Author Topic: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Jedi Ben  9344 posts
Registered: Jul '99
23785_James Bond Jedi
Date Posted: 2/9/08 1:31am Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Quiet_Mandalorian posted:
Jedi Ben posted:
I love Palpatine's Empire for the fact that it is evil, yet has that seductive alluring side that an excellent adversary requires.
Fixed. wink


No. I said the Empire and I meant the Empire, not any particular variant.

 

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Quiet_Mandalorian  8380 posts
Registered: Apr '05
40335_Boba Fett
Date Posted: 2/9/08 8:11am Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Rouge77 posted:
Except that Gilad Pellaeon is not a former political prisoner of the Empire, but a high-ranking officer of it who has the backing of the surviving Imperial elite.
And so he's been able to achieve what he has.

Charlemagne19 posted:
Pellaeon is also a former slaver and waged a 20 year war against the Republic on the dubious pretext of protecting a government that the galaxy had grown to hate.
Yes, and? talk_hand

Jedi Ben posted:
No. I said the Empire and I meant the Empire, not any particular variant.
Hence my correction. wink

 

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reagan64  572 posts
Registered: Feb '06
18589_Missile Boat
Date Posted: 2/9/08 8:35am Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Charlemagne19 posted:
Rouge77 posted:
Except that Gilad Pellaeon is not a former political prisoner of the Empire, but a high-ranking officer of it who has the backing of the surviving Imperial elite. He's more like Krushchev, at best Gorbachev; wants to change few things he doesn't like but mostly just so that the system can go on surviving, not because he is a nice guy.


Pellaeon is also a former slaver and waged a 20 year war against the Republic on the dubious pretext of protecting a government that the galaxy had grown to hate.

Pellaeon did many good things in his life but he also fought to the bitter end and obeyed orders until the point he was in charge.



The same can be said of Frederik Willem de Klerk, who shared a Nobel Peace Prize with Mandela.

 

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Jedi Ben  9344 posts
Registered: Jul '99
23785_James Bond Jedi
Date Posted: 2/9/08 9:54am Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Quiet_Mandalorian posted:
Jedi Ben posted:
No. I said the Empire and I meant the Empire, not any particular variant.
Hence my correction. wink


And the vague point you're alluding to is?

 

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Quiet_Mandalorian  8380 posts
Registered: Apr '05
40335_Boba Fett
Date Posted: 2/9/08 10:18am Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Jedi Ben posted:
And the vague point you're alluding to is?
The evil of Palpatine's Empire was to a great degree dependant upon a Sith being Emperor. Not having that particular distinction, the Imperial Remnant under Pellaeon and the new Empire under the Fels are not really much different than the the various iterations of the Republic as far as malevolence goes.

Besides, it's a matter of authorial that the Fel Empire is benevolent. wink

 

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Jedi Ben  9344 posts
Registered: Jul '99
23785_James Bond Jedi
Date Posted: 2/9/08 11:20am Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Quiet_Mandalorian posted:
Jedi Ben posted:
And the vague point you're alluding to is?
The evil of Palpatine's Empire was to a great degree dependant upon a Sith being Emperor. Not having that particular distinction, the Imperial Remnant under Pellaeon and the new Empire under the Fels are not really much different than the the various iterations of the Republic as far as malevolence goes.

Besides, it's a matter of authorial that the Fel Empire is benevolent. wink


The Empire is still, and always going to be, a system that says individuals belong to the state to do with as it wishes. That's evil any which way you slice it. Now you could say everyone voluntarily works for the Empire, submitting their own will to the greater good so freely becoming cogs in the system. But have we seen anyone being allowed to leave or is it a one-way ticket? Just because it a nice veneer doesn't mean it is.

 

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Quiet_Mandalorian  8380 posts
Registered: Apr '05
40335_Boba Fett
Date Posted: 2/9/08 11:51am Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Jedi Ben posted:
The Empire is still, and always going to be, a system that says individuals belong to the state to do with as it wishes. That's evil any which way you slice it.
Not necessarily. wink

Jedi Ben posted:
Now you could say everyone voluntarily works for the Empire, submitting their own will to the greater good so freely becoming cogs in the system. But have we seen anyone being allowed to leave or is it a one-way ticket?
Shado Vao.

