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Topic:
The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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dp4m
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
3/26 8:25am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Lord_Hydronium posted:
No it doesn't. It just says that he made a cartoon later about Dantooine. That's like the ANH-is-a-movie-by-Voren argument, except with even less support, because at least that one has an explicit link between the two.
Databank posted:
Paxi watched with awe as Windu and his troops defeated the Separatists. He was spellbound, and for the next few weeks, his doodle-datapad was filled with crude illustrations of Mace Windu single-handedly destroying a seismic tank. It was all the young boy could talk about.
History has lost track of whatever became of Paxi Sylo. By the time of the Empire, the Sylo farm had been completely abandoned. However, at the height of Palpatine's New Order, a bootleg animated holographic video file began propagating in the shadier parts of the HoloNet. It depicted the heroic exploits of Mace Windu on Dantooine.
If you don't think that's an explanation for the CW cartoons, that's your perogotive but to say that there's NO argument is silly.
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QuentinGeorge
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
3/26 1:01pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Where does it say it depicted anything except "Mace Windu's exploits on Dantooine"?
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dp4m
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
3/26 1:29pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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QuentinGeorge posted:
Where does it say it depicted anything except "Mace Windu's exploits on Dantooine"?
It doesn't. The point is more that it says that there was an animated thing about Mace on Dantooine, for which an argument CAN be made that it was the episode we saw.
If that's the case, the rest of the episodes are in the same style and could also have been done by Paxi.
Granted, there's no proof this is the case but there IS a case to be made. Certainly you can't hold it against anyone who believes one way or the other.
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"Looks like you're about to get pwned" - Eric Cartman
"Awarding experience points for cleverly and creatively generating an enjoyable experience. How warped is that?" - Darths & Droids
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Lord_Hydronium
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
3/26 1:42pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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dp4m posted:
QuentinGeorge posted:
Where does it say it depicted anything except "Mace Windu's exploits on Dantooine"?
It doesn't. The point is more that it says that there was an animated thing about Mace on Dantooine, for which an argument CAN be made that it was the episode we saw.
If that's the case, the rest of the episodes are in the same style and could also have been done by Paxi.
Granted, there's no proof this is the case but there IS a case to be made. Certainly you can't hold it against anyone who believes one way or the other.
Maybe not, but "it specifically says that the Dantooine episodes were his" is incorrect, I'm sure you'd agree. 
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
3/26 2:31pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
3/26 2:38pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
dp4m
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Ah, good. I was hoping to get in one more... as always, please don't comment about users and bait them, even if mods. Please try and comment solely on the arguments presented.
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SuperWatto
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
3/26 4:32pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Man, I wonder what was there...
Okay, here's a hypothesis: those (not many) who survive this thread without mod interference have the chops to apply for a mod position.
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
3/29 8:43pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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I posted this in the SOS thread, but only one person responded there, so I'm going to post my question here:
How did Luke know that Jacen was going to take his Stealth X out of the Anakin Solo and fly by himself to survey the battle arena? Luke and the Jedi's whole plan for Jacen/Caedus here seemed to be to capture Jacen and take him to where they could talk to him and deprogram him. Did they just make up this plan on the spur of the moment when they saw him flying around in his X-Wing? What would they have done if he had remained in the Anakin Solo?
If this was their plan all along, it seems like a pretty silly "plan" to me. I was actually quite surprised that Jacen would go out in an X-wing in a major battle arena. It seems like one of the LAST things Luke should have expected Jacen to do. Most commanders don't leave their posts when fighting is imminent.
Any comments?
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BobaMatt
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
3/29 8:53pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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I think that LotF has done a pretty good job of making Luke sort of mysteriously powerful, of being able to do things even other powerful Force users don't really understand. I think this is one of those instances.
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
3/29 9:40pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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BobaMatt
I think that LotF has done a pretty good job of making Luke sort of mysteriously powerful, of being able to do things even other powerful Force users don't really understand. I think this is one of those instances.
I'm not confused about how Luke accomplished it. What I don't understand is how he could have expected Jacen to be out alone in a Stealth X right before a major battle? What would he have done if Jacen had remained aboard the Anakin Solo? Or would he have just not tried to go after Jacen at that time if Jacen hadn't been out there?
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BobaMatt
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
3/29 9:57pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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I don't think Luke predicted it. I think Luke realized what Jacen was doing - however he sensed Jacen, even shut down in the Force - and then made his move.
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Nobody145
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
3/29 10:33pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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The annoying and stupid thing is that this kind of thing just happened in the last book! You know, when in Fury Caedus, in all his paranoid and idiotic glory decided to go out on a joyride with Allana in case his parents planted a bomb onboard his ship. Luke was coming to take out Caedus anyway, and thanks to that handy tracking device they stuck on his cloak (the traitorous cloak ), they were able to track Caedus through conventional means, since its hard to keep track of Caedus through the Force these days. The only reason Luke didn't shoot Caedus down then was because Allana was on board too.
