| Author |
Topic:
KOTOR III... reconfirmed? As an MMO?
|
Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
|
Date Posted:
4/10 7:57am
Subject:
RE: KOTOR III...confirmed?
|
Zorrixor posted:
I'd actually go as far as to say I think KOTOR2 would have been better if it wasn't such a direct sequel to KOTOR1. Obsidian had to contend with such an unrealistic deadline and were clearly forced to rework things multiple times after they finally got hold of the finished version of the first game and realised things in KOTOR2 needed changing. 
Had they been allowed from the start to just "make a new game based on a the KOTOR engine" I think we would have had a much stronger story that would potentially have been much more polished, as instead of spending time working in KOTOR1 at the last minute, they would have spent more time getting the game finished. 
The way things were we just got left with so many unanswered questions. Case in point, was Traya Arren Kae or not? Was she Revan's first Master? Did she train him to any considerable extent? Was she the Sith who corrupted him? Who came first, the Traya or the egg? If it had been entirely stand alone, we could have avoided all these questions and instead had a Traya who was built up independently, focusing more on why Traya was the villain, not why her apprentice Revan from the first game was so great.
Yeah, I actually think I'll agree with you on that. There is so much "Independant Awesome" in KotOR 2... but it gets completely overshadowed by Revan.
Now, in some ways, that is awesome in and of itself. I like Revan. In other ways, I think they did their own story a disservice by concentrating so heavily on the previous protagonist.
Indeed, I recall an interview where Avellone (or perhaps another Obsidian employee) said: "We thought it was important to gives hints to the Exile what your character was up to in the Unknown Regions."
How strange is that? Not even referring not to the Exile as "us" but Revan.
And, even stranger, since KotOR II came off the heels of KotOR I... that's how I actually felt. Even though I had more control over the Exile, I identified more with Revan. He was my character, even in KotOR II. Not a good feeling to be having.
Zorrixor posted:
Now, admittedly, part of the great appeal of KOTOR2 was the mystery. Ironic as it may be, the unanswered questions, the plot holes, the lack of an ending, all these things which weren't so much intentional as much as they were due to the game simply not being finished, they all added to the mystique of KOTOR2. Traya is such an intriguing character because we know so little about her and her backstory is so messy.
You speak the truth... but I still hope the questions are answered.
And I hope it is Obsidian who answer them. Giving a direct TSL sequel to another company would be a serious mistake, in my opinion. Even if Obsidian give the other guys their notes, who is to say they'll follow them properly or exactly? I don't want the transition between K2/3 to be as jarring as that between K1/2.
Zorrixor posted:
However, that said, every time I watch the trailers for the Sith Lords Restoration Project I feel as if the game could have been so much more. Some of the best clips they've put up have nothing to do with KOTOR1 and are just interaction between Traya, Nihilus and Sion, truly making them seem like the bad guys, arguably making Traya feel creepier and even more evil than Malak ever did. I just love the trailer which has Atton and Briana challenging Kreia. "Your dark schemes end here Kreia!" "You have corrupted the people I care about! The Exile!" and so on. There was just so much character to them even without their ties to KOTOR1.
Yes, I absolutely agree.
-----signature-----
Recipient of Golden Ewok™
Trip Cares
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Sikon
Registered:
Mar '06
|
Date Posted:
4/10 8:07am
Subject:
RE: KOTOR III...confirmed?
- Date Edited:
4/10 8:10am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Sikon
|
Zorrixor posted:
Was she Revan's first Master?
This one is answered. Yes, she was. And in the end, he came back to her.
posted:
Now, admittedly, part of the great appeal of KOTOR2 was the mystery. Ironic as it may be, the unanswered questions, the plot holes, the lack of an ending, all these things which weren't so much intentional as much as they were due to the game simply not being finished, they all added to the mystique of KOTOR2. Traya is such an intriguing character because we know so little about her and her backstory is so messy.
Precisely! Although vagueness is a rather cheap way of creating an suspense, and may hurt in the long run (see Lost), so I hope they'll abandon the practice in K3.
posted:
arguably making Traya feel creepier and even more evil than Malak ever did. I just love the trailer which has Atton and Briana challenging Kreia.
