Jedi Council Forums - Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?

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Author	Topic: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 2/8/08 11:57am Subject: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good? - Date Edited: 2/8/08 12:06pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Charlemagne19
	Basically, I was talking about the Imperial Knights in another thread and it occurred to me that Timothy Zahn and a lot of other very talented and popular military science fiction authors come from the "David Weber" stable of writers that romances the militaristic and nobility while downgrading both revolutionary and liberal. I say this as an Honor Harrington fan. It's interesting to me that the Empire has been, ostensibly, allies of the Star Wars Republic yet in the jump to Legacy it's now back to the Empire being Sith controlled and Bad guys. (Roan Fel's guys are just a Rebellion, not the REAL Empire) So, what do you think?
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Jedimarine Registered: Feb '01	Date Posted: 2/8/08 12:06pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good? - Date Edited: 2/8/08 12:07pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Jedimarine
	I think the circus of how the "Empires" have gone from bad to good to bad again and on to whatever only shows that pegging the good/bad to a body can only go so far before you do have to way the actions...and in Star Wars that focuses almost entirely on the actions of the rulers. tangent: I would be fascinated to find out just how much involvement the Sith of LEGACY have with the day to day bureaucratic hogwash of government...we don't see anything like that...we see assassins and Sithly studies...I haven't seen a Sith collecting a tax or balancing a budget...and we have no concept of whether this is any different from the Fel government before them, or the GA before them, or from the Old Republic in some respects. Good and Bad for the reader/viewer is wrapped up in the personal behavior and commands of the leadership. Now as I stated in the other post...I believe the mythos of Star Wars does contain a slant against "Empires" in general as not being by nature good or harmonious with the force in the long term. This does lead to the stories within the universe causing their downfall, no matter where they are (I suspect the monarchy in the Hapes Consortium will not rule forever either). But that doesn't mean that these bodies are inherently evil, nor that their contributions are fruitless or tainted. Even Emperor Palpatine's New Order had benefits for the galaxy...they just were at far to high a price to bear. -----signature----- So Devaronian females are suppose to have thick fur, eh? Has anyone seen one outside an essential guide? ... When even the creative teams refuse to make fuzzy Devaronians...it should be a clue, folks. Thus endeth the lesson.
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The_Loyal_Imperial Title: C&G Game Host Registered: Nov '07	Date Posted: 2/8/08 12:07pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good? - Date Edited: 2/8/08 12:09pm (3 edits total) Edited By: The_Loyal_Imperial
	Here are my thoughts. I do believe that eventually they will restore the throne to the rightful Emperor. In the end, I expect they'll have the galaxy split between the benevolent Empire and the Alliance, fans of both sides will be happy, and there will be plenty of material for stories in the future.
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Trip Registered: Dec '03	Date Posted: 2/8/08 12:08pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	Charles, how many times are you going to start this thread? -----signature----- RIP Jacen's Crotch 1991 - 2008
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Earthknight Registered: Oct '02	Date Posted: 2/8/08 12:11pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	Charlemagne19 posted: Basically, I was talking about the Imperial Knights in another thread and it occurred to me that Timothy Zahn and a lot of other very talented and popular military science fiction authors come from the "David Weber" stable of writers that romances the militaristic and nobility while downgrading both revolutionary and liberal. I say this as an Honor Harrington fan. It's interesting to me that the Empire has been, ostensibly, allies of the Star Wars Republic yet in the jump to Legacy it's now back to the Empire being Sith controlled and Bad guys. (Roan Fel's guys are just a Rebellion, not the REAL Empire) So, what do you think? Actually Krayt's Empire is like Revan's Empire. The real Empire is like the Republic in KOTOR. -----signature----- Master to jacensolofangirl2007 Our philosophy: We strive for a 100 in awesomeness. And if we get a 90, it's still cool. ~My Fanfiction Stories~ The Guardians of Light- http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=259245
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Jedimarine Registered: Feb '01	Date Posted: 2/8/08 12:12pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	The_Loyal_Imperial posted: Here are my thoughts. I do believe that eventually they will restore the throne to the rightful Emperor. In the end, I expect they'll have the galaxy split between the benevolent Empire and the Alliance, fans of both sides will be happy, and there will be plenty of material for stories in the future. We can have a fractured canon! Stories from the perspective of the Alliance, who see any Empire as evil and contrary to the force. and Stories from the Empire, who see rebels who are uncompromising in their zealous passion against a government that does a decent job in service to it's many citizens. this could be amazing...and I'd have to read both! -----signature----- So Devaronian females are suppose to have thick fur, eh? Has anyone seen one outside an essential guide? ... When even the creative teams refuse to make fuzzy Devaronians...it should be a clue, folks. Thus endeth the lesson.
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 2/8/08 12:21pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good? - Date Edited: 2/8/08 12:22pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Charlemagne19
	Earthknight posted: Actually Krayt's Empire is like Revan's Empire. The real Empire is like the Republic in KOTOR. The Old Republic was a hereditary monarchy with an oligarchy Privy Council? Trip posted: Charles, how many times are you going to start this thread? Once? This is a thread about the Legacy Empire. Not the Pellaeon Empire. Seriously, if you don't want to participate, don't post. I'm sure we'll find some way to get along (though I do enjoy your insights)
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Trip Registered: Dec '03	Date Posted: 2/8/08 12:35pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good? - Date Edited: 2/8/08 12:37pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Trip
	Charlemagne19 posted: Seriously, if you don't want to participate, don't post. I'm sure we'll find some way to get along Don't get me wrong, Charles, I like you just fine. I just feel like a similarly-themed thread pops up every few weeks or so (and I shouldn't be blaming you specifically, sorry)... isn't there an existing one that would serve the same purpose? C19 posted: (though I do enjoy your insights) Aw, gee. -----signature----- RIP Jacen's Crotch 1991 - 2008
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 2/8/08 12:44pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	I just feel like a similarly-themed thread pops up every few weeks or so (and I shouldn't be blaming you specifically, sorry)... isn't there an existing one that would serve the same purpose? Well, I made this thread because I didn't think it was on-topic in IK.
