Jedi Council Forums - Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?

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Author	Topic: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 2/9/08 2:08pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good? - Date Edited: 2/9/08 2:16pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Jedi Ben
	Robimus posted: Jedi Ben posted: [quote=Havac]You can't say, "Well, it has the same name as Palpatine's Empire, so it's the exact same system" and project all that onto an Empire hundreds of years later. Shall I project the positions of Britain in 1870 onto it now? Shall I project its governmental relations onto it now? I mean, it was the same system, right? Prime minister and everything. Maybe you've forgotten but the Empire really doesn't exist, it's fiction. quote] Huh? I think this everytime someone brings up "Star Wars isn't real". Its perfectly fine to try to compare elements of Star Wars to the real world.....Or should we cease all disscussion of Star Wars because it "doesn't exist?" Comparison is fine but, what gets forgotten, is people do view SW differently from the real world because it is fiction. Therefore what people say about SW they are quite likely to not apply to the real world. It's modes of perception. For me I can be far more simplistic in my approach to SW than the real world, yet at the same time if you were to ask if I really think people, countries or organisations change much, I'd have to say no, whether it be SW or reality. Empires tend to be predatory by nature, thinking of the things as nice tends to put you on the menu. Here's another example: I don't like or care for the Empire, but that doesn't exclude my being intrigued and interested by it. I don't much like any of the variations of the Empire but they are fascinating and good story material. But the Empire is the adversary in SW, either to a lesser or greater extent depending on the story and you're not supposed to like the villains. -----signature----- Excellence: "You are the forum's Quick Ben." SW EU fans: John Ostrander needs your help! http://www.comix4sight.com
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Jedi_Hall Registered: Nov '07	Date Posted: 2/9/08 2:46pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	Rouge77 posted: The Empire is and has always been, evil. It can't be good. It's Palpatine's creation. The Fels can think otherwise, but the Empire itself will prove them wrong. It's a rotten, corrupt system, beyond redemption. Sometimes it can be a force for good through an alliance with the good guys, if they have the same enemy, but afterwards it goes evil again. Yet, the exact same thing is true of a democracy. Palpatine made the Empire out of the Republic. In you opinion, the Empire might have been evil, but it was far more safe and secure than the New Republic, or the Old one before it. Any government depends on its leaders for defining it as Good or Evil. An Empire is just a system of government, and a far more effective and efficient one than a Democracy. But, that is more than likely a discussion for a different thread.
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GrandAdmiralJello Title: Emperor • EUC • JCC Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 2/9/08 2:49pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	Jedi Ben: The original empire par excellence was something that ended up being far better for the people than their original monarchies or the republic that conquered them, you know. -----signature----- SPQR Vates Jυλιαδις Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque - Ennius Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento; hæ tibi erunt artes; pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos - Virgil
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 2/9/08 2:54pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	GrandAdmiralJello posted: Jedi Ben: The original empire par excellence was something that ended up being far better for the people than their original monarchies or the republic that conquered them, you know. You've asked for this Jello: What has the Empire ever done for us? -----signature----- Excellence: "You are the forum's Quick Ben." SW EU fans: John Ostrander needs your help! http://www.comix4sight.com
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GrandAdmiralJello Title: Emperor • EUC • JCC Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 2/9/08 3:08pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	Exactly! You get the idea. And while the Galactic Empire doesn't have such a long litany of benefits, you can still see that it did bring quite a bit of peace and tranquility from the chaotic uncertainty of the late Republic (even before the Palpatine-engineered wars, mind you). We also know of their multicultural educational approach, thanks to the Holiday Special... -----signature----- SPQR Vates Jυλιαδις Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque - Ennius Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento; hæ tibi erunt artes; pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos - Virgil
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 2/9/08 3:12pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	Of course, but that doesn't mean I like empires. Hell, we did plenty of good stuff for those who played nice with us, but we didn't blink at smashing heads in either. The good stuff also came with strict rules on who was boss with harsh consequences for anyone being a smartarse - where do you think whitewashing came from? Now, that's a long time ago but don't think that sentiment has gone away, it hasn't, if we could have gotten away with it we'd have kept the Empire, likely by any means necessary. Ever read Warren Ellis' Ministery of Space? JB -----signature----- Excellence: "You are the forum's Quick Ben." SW EU fans: John Ostrander needs your help! http://www.comix4sight.com
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GrandAdmiralJello Title: Emperor • EUC • JCC Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 2/9/08 3:15pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	Perhaps you should have kept it. But expense aside, the superpowers wouldn't have stood for it. Alas. I have not read it, no. -----signature----- SPQR Vates Jυλιαδις Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque - Ennius Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento; hæ tibi erunt artes; pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos - Virgil
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 2/9/08 3:15pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	To be, the Empire's biggest gift to the galaxy was the unification it brought to a fractious galaxy. The Empire was something that a large portion of the galaxy, larger than any other in history, BELIEVED IN. People didn't believe in the Republic nearly the same way that they believed in the Empire. Honestly, you have to wonder about any system that inspires so many to fight on senselessly after the vast majority of the galaxy has accepted your defeat.