Kreia was so great because she was somewhat of a rarity in Star Wars: a sneaky evil character. And the fact that she's the most thoroughly-written character in the game, possibly in both games, certainly helps. The stereotypical Jedi and Sith are Lawful Stupid and Chaotic Stupid, respectively - and it constantly hurts both factions throughout SW history. And these two character types were basically the only way to roleplay your character in K1: either a goody-two-shoes saint, or a psychotic baby-eater. It's good that TSL brought some variety, not just with Kreia but with additional roleplay options.
-----signature-----
http://lucidfox.org http://qdb.lucidfox.org - TFN/Wookieepedia quotes Revan is the heart of the Force? What kind of lame power is heart anyway?
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
GoA
Registered:
Dec '07
|
Date Posted:
4/10 12:10pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR III...confirmed?
- Date Edited:
4/10 2:15pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Havac
|
Ulicus posted:
As I said, the "Revan Period" was done. It was over. I didn't want KotOR 2 to have anything to do with him or his friends... but it did, and - not only that - it kept talking about him, kept giving us hints as to where he was then sent the Exile after him. Not only that, but it left us with a whole bunch of irritating questions and an annoying "True Sith" problem.
KotOR II ended on a clear "to be continued!" note. It wasn't: "and they all lived happily ever after", ala KotOR I. It was: "Now the Exile is off to find Revan."
Not to jump into an ongoing debate, but this above is exactly why I think KOTOR III has to be a direct continuation to TSL. The story kind of put them in a corner, by having it as such a cliffhanger ending. So, now, if they make KOTOR III and the story has very little to do with the events, and ending of TSL, it'll leave a lot of people with a "wtpants? where's the closure?" feeling.
I wish they simply hadn't have done that from the start. As has been stated many times, KOTOR I didn't need a sequel. The story was done, it made sense to be done, and that chapter in the SW universe was written. Revan's story was told. TSL shouldn't have even included Revan. Like Final Fantasy, it should have simply just been a new story in the KOTOR time-line. And, really, if there was no guarantee for a third installment (as opposed to, say, Mass Effect, which has been stated to be a trilogy right from the beginning), then TSL should not have had a cliff hanger ending, which pretty much shoehorned the third game into being a conclusion to TSL, rather than a stand-alone game in its own right.
As it stands, I'll be one of the people who will be disappointed if KOTOR III isn't a direct continuation of TSL. Not because I'm one of those fanboys that expects to play the same character over and over again, or not even because I necessarily love the story or where it's going. But because I simply want closure, closure that I didn't get at the end of TSL.
You know what would be ideal, but which I don't think is even a possibility? They (Obsidian, Lucasarts) close this chapter, with the Exile and Revan in the Unknown Regions, in an expanse pack, rather than a full-fledged game. That way, the story doesn't have to be long, it can simply be the conclusion of Exile chasing down Revan into the UR, and then they can spend their time creating a new game that doesn't have these loose ends limiting what they can write about.
-----signature-----
Everything I tell you is a lie
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
RushinSundaws
Registered:
Feb '05
|
Date Posted:
4/10 6:48pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR III...confirmed?
|
|
I have to ask, has this actually been confirmed or is it just still the EA press release and later retraction with "Oops, we didn't mean to have that there?"
-----signature-----
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is The Force.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
DoubleSith
Registered:
Feb '02
|
Date Posted:
6/6 12:08pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR III...NOT CONFIRMED
- Date Edited:
6/6 12:10pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DoubleSith
|
LucasArts (just like they did back in 2004) have decided to layoff a significant amount of their workforce. Seems like a few disgruntled ex-employees are spilling the beans on their upcoming projects:
Kotaku posted:
The source tells us that the sackings are spread across the company, and involve (as we were told earlier) everyone from testers to head producers. They also re-iterate earlier reports that the number of staff affected is around 100, and that the cull actually began on Wednesday, and continued through into Thursday.