 

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Havac  14250 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 2/9/08 11:55am Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Actually, per their treaty with the New Republic, planets are free to leave or join the Empire as they wish, and there's no reason to think people are prevented from similarly emigrating. As for saying people belong to the state, what evidence do we have of that for Pellaeon's empire or Fel's? The motto of the Empire, in a phrase, seems to be "Strong leadership." Beyond that, we know little about how their government functions and how it relates to its citizens. The fact remains, however, that many people were willing to join it. You can't say, "Well, it has the same name as Palpatine's Empire, so it's the exact same system" and project all that onto an Empire hundreds of years later. Shall I project the positions of Britain in 1870 onto it now? Shall I project its governmental relations onto it now? I mean, it was the same system, right? Prime minister and everything.

 

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Robimus  3654 posts
Registered: Jul '07
13691_HK-47
Date Posted: 2/9/08 12:45pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Rouge77 posted:
Except that Gilad Pellaeon is not a former political prisoner of the Empire, but a high-ranking officer of it who has the backing of the surviving Imperial elite. He's more like Krushchev, at best Gorbachev; wants to change few things he doesn't like but mostly just so that the system can go on surviving, not because he is a nice guy.


Political affiliation doesn't make someone nice or not nice. Pellaeon was always portrayed as not even wanting to be in charge and only took command when he was forced to. He does want whats best for the Empire, and while that differs from what is best for others the others simply don't matter that much. Pellaeon looks to the Empire first, as he should.

 

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Jedi Ben  9344 posts
Registered: Jul '99
23785_James Bond Jedi
Date Posted: 2/9/08 1:12pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good? - Date Edited: 2/9/08 1:16pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Jedi Ben
Havac posted:
You can't say, "Well, it has the same name as Palpatine's Empire, so it's the exact same system" and project all that onto an Empire hundreds of years later. Shall I project the positions of Britain in 1870 onto it now? Shall I project its governmental relations onto it now? I mean, it was the same system, right? Prime minister and everything.


Maybe you've forgotten but the Empire really doesn't exist, it's fiction.

Also the little matter of Britain no longer having an Empire kind of wrecks the point, now if we had one, or a better one - then yes it'd work, but we'd be running the US and no insignificant rebellion would succeed a second time.

 

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Robimus  3654 posts
Registered: Jul '07
13691_HK-47
Date Posted: 2/9/08 1:22pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good? - Date Edited: 2/9/08 1:24pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Robimus
Jedi Ben posted:
[quote=Havac]You can't say, "Well, it has the same name as Palpatine's Empire, so it's the exact same system" and project all that onto an Empire hundreds of years later. Shall I project the positions of Britain in 1870 onto it now? Shall I project its governmental relations onto it now? I mean, it was the same system, right? Prime minister and everything.


Maybe you've forgotten but the Empire really doesn't exist, it's fiction.
quote]

Huh? I think this everytime someone brings up "Star Wars isn't real". Its perfectly fine to try to compare elements of Star Wars to the real world.....Or should we cease all disscussion of Star Wars because it "doesn't exist?"

 

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IamtheMaster111  78 posts
Registered: Feb '05
44424_Roan Fel
Date Posted: 2/9/08 1:32pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Wait! Star Wars isn't Real?!?!?!?!/1/1 shock

 

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wild_karrde  27755 posts
Registered: Oct '99
21785_Talon Karrde
Date Posted: 2/9/08 1:40pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Haven't they been "good" since Vision of the Future?

 

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Rouge77  7450 posts
Registered: May '05
6464_Anakin Solo
Date Posted: 2/9/08 1:47pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Signing a peace treaty won't change governments from evil to good overnight.

 

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Sinrebirth  18923 posts
Title: Sith Emperor of the SWC
Registered: Nov '04
47748_Dath Vectivus
Date Posted: 2/9/08 1:58pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Nope, but the weaning out most of the madmen of the rimward section by said peace treaty can rehabilitate that portion.

Lets see what the Remnant had;

Equal treatment of aliens
Equal treatment of sexes
Choice to stay with Remnant or leave for all member worlds
Supreme Commander was also the Head of State
Generally hated Palpatine and blamed him for everything
Agreed not to produce superweapons, and to assist destroying them

It's like the current Republic of Turkey, the last people to be freed from the Ottoman Empire being the Turks. The Remnant isn't too dissimilar. The Republic/Imperial Remnant has a different government to the Empire, but is the direct heir of it bar the Sultan/Emperor missing. And Turkey has a very strong and politically active military.

 

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