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CooperTFN Title: TF.n EU Staff Emeritus Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 2/9/08 3:20pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	<d-bag>Um, I believe the word you're looking for, Charlemagne, is romanticizing. </d-bag> -----signature----- Mike Cooper's Star Wars Blog http://blogs.starwars.com/coopertfn "Your tongues can't repel flavor of that magnitude!" "NAKED TWI'LEK WITH LIGHTSABER = MONEY" - Ris_jSarek "I bid you all Dark Greetings!"
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 2/9/08 3:27pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	GrandAdmiralJello posted: Perhaps you should have kept it. But expense aside, the superpowers wouldn't have stood for it. Alas. I have not read it, no. You should, think you'd find it quite interesting. -----signature----- Excellence: "You are the forum's Quick Ben." SW EU fans: John Ostrander needs your help! http://www.comix4sight.com
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Havac Title: Lit Mod of War Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 2/9/08 3:52pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	Jedi Ben posted: Maybe you've forgotten but the Empire really doesn't exist, it's fiction. Why, yes, it is. However, the fact remains that we can't draw conclusions about it because of its name. It doesn't matter if it's fictional; how can you say it's oppressive if you haven't seen it oppress anyone? Jedi Ben posted: Also the little matter of Britain no longer having an Empire kind of wrecks the point, now if we had one, or a better one - then yes it'd work, but we'd be running the US and no insignificant rebellion would succeed a second time. You'll note that I never mentioned having an Empire. I stated that the form of your government is the same -- a king, a prime minister, a parliament. You cling to the same symbols. Yet to judge the current government by the actions and policies of one long in the past would be silly, just because they share the same trappings. In the same way, just because the Legacy Empire is an empire does not mean that it is inherently oppressive or evil, and you haven't yet shown evidence that that's the case. In fact, we've been told by the editor that they're benevolent. -----signature----- "Is there a captain's hat involved in this?" "I . . . don't know what department I want. I need . . . pants."
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BobaMatt Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 2/9/08 9:31pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good? - Date Edited: 2/9/08 9:37pm (1 edits total) Edited By: BobaMatt
	Rouge77 posted: The Empire is and has always been, evil. It can't be good. It's Palpatine's creation. I'm late on this thread, but...for the last time, Palpatine did not invent monarchy. Edit: Then again, Havac just discussed that above... -----signature----- DUNE - Chronicles of the Imperium RP http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_wars_role_playing/b10755/29433346/p1/?11 As Father and Son (An AU RP) http://boards.theforce.net/role_playing_forum/b10328/28357048/p1/?10 Emperor Fel's badassery knows no bounds.
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Carnage04 Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 2/9/08 9:34pm Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	Charlemagne19 posted: To be, the Empire's biggest gift to the galaxy was the unification it brought to a fractious galaxy. The Empire was something that a large portion of the galaxy, larger than any other in history, BELIEVED IN. People didn't believe in the Republic nearly the same way that they believed in the Empire. Honestly, you have to wonder about any system that inspires so many to fight on senselessly after the vast majority of the galaxy has accepted your defeat. I think you are confusing the people shown that believe in the Empire....who for the most part were Military or Administrative types....to those that were just day to day citizens. Those Military/Administrative types ARE going to believe in the Empire because the government is the source of their livelihood. To further the illusion is the fact that the Empire had a very large Military. -----signature----- Carnage I Finally decided to use a signature after 3500 posts! 3500 posts * 7 Characters = 24500 keystrokes wasted
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 2/10/08 5:01am Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good? - Date Edited: 2/10/08 5:34am (1 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	BobaMatt posted: Rouge77 posted: The Empire is and has always been, evil. It can't be good. It's Palpatine's creation. I'm late on this thread, but...for the last time, Palpatine did not invent monarchy. For the last time, it's Palpatine's Empire. His creation. It's his system of administration, it's the military he created and the position of the Emperor is his creation. The Fel Empire isn't some other Empire, who hasn't got anything in common with Palpatine's Empire except that it too is an empire. No, the Empire claims to be Palpatine's Empire. The Fels who rule it claim that they rule Palpatine's Empire. It's still Palpatine's poisonous creation. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker, the new Jar-Jar!
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 2/10/08 5:32am Subject: RE: Romancing the Empire--- Will the Empire remain Evil or Turn Good?
	Why, yes, it is. However, the fact remains that we can't draw conclusions about it because of its name. It doesn't matter if it's fictional; how can you say it's oppressive if you haven't seen it oppress anyone? * Oh, come on: What's the Death Star if not a clear message of: Behave or you're screwed and your planet with you? Or are you going to say it's to clear asteroids? You'll note that I never mentioned having an Empire. I stated that the form of your government is the same -- a king, a prime minister, a parliament. You cling to the same symbols. * Except if you think Britain was democratic in the Victorian you've another thing coming Yet to judge the current government by the actions and policies of one long in the past would be silly, just because they share the same trappings. * People do think that way actually, not fair but quite realistic. People are still holding a grudge over the Potato Famine. In the same way, just because the Legacy Empire is an empire does not mean that it is inherently oppressive or evil, and you haven't yet shown evidence that that's the case. In fact, we've been told by the editor that they're benevolent. * So because you're told the information you believe it? You really don't see why people are going to be more than a tad suspicious of the Empire being cute and cuddly? -----signature----- Excellence: "You are the forum's Quick Ben." SW EU fans: John Ostrander needs your help! http://www.comix4sight.com
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