Most interesting, however, is the information they provide on how the layoffs leave the company severely short-staffed as they approach a packed development schedule, one which it appears may be increasingly outsourced. Some of the titles they report Lucasarts apparently have in this stacked pipeline, whether as publisher or developer, include:
- KOTOR 3 (They say it's an MMO: most likely a joint project between Lucasarts and BioWare)
- Battlefront 3 (which we've already heard about)
- "The Official Indiana Jones" game (probably this one)
- "another LEGO game based on the Indy universe"
- "a lightsaber game for the wii (sorry, no lightsaber peripherals)"
Two internally-developed games apparently far enough along to be unaffected by the sackings are The Force Unleashed (which they say has already "passed approval with SCEA and is ready to ship") and Fracture, which they say is described by team members as "an absolute piece of garbage".
http://kotaku.com/5013769/rumor-ex+lucasarts-staffer-talks-kotor-3-more-indy-wii-lightsaber-game
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Zorrixor
Registered:
Sep '04
|
Date Posted:
6/6 1:32pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR III...NOT CONFIRMED
- Date Edited:
6/6 1:34pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Zorrixor
|
For once I'm hoping this is just a rumour. I don't want a MMO KOTOR3.
If it does end up being a MMO then I just pray they do a better job of continuing the story than WoW. I utterly despise the fact I followed the story of Arthas and Illidan in a well scripted game like WC3 and have been forced to watch their stories be wrecked through amateur storytelling in WoW.
Its not that the story in WoW is bad its just they don't tell it. You might get a few lines on a quest log but thats about it. Apart from that its all "piece it together yourself" and just assuming that some random band of adventurers went and beat up Illidan. Whoopdeedoo.
I can see it now. A line in a future Essential Chronology about how the Dark Lord Darth Revan returned to the dark side and was finally defeated by a party of twenty five random adventurers including a Teras Kasi Master, a Rifleman and a Politician.
Please... just no... pleeeeeease... I'd sooner not have KOTOR3 than that. 
If it must be a MMO then they better put storytelling above milking it for money. 
Plus for continuities sake I see a MMO being suicide except for in a completely new era.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Havac
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered:
Sep '05
|
Date Posted:
6/6 2:28pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR III...NOT CONFIRMED
|
Zorrixor posted:
I can see it now. A line in a future Essential Chronology about how the Dark Lord Darth Revan returned to the dark side and was finally defeated by a party of twenty five random adventurers including a Teras Kasi Master, a Rifleman and a Politician.
Don't forget One Of Five Thousand Other Sith Lords.
-----signature-----
"Have you not yet learned, Executor, that everything I tell you is the truth?" - Vergere
Recipient of Thrawn McEwok's Sexually Ambiguous Tusken Raider™ and a Special Golden Ewok™
"Reality doesn't care if you believe it." - Boba Fett
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
GoA
Registered:
Dec '07
|
Date Posted:
6/6 2:40pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR III...NOT CONFIRMED
|
Zorrixor posted:
For once I'm hoping this is just a rumour. I don't want a MMO KOTOR3.
QFT.
Fact is, what made KOTOR I and II so special, was the story telling. IMO, you just can't get the tight, precise story telling in a MMO game that you can in a single player game.
If LA decides to make KOTOR III a MMO, it'll be yet another example of simply capitalizing on something that's popular, and trying to then sell it to a larger market, caring little for the quality of the end product.
-----signature-----
Everything I tell you is a lie
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Magnuskn
Registered:
Jul '02
|
Date Posted:
6/6 3:06pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR III...NOT CONFIRMED
- Date Edited:
6/6 3:08pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Magnuskn
|
Well, I also don´t want a KOTOR MMO... for other reasons than the others.
I just finally got rid of WoW, and a well made Star Wars MMO would totally, absolutely destruct my social life. Or at least everything outside of my circle of friends and going to work... and that would be *very* bad. I still need to finish university, after all.
And if it´s Bioware... well, I´d expect the game to be excellent. 
Magnus
-----signature-----
OH! You heroic Gangrel-man! All the ancient tombs you scan! Learn the way it all began!