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Sinrebirth Title: Sith Emperor of the SWC Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 2/8/08 1:06pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	Trip posted: I just feel like a similarly-themed thread pops up every few weeks or so (and I shouldn't be blaming you specifically, sorry)... isn't there an existing one that would serve the same purpose? Musings in an Imperial Void: How do you make the Empire loveable to the masses? Similar, but this thread does have a distinctively different direction. chuckles Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good? It turned good under Pellaeon, and it has remained it since, mostly. The True Empire remains good. It's just a pity the majority is now in the Sith Empire. -----signature----- Darth Insipid Proud Fan of the Tragedy of Jacen Solo Missing Chapters of Invincible; Teaser of Chapter 9.5 is up! Wes vs Tarfang, Gavin and the Coup, Luke and Jacen, and much more! http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28933751/p3/?70
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 2/8/08 1:10pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good? - Date Edited: 2/8/08 1:20pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	The Empire is and has always been, evil. It can't be good. It's Palpatine's creation. The Fels can think otherwise, but the Empire itself will prove them wrong. It's a rotten, corrupt system, beyond redemption. Sometimes it can be a force for good through an alliance with the good guys, if they have the same enemy, but afterwards it goes evil again. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker, the new Jar-Jar!
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AdmiralNick22 Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 2/8/08 1:35pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	The_Loyal_Imperial posted: Here are my thoughts. I do believe that eventually they will restore the throne to the rightful Emperor. In the end, I expect they'll have the galaxy split between the benevolent Empire and the Alliance, fans of both sides will be happy, and there will be plenty of material for stories in the future. Well said my friend. Frankly, an enlarged and benevolent Empire is not a threat to galactic security. Fel's loyalist faction does not seem to care about typical "Imperial" concerns- like regaining the Core, opressing aliens, etc. Hence why a powerful Empire based on Bastion is no problem. The Alliance could maintain its control of the Core, Colonies, and Inner Rim, as well as its terriotry in the Mid and Outer Rim. Having both in power just plain works. And, most interestingly enough, most fans of the Fel Empire have no interest in it supplanting the Alliance. Instead, "modern" Imperial fans of the Fel sort are happy with a powerful and concentrated Empire in the Rim. One at peace with the Galactic Alliance. --Adm. Nick -----signature----- Fleet Junkie Founding Father Official Greatest Admiral Ackbar Fan "A peaceful Galactic Alliance is the strongest pillar of a peaceful galaxy." - Luke Skywalker "I will surrender, Admiral, when I can no longer fight!" - Admiral Gar Stazi A New Hope
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 2/8/08 1:38pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good? - Date Edited: 2/8/08 1:39pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	Let's not give large part of the galaxy on a golden platter to a one family yet. After the Sith have been defeated, just let each planet vote in a free and democratic referendum whether they want to be independent or join some other, larger government: GA, the Fel Empire, Chiss Ascendancy, Hapes Consortium etc. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker, the new Jar-Jar!
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 2/8/08 1:42pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	I love the Legacy Empire for the fact that it is evil, yet has that seductive alluring side that an excellent adversary requires. The whole point of SW is that empires are inevitably wrong, that they become corrupted and evil - that they arise from good intentions is entirely irrelevant, for it's known where that road leads... Not to mention in the 30s serials that influenced SW greatly there was always an evil totalitarian empire, likely of a Communist nature, as an adversary. It's just a sad fact that no matter how appealing the notion of a benevolent despot is, the concept is a contradiction in terms. -----signature----- Excellence: "You are the forum's Quick Ben." SW EU fans: John Ostrander needs your help! http://www.comix4sight.com
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Carnage04 Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 2/8/08 2:33pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	Well, I have to say that Empires are not inherently wrong. It just so happens that sentients in that position of power tend to run draconian regimes. If you take any iteration of the Empire and put say....Bail Organa in charge you will end up with a good (Or at least more Good than Evil) Empire. Toss Palpatine on the throne and you wind up with an evil Empire. The problem with an Empire is that it's personality is going to depend heavily on the person currently occupying the throne (As well as his/her true level of influence but for the sake of argument let us say that their influence and power is unquestioned and absolute). In a certain sense, an Empire has the potential to be more "Good" than any galaxy spanning Democracy/Republic. A Republic is certain to have corrupt and Evil elements in it whereas there may come an Emperor who is always fair, just, and kind. On the flipside, checks and balances inside a Republic are going to keep the Lunatic fringe from absolutely taking over...moderating the extent of Good or Evil in that government. An Empire on the other hand (Barring assassination or non-bloody coup) lacks those checks and balances and can swing as wide to the Evil side, as wide to the Good Side, or as close to the middle as the Emperor chooses. -----signature----- Carnage I Finally decided to use a signature after 3500 posts! 3500 posts * 7 Characters = 24500 keystrokes wasted
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Quiet_Mandalorian Registered: Apr '05	Date Posted: 2/8/08 4:21pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	Jedi Ben posted: I love Palpatine's Empire for the fact that it is evil, yet has that seductive alluring side that an excellent adversary requires. Fixed. -----signature----- Fey'la was right! Bring Asyr Sei'lar to justice!
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