Sinrebirth posted:The Empire wasn't necessarily about the suppression of everyone and everything. It was, fundamentally, about maintaining Order. In places it fell heavier than others, simply because it needed to. Affording the same rights to rebels on Mon Calamari and then good citizens on Corulag doesn't work.
Sinrebirth posted:You'll note that BDZ', genocides and slavery only took place against those that opposed it.
Sinrebirth posted:I really don't see, bar the excesses, how the Empire was evil, evil, evil. It resisted the NR for almost as long as it ruled unopposed - nearly two decades of Empire before the organised Rebellion came together, and just as long of the NR fighting it. Something inherently 'evil' doesn't get supported for half of it's lifetime.
Sinrebirth posted:Sure, there's a degree of the populace simply turning around and running to the strongest power nearby, and a degree of the populace not caring, but there is also an overwhelming degree of the populace simply preferring the Empire even as late as 17 BBY - a quarter of the Galaxy, per the Cracken's Threat Dossier, remained sided with it, and, militarily, the Empire was decimated.
Sinrebirth posted:The ease in which the GA has slipped into a police state, and the fact the Remnant, when it gave it's citizens the choice to leave and thus gave it's populace the choice to dissolve the New Order in 19 BBY, didn't vanish overnight - and in-fact subsequently grew in size over the next century - suggests that there is a wellspring of support for empire and totalitarianism.
Sinrebirth posted:Something which couldn't have happened if the Empire was inherently a nasty piece of work.
Rouge77 posted:It was. The Empire was a creation of the Sith. And canonically, Sith = Evil.
Rouge77 posted:Of course it does. It's the basis of every decent society. And we have to remember that as much as the average supporter of the Empire thought that the Empire was about Order, it was in reality foremost about the rule of the Sith over the galaxy. Creating an authoritarian theocracy. (And every government, except some utopian anarchist ones, is basically about order. There's just the "small" difference of how the different governments try to sustain an orderly society.)
Rouge77 posted:That's usually what happens... Governments rarely commit genocides and enslave populations that support them. But that doesn't justify the crimes that the Empire did. It's like saying that the Mob kills only those that oppose it.
Rouge77 posted:You mistake support for acquiescence and fear. Was Nazi Germany not evil because it was "supported" for 12 years. Soviet Union? Imperialistic or Feodal states? Etc. And as the new material shows - and the Live TV series will probably show even more of this - there was organized resistance to the Empire probably from day one of it's existence and that organized resistance survived throughout the Dark Times.
Rouge77 posted:Local ruling elites put in power or dependent of the Empire, fearful of losing their position and perhaps their lives if their worlds would come under the rule of NR.
Rouge77 posted:The Nazis are always with us?
BobaMatt posted:I don't understand this at all. I mean, you keep drilling away at this point, but I don't understand why it's supposed to make sense. Perhaps if you explained your stance? Empire is not a Sith form of government any more than it is a British or a Spanish form of government. It's merely a form of government.
Rouge77 posted:Because it's the same government, it's the same Empire!
Rouge77 posted:It claims to be the same Empire! That's why!
Rouge77 posted:The Empire before Endor, reborn Palpatine's Dark Empire, Imperial Remnant and Fel Empire claim to be the same Empire.
Rouge77 posted:The government structure, whether in 40 ABY or 137 ABY, is based on that created by a Sith.
Rouge77 posted:The symbols of the government are the same also.
Rouge77 posted:So it's not about the form of government, it's about the continuity of the government, continuity of the idea of this particular Empire.
Rouge77 posted:(And Empire is a Sith form of government in Star Wars. The Old Sith Empire, Revan's Sith Empire, the New Sith Empire of Darth Ruin, the different versions of Palpatine's Empire and now the part of the Empire ruled by Darth Krayt.)
BobaMatt posted:Which, again, doesn't preclude the possibility of a non-evil Empire.
