Rouge77 posted:BobaMatt posted:Here's a perfect example. The Republic oppressed, disenfranchized, or simply ignore hundreds if not thousands of worlds. The Sith created the opportunity for them to stand up for themselves. Now, these poor people didn't realize they were being duped. Are they inherently evil for joining the CIS? Of course they aren't.
BobaMatt posted:Here's a perfect example. The Republic oppressed, disenfranchized, or simply ignore hundreds if not thousands of worlds. The Sith created the opportunity for them to stand up for themselves. Now, these poor people didn't realize they were being duped. Are they inherently evil for joining the CIS?
Rouge77 posted:BobaMatt posted:You're forgetting the part where Hitler was considered Germany's savior by a lot the common folk. In the 1932 elections, the Nazis got little over 37 percent of the votes. Yes, there was a lot of the common folk too among those who vote the Nazis, but the money to the election campaign came from the captains of the industry. The majority of military and the police and civil servants didn't oppose when the Nazis took over, but instead came to support the Nazis. These were the people the Nazis needed to support them, not the common folk.
BobaMatt posted:You're forgetting the part where Hitler was considered Germany's savior by a lot the common folk.
BobaMatt posted:So if a member state of the CIS is not evil for joining a Sith organization, why is the Empire evil for once being run by a Sith over 100 years in the past?
BobaMatt posted:I was referring to how, once Hitler took power, he did some good and the people loved him.
Rouge77 posted:BobaMatt posted:So if a member state of the CIS is not evil for joining a Sith organization, why is the Empire evil for once being run by a Sith over 100 years in the past? What if I put it this way: If CIS would be still around, it would also be evil. But member planets? Not necessarily.
Rouge77 posted:BobaMatt posted:I was referring to how, once Hitler took power, he did some good and the people loved him. The overall standard of living didn't rise. Huge building projects and the expansion of military helped industry, created jobs and reduced unemployment. But that's pretty much it. The cost to society would have been too high even if he wouldn't have started the II World War and committed genocides.
BobaMatt posted:What if the people found out they were being duped and replaced Dooku? What then?
BobaMatt posted:Again, would a hypothetical successor to Hitler who addressed those problems and decided against genocide and a military state still be inherently evil?
BobaMatt posted:Why is a single party state inherently evil? To go back to your argument regarding the difference between Star Wars and reality, it's not uncommon for kings to be virtuous.
BobaMatt posted:Again, I was appealing to the part of you that was arguing Star Wars' fictive tropes as opposed to real world history.
Heir to the Empire posted:"The high court of Alderaan had a royal hierarchy, too," Leia reminded him tartly, still looking back along the empty corridor. No, she decided, she and Threepio had better stay here and wait for Khabarakh. "Most other people in the galaxy didn't consider us to be socially primitive."
Rouge77 posted:BobaMatt posted:So you believe that the form of government known as monarchy is inherently evil, like the Sith are inherently evil? If the monarch has power, yes. In the case of modern western monarchies, where the monarch has no power and the parasite lives his or her life as a pampered tourist attraction, the monarchy isn't evil. But give power to the monarch, thus letting him out of his cage, and he becomes dangerous.
BobaMatt posted:So you believe that the form of government known as monarchy is inherently evil, like the Sith are inherently evil?
Rouge77 posted:Ulicus posted:I can't speak for the other Western Monarchies, or even the other Commonwealth Countries, but insofar as the United Kingdom is concerned, Her Majesty the Queen is no parasite. Yes, she has worked so hard for the hundreds of millions, if not billions, of pounds she owns...
Ulicus posted:I can't speak for the other Western Monarchies, or even the other Commonwealth Countries, but insofar as the United Kingdom is concerned, Her Majesty the Queen is no parasite.
LtNOWIS posted:Heir to the Empire posted:"The high court of Alderaan had a royal hierarchy, too," Leia reminded him tartly, still looking back along the empty corridor. No, she decided, she and Threepio had better stay here and wait for Khabarakh. "Most other people in the galaxy didn't consider us to be socially primitive." Anyways, I reject the idea that a state that committed horrible crimes in the past is doomed to be evil forever.
GrandAdmiralJello posted: And even then, we should be careful what we mean by evil. All the evils of the First Empire aside, more people died under the NR than under the rule of Palpatine. So even moral judgments can't tell the entire story.