that's been used through-out the series so far.
What Cade does isn't anything Obi-Wan Kenobi or Luke Skywalker himself would have shied from. He goes into Rav's hang-out and demands Rav give back the Grinning Liar. Rav launchs his goons at Cade and Co. in response. Cade and Co. proceed to kick *** in self-defense. Then Cade threatens Rav with his lightsaber and the Force. AND LETS HIM GO on Rav's oath and promise to give back the ship.
What about that is 'Dark Jedi'? He's not even touching the Dark Side. He's not doing it for personal gain. He could have just dropped Chak and Kee out the nearest airlock and not bothered to get them their ship back.
Certainly, Cade is not the fine, upstanding citizen we might expect of the Skywalker line, and you are certainly free to dislike him, but let's not call him something he isn't.
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s65horsey
Title: EUC Manager
SWC Lil' Sis
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Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
5/11 9:20pm
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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How is what Cade did different from what Luke did in Jabba's palace to get Han back? I don't see it as much different and in fact see a lot of similarities between the two situations.
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Robimus
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
5/11 9:47pm
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
- Date Edited:
5/11 9:49pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Robimus
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s65horsey posted:
How is what Cade did different from what Luke did in Jabba's palace to get Han back? I don't see it as much different and in fact see a lot of similarities between the two situations.
Cade was after a ship, not a person. Luke was bargaining, not demanding. Cade was interested in teaching Rav a lesson, and knew exactly how Rav would respond ahead of time. I'm not calling him a Sith by any means, but I still maintain that Dark Jedi fits. How difficult would it have really been for him to retake that ship without the confrontation?
Really how is it similar to Luke at all? Luke gave Jabba multiple chances and went so far as to end up on the edge of a skiff plank before taking action. "I wish to bargain with your greatness for Solo's life, and I offer you a gift...." Very different approaches to a similar situation meesa thinks. 
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Oh, woe! Oh, misery! Oh, unhappiness. Hooley Krekk where are you?
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RebelGrrl
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
5/11 9:59pm
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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Not even Luke was naive enough to think that Jabba was just going to give up Han or that bargaining would work. The droids were sent in with such a message to get them in the Palace and positioned. "Nevertheless, I'm taking Captain Solo and his friends. You can either profit by this... or be destroyed! It's your choice." doesn't sound like 'bargaining', it sounds like an ultimatum.
Luke's plan used subterfuge and infiltration.
Cade's plan used direct confrontation.
Both had the same goals and results. The difference in objective between the rescue of a person or the righting of a wrong doesn't tip the scales towards 'Dark Jedi'.
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Well-behaved women seldom make history.
You can't fix stupid and you can't reason with crazy.
Happiness is a warm Hoojib!
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Emperor_Time
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
5/11 10:10pm
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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Does anyone else think of Zayne and Cade as polar opposites when it comes to being a Jedi? 
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Jedi Trace
Title: SouthEast RSA
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Registered:
Dec '99
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Date Posted:
5/11 10:31pm
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
- Date Edited:
5/11 10:35pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jedi Trace
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I agree with RebelGrrl and Sey's comments, and I'd venture to say that this issue was actually the least dark we've ever seen Cade. Granted, he's not in any danger of being the poster boy for Jedi recruitment any time soon, but he did nothing intrinsically dark or evil and did not attack until provoked - even if he was snarky about it. This was also the first time we've seen him use his blue-glowy power without tapping into the dark side.
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Captain of the Cade Brigade: "Always bringing up his rear" “In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.” ~ Elwood P. Dowd
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Emperor_Time
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
5/11 10:51pm
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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At the rate things are going, Cade might be a father by issue #50. 
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That Zayne is Shmi's ancestor theory for the win.
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Grand_Admiral_Sean8
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
5/11 10:52pm
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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Robimus posted:
I am still trying to figure out Dark Horse release dates.
Albert Einstein formulated a Special Theory of Dark Horse Release Dates in which a comic's plot speed is a universal constant regardless of the relative speed of the reader. The effective result is that, from the perspective of a stationary nerd calling his local comic emporium every afternoon, comics with extremely fast-paced plots take an infinitely distended length of time to actually arrive at the freaking store. For instance, a comic containing a pivotal plot point will spend seven years en route from the printing press in Milwaukee, yet can be read in only fifteen minutes.
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Gabri_Jade
Title: Fan Fiction Archive Editor Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/12 12:18am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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Grand_Admiral_Sean8 posted:
Robimus posted:
I am still trying to figure out Dark Horse release dates.
Albert Einstein formulated a Special Theory of Dark Horse Release Dates in which a comic's plot speed is a universal constant regardless of the relative speed of the reader. The effective result is that, from the perspective of a stationary nerd calling his local comic emporium every afternoon, comics with extremely fast-paced plots take an infinitely distended length of time to actually arrive at the freaking store. For instance, a comic containing a pivotal plot point will spend seven years en route from the printing press in Milwaukee, yet can be read in only fifteen minutes.
As a fairly new comic reader, I am learning the truth of this, much to my chagrin. 
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Jedi Trace
Title: SouthEast RSA
Fan Fic Mngr
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Registered:
Dec '99
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Date Posted:
5/12 12:40am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
- Date Edited:
5/12 12:42am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jedi Trace
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Gabri: You and me, both. 
Us former novel-only readers have to get acclimated to this thing called "delayed".... 
-----signature-----
Captain of the Cade Brigade: "Always bringing up his rear" “In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.” ~ Elwood P. Dowd
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BobaMatt
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/12 2:15am
Subject:
RE: Legacy #23: Loyalties
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You make up for it in the increased awesome:page ratio.
-----signature-----
The Clone Wars is OT quality good. Really. Emperor Fel's badassery knows no bounds. As Father and Son (An AU RP) - Looking for a few good replacements...see profile for info. http://boards.theforce.net/role_playing_forum/b10328/28357048/p1/?10
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