I think Luke's sabotage of the Anakin Solo back in Inferno had Luke at his best and most mysteriously powerful in LotF so far. Luke barely appeared in this book, and he can't even properly explain what a Sith is to Niathal and he "lets" the minelayer crews get blown up, and then the only thing the Jedi do is hide a few ships for a little bit. Then they don't do anything for the rest of the book.
I can understand Luke still trying to pull his nephew back from the darkside, but I just wish they had explained why Luke's attitude had changed from ending the threat his nephew posed to the galaxy permanently if necessary to just trying to scold Caedus in this book. And it was probably just a spur of the moment thing too for Luke to give another try at.
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J_K_DART
Registered:
Dec '01
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Date Posted:
3/30 8:16am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Yeah, I took it as a spur-of-the-moment plan - another indication of Luke's power. Either that or he had a Force-prediction.
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patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
3/30 8:30am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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ChildOfWinds posted:
I posted this in the SOS thread, but only one person responded there, so I'm going to post my question here:
How did Luke know that Jacen was going to take his Stealth X out of the Anakin Solo and fly by himself to survey the battle arena?
It was a total spur of the moment thing...or Luke has a spy on the ship, which is still VERY possible. Jacen was also getting VERY fancy with his hyperspace jumps, and I don't think hee was hiding as well as he could have been. Also, as pedestrian as it sounds, a fleet commander just can't go for a stroll around the solar system with a LOT of communications chatter between ships of the fleet. If Luke can at all listen into their comm channels, he can hear them discussin that "JCoS is off ship", and once they know he's out there, just throw a massive illusion out into local space and wait for Jacen to break radio silence.
Then track him, and hang onto him once you have him. Everything was predicated on getting the ship to show itself. The damage was mean tto produce sparks, the one collission was meant to open a leak in fluid to form a trail of frozen vapour they could follow, etc.
The only thing that saves him is not so much that Luke won't kill him (although, part of it) is that Luke didn't want to kill innocents by following Jacen's flying through a support ship stunt.
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Sinrebirth
Title: SWC Galactic Senate Host
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
3/30 9:16am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Nobody145 posted:
I can understand Luke still trying to pull his nephew back from the darkside, but I just wish they had explained why Luke's attitude had changed from ending the threat his nephew posed to the galaxy permanently if necessary to just trying to scold Caedus in this book. And it was probably just a spur of the moment thing too for Luke to give another try at.
I don't think a rational and functional Luke would want to beat the stuffing out of Caedus, or shoot him down. Our Luke, the properly active and confident one, hasn't been around since he finally broke free of the maze of responsibilities he'd wove himself and killed Lumiya. It wasn't until half way through Fury that Ben and him had the heart-to-heart they needed to help Luke get back on his feet properly.
Our Luke didn't attack the Anakin Solo to kill Caedus, no, he went there to distract him so Allana could be saved. That's why he went to try and capture, rather than kill, Caedus. He's going through the motions that he has with every darksider since Kyp, but stopped doing somewhat when he encountered the Yuuzhan Vong.
Why? Because Luke became Grandmaster. Became a politician. Became something other than Luke.
I think he hasn't been Luke since the Yuuzhan Vong War, myself. Not because of characterisation issues, but because Luke never faced the Yuuzhan Vong, Vergere's philosophy, being a Grandmaster, before. He became wrapped within his responsibilities as Kyp fractured the Order, then even moreso when the Yuuzhan Vong pressed down, the Order clinging to him. After the Dark Nest Crisis, he was forced to take even more, and his web of responsibilities grew too thick to see the true issues perfectly.
The GA, Cal Omas, the Order, his family, his friends. The moral conundrum the Corellian's represented by simultaneously crying for freedom while arming itself with Centerpoint. Then Lumiya appeared, and he went after her because she seemed the most obvious evil he could throw himself at - which is what Luke is exceptional at. But that wouldn't solve the war, end the crisis.
But then Mara died, and Luke threw all that aside, and for a moment could have become Luke, but he made a mistake and slew Lumiya. After that shattering blow from her, Luke collapsed. He didn't try to redeem Caedus, he simply leapt at him. Didn't try to reason. He reacted.
Our Luke would have acted with confidence, and assured of his role. Like he did against Brakiss, and Kueller, and Desann, and Exar Kun, and Shimmra. He wouldn't slay unnecessarily. Luke made a mistake, and it took him until Ben could explain it to him, midway through Fury, that Luke became Luke again.
Which is why he protected civilians with the Force, saved the Fondor fleet, tried to capture Caedus, secured Niathal a capital at Fondor - Luke isn't a murderer, isn't a Grandmaster. He's the Son of Anakin Skywalker.
And that's why Luke was trying to turn him back this time. In Fury, Caedus is surrounded by his fleet, his zealous followers, and poised to crush Corellia, and Luke isn't even here to redeem him. He isn't going to turn back in that situation, is he? He's no Vader.
*shrugs*
I haven't seen a problem with Luke's characterisation or motives yet.
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J_K_DART
Registered:
Dec '01
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Date Posted:
3/30 4:49pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Revelation discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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'Yet' being the operative term 
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