Author Topic: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
AdmiralNick22  6913 posts
Registered: May '03
7783_Ackbar
Date Posted: 2/8/08 5:18pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Rouge77 posted:
Let's not give large part of the galaxy on a golden platter to a one family yet.

After the Sith have been defeated, just let each planet vote in a free and democratic referendum whether they want to be independent or join some other, larger government: GA, the Fel Empire, Chiss Ascendancy, Hapes Consortium etc.


I fully agree. And, IMO, I expect the majority to rejoin the Galactic Alliance. Still, it would not be suprising to see the old Remnant worlds join Fel again, as well as those worlds that the Imperial Mission had a positive affect on/

--Adm. Nick

 

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GrandAdmiralJello  59900 posts
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Date Posted: 2/8/08 5:47pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good? - Date Edited: 2/8/08 5:49pm (1 edits total) Edited By: GrandAdmiralJello
Charlemagne19 posted:
(Roan Fel's guys are just a Rebellion, not the REAL Empire)



Legacy 0.5 directly contradicts your claim. And you did say you'd quit making that same claim, but you repeatedly do. Would it trouble you too much to keep your word?




Nick posted:
Fel's loyalist faction does not seem to care about typical "Imperial" concerns- like regaining the Core, opressing aliens, etc. Hence why a powerful Empire based on Bastion is no problem. The Alliance could maintain its control of the Core, Colonies, and Inner Rim, as well as its terriotry in the Mid and Outer Rim.

Having both in power just plain works. And, most interestingly enough, most fans of the Fel Empire have no interest in it supplanting the Alliance. Instead, "modern" Imperial fans of the Fel sort are happy with a powerful and concentrated Empire in the Rim.


No.

You can have the Rim. That's where the Rebellion was founded, remember? Your group has more roots there and mine more in the Core.

 

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Corusca_One  641 posts
Registered: Oct '05
48803_11 - Rebel Dawn
Date Posted: 2/8/08 6:15pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
GrandAdmiralJello posted:

Nick posted:
Fel's loyalist faction does not seem to care about typical "Imperial" concerns- like regaining the Core, opressing aliens, etc. Hence why a powerful Empire based on Bastion is no problem. The Alliance could maintain its control of the Core, Colonies, and Inner Rim, as well as its terriotry in the Mid and Outer Rim.

Having both in power just plain works. And, most interestingly enough, most fans of the Fel Empire have no interest in it supplanting the Alliance. Instead, "modern" Imperial fans of the Fel sort are happy with a powerful and concentrated Empire in the Rim.


No.

You can have the Rim. That's where the Rebellion was founded, remember? Your group has more roots there and mine more in the Core.


Sounds like a couple who have been through a messy divorce. tongue

In recent EU i've started to see the Empire/Imperial Remnant portrayed very differently to how it was seemingly conceived. Not just that they do more 'good' deeds and side with the good guys but also in the way they shape the galaxy.

Regardless of whether they are claiming to be a Remnant or an Empire itself they seem to act as a counter balance to the Alliance. We have seen the Alliance's first attempt at a government effectively fail, becoming almost as corrupted as the Empire it deposed, since its reformation it seems to be fairing better (give or take the odd civil war).

The way I see it, it is difficult to pin the galaxy under the control of any single government as someone will always oppose it. By being given more choice and by having more than one government to keep control there seems more chance for peace in the galaxy as a whole.

In this way I can imagine a stable galaxy with the Empire acting as the Yin to the Alliance's Yang. Of course... should a less than benevolent leader take control it can quickly unbalance the fragile galaxy.

 

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AdmiralNick22  6913 posts
Registered: May '03
7783_Ackbar
Date Posted: 2/8/08 6:19pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
GrandAdmiralJello posted:
Charlemagne19 posted:
(Roan Fel's guys are just a Rebellion, not the REAL Empire)



Legacy 0.5 directly contradicts your claim. And you did say you'd quit making that same claim, but you repeatedly do. Would it trouble you too much to keep your word?




Nick posted:
Fel's loyalist faction does not seem to care about typical "Imperial" concerns- like regaining the Core, opressing aliens, etc. Hence why a powerful Empire based on Bastion is no problem. The Alliance could maintain its control of the Core, Colonies, and Inner Rim, as well as its terriotry in the Mid and Outer Rim.

Having both in power just plain works. And, most interestingly enough, most fans of the Fel Empire have no interest in it supplanting the Alliance. Instead, "modern" Imperial fans of the Fel sort are happy with a powerful and concentrated Empire in the Rim.


No.

You can have the Rim. That's where the Rebellion was founded, remember? Your group has more roots there and mine more in the Core.


Jello-

You are incorrect my friend. While Palpatine's Empire had its powerbase in the Core, the same is not said for the Remnant. Don't forget that Fel's Empire is the sucessor to Pellaeon's Remnant. As a result, Fel grew up with his domains "core" being Bastion, Yaga Minor, Muunilinst, etc.

While I understand you own personal love for the Core, you must admit that saying that the New Empire has its roots in the Core is a bit of a stretch.

Furthermore, the Palpatine's Empire controlled the Core for no more than three decades. Whereas the New Republic held it for at least two decades, while the Galactic Alliance held it for nearly a century before the Sith-Imperial War. So based on time alone, few people alive in the Core remember Palpatine's reign. And one would expect that they are firmly established int he GA heirarchy and political structure. happy

Of course, knowing you as well as I do, I imagine you will do your best to refute my claims. tongue

I would expect nothing less from you, my old friend. happy hugs

--Adm. Nick

 

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Charlemagne19  26812 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 2/8/08 6:20pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Legacy 0.5 directly contradicts your claim. And you did say you'd quit making that same claim, but you repeatedly do. Would it trouble you too much to keep your word?

And is Cal Omas the real Republic.

Roan Fel is the legitimate Emperor, I'm not disputing that. However, you claim Palpatine is the legal ruler of the galaxy under the same pretext that you decry that Krayt is the ruler of the Empire.

So :-p

 

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Havac  14250 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 2/8/08 6:59pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Rouge77 posted:
The Empire is and has always been, evil. It can't be good. It's Palpatine's creation. The Fels can think otherwise, but the Empire itself will prove them wrong. It's a rotten, corrupt system, beyond redemption. Sometimes it can be a force for good through an alliance with the good guys, if they have the same enemy, but afterwards it goes evil again.

We had an evil Empire under Palpatine and his successors for some forty years, and I'm being generous there in handing you the entire period up until peace with the NR. With Pellaeon as the head of a reformed Remnant, I ought to cut that down to thirty years, but it was still attacking the NR so I'll hand you that period just to make my point. From there, we have an Empire which has been seen to be an ally of, and then component of, the good guys for twenty years. We then have an approximately ninety-year stretch in which we know little about the Empire except that it pursued a peaceful policy and emerged as a massive power under a series of emperors deemed "benevolent" by Randy Stradley himself. We have another ten years after that in which a significant fraction of that Empire, under its true (and again, per Randy, benevolent) Emperor, exists and opposes the Sith. Hmm, forty years, generously, to one hundred twenty years, conservatively. That's three quarters of its time as a benign institution. Over eighty percent, if we go by the other figures. Just what about this suggests that the Empire (or its successor states, a distinction you seem to utterly fail to grasp) is an inherently, irredeemably evil institution? Just when is it going to lapse back in evil, the next millennium?

It's not Palpatine's Empire, and you're not in Kansas anymore. Get used to it. You're going to have to argue morality based on something more than "They have an emperor and use armor like the bad government's armor."

 

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Charlemagne19  26812 posts
Registered: Jul '00
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Date Posted: 2/8/08 7:01pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?

It's not Palpatine's Empire, and you're not in Kansas anymore. Get used to it. You're going to have to argue morality based on something more than "They have an emperor and use armor like the bad government's armor."

The problem is the Empire under Pellaeon still had people like Disra.

And the Fels had people like Veed.

 

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GenAntilles  502 posts
Registered: Jul '07
40303_Clone Trooper (ARC) Captain Fordo
Date Posted: 2/8/08 7:08pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Charlemagne19 posted:

It's not Palpatine's Empire, and you're not in Kansas anymore. Get used to it. You're going to have to argue morality based on something more than "They have an emperor and use armor like the bad government's armor."

The problem is the Empire under Pellaeon still had people like Disra.

And the Fels had people like Veed.



And the New Republic had people like Fey'la, Viqi Shesh, and Pwoe.

And the GA had people like Niathal, and Jacen Solo. In every batch your going to have a couple bad eggs.

 

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GrandAdmiralJello  59900 posts
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Date Posted: 2/8/08 7:37pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Nick: I like the Core better than you do, anyway. So I should get it.

QED.

C19: Err, no. Palpatine was legally made emperor. The Usurper was not.

 

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Charlemagne19  26812 posts
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6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 2/8/08 7:46pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
The Senate can't legally name a Emperor.

:-p

 

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GrandAdmiralJello  59900 posts
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Date Posted: 2/8/08 8:06pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
No.

But the Supreme Chancellor could. And then he told the Senate that they could.

 

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reagan64  572 posts
Registered: Feb '06
18589_Missile Boat
Date Posted: 2/8/08 10:07pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Rouge77 posted:
The Empire is and has always been, evil. It can't be good. It's Palpatine's creation. The Fels can think otherwise, but the Empire itself will prove them wrong. It's a rotten, corrupt system, beyond redemption. Sometimes it can be a force for good through an alliance with the good guys, if they have the same enemy, but afterwards it goes evil again.


Movements (and Governments) outgrow their founders all the time. Take MADD for instance, whose founder has expressed concernover the direction the group has taken. If that kind of departure can occur with a living founder, the results for a government/movements which has outlived its founder's life are logically greater.

If you replace "Apartheid" with "Human High Culture" and "Nelson Mandela" with "Gilad Pellaeon," you'll find that the Empire has gone on a similar path as South Africa. Few people are calling that country "a rotten, corrupt system, beyond redemption" now.

 

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Rouge77  7450 posts
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Date Posted: 2/8/08 10:14pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Except that Gilad Pellaeon is not a former political prisoner of the Empire, but a high-ranking officer of it who has the backing of the surviving Imperial elite. He's more like Krushchev, at best Gorbachev; wants to change few things he doesn't like but mostly just so that the system can go on surviving, not because he is a nice guy.

 

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Charlemagne19  26812 posts
Registered: Jul '00
6408_Jedi Outcast
Date Posted: 2/8/08 10:15pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Rouge77 posted:
Except that Gilad Pellaeon is not a former political prisoner of the Empire, but a high-ranking officer of it who has the backing of the surviving Imperial elite. He's more like Krushchev, at best Gorbachev; wants to change few things he doesn't like but mostly just so that the system can go on surviving, not because he is a nice guy.


Pellaeon is also a former slaver and waged a 20 year war against the Republic on the dubious pretext of protecting a government that the galaxy had grown to hate.

Pellaeon did many good things in his life but he also fought to the bitter end and obeyed orders until the point he was in charge.

 

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Master_Starwalker  17414 posts
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered: Sep '03
47761_Darth Millenial
Date Posted: 2/8/08 11:19pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good? - Date Edited: 2/8/08 11:19pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Master_Starwalker
The_Loyal_Imperial posted:
Here are my thoughts. I do believe that eventually they will restore the throne to the rightful Emperor. In the end, I expect they'll have the galaxy split between the benevolent Empire and the Alliance, fans of both sides will be happy, and there will be plenty of material for stories in the future.


I think you're probably right. I'd rather see the Fel Empire brought down by the Alliance and the Jedi Knights, but it doesn't seem all too likely for the very reasons you mentioned.

 

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