Hot like Croft and cool like Jones, Beckett rules and Beckett owns.
Others like you there are none, We all love you, Beckett-san!
From: "Gehenna - The Musical!"
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Zorrixor
Registered:
Sep '04
|
Date Posted:
6/6 3:09pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR III...NOT CONFIRMED
- Date Edited:
6/6 3:11pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Zorrixor
|
Thinking about it... wasn't there a rumour a few months back about a "KOTOR" MMORPG that was going to be set in the Clone Wars? Can't say more Clone Wars stuff would surprise me actually.
Actually, it would make sense of the simultanteous "there is a third KOTOR game" and "there will be no KOTOR3" leaks too, if it was "KOTOR3" in a sense but not the KOTOR3. Kind of like how JA wasn't a JO2 but was sort of a "JO2".
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Ceth_Jonuck
Registered:
Nov '06
|
Date Posted:
6/6 3:22pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR III...NOT CONFIRMED
|
Zorrixor posted:
Actually, it would make sense of the simultanteous "there is a third KOTOR game" and "there will be no KOTOR3" leaks too, if it was "KOTOR3" in a sense but not the KOTOR3. Kind of like how JA wasn't a JO2 but was sort of a "JO2".
My head just exploded, lol. 
-----signature-----
His Force is with me....always. <><
When life knocks you to your knees....pray there
The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return
We take what is given...
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
|
Date Posted:
6/6 3:25pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR III...NOT CONFIRMED
|
If KotOR 3 is an MMO, I hope its set in the NSW and has nothing to do with Revan and the Exile.
The "Old Republic" is a long period of time, after all.
-----signature-----
Recipient of Golden Ewok™
Trip Cares
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Valhoun
Registered:
Jun '08
|
Date Posted:
6/6 4:22pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR III...NOT CONFIRMED
|
KoToR 3 is about as safe a bet as anything in the game industry. Just like StarCraft II, it's not a matter of "if" but "when" it will be released. Companies have become more secretive in recent years about exactly what titles they are working on. They just don't want to be burned by over-hype and disappointment when a title is inevitably delayed. KoToR is a cash cow, that franchise will be around for a very long time.
I don't see any direct sequel to KoToR being an MMO. There may certainly be an MMO based in the same timeframe but, KoToR 3 will almost certainly be along the lines of the previous games. While Obsidian isn't quite at the level of Bioware, they were hand-picked by Bioware on a number of occasions to continue franchises that began as Bioware products. Both companies share similar strengths and gaming philosophies. While Obsidian expanded with creating another KoToR in mind, they still aren't a large enough company to produce such an expansive MMO and they have no experience in online gaming whatsoever.
Black Isle Studios focused entirely on immersive single-player RPGs. So does Bioware and so does Obsidian. Those three studios are closely inter-related and produced amazing quality games. However, they have virtually no expertise in the MMO business and, in the case of Obsidian, simply don't have the manpower to do one.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Zorrixor
Registered:
Sep '04
|
Date Posted:
6/6 5:03pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR III...NOT CONFIRMED
- Date Edited:
6/6 5:04pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Zorrixor
|
Well BioWare are working on an unnamed MMORPG, thats been confirmed for a while, though its always been unknown whether it is SW related or not. In some ways, I suppose you could ask why BioWare would be keeping something secret if there wasn't an external company involved, but who knows?
I agree with you though that BW have no actual MMORPG experience which is why I fear for it if, whether it is SW related or not. I've always seen BW and Obsidian's strengths as being in their storytelling more than anything. If that transfers over to their MMORPG efforts, maybe it would be cool, but I do worry they may approach it the wrong way. I do somewhat worry though whether BW will use the KOTOR name to sell their first attempt at a MMORPG to ensure it at least gets some sales. D&D is their forte, but I guess it may be possible they realise what with WoW and the upcoming Warhammer Online game the fantasy MMORPG market is already saturated.
In that sense, Clone Wars would make me happy as another lame CW game is just another lame CW game that can't hurt anything. I agree with Uli though, if they do a MMORPG I'd ideally like to see the NSW since its such a blank canvass they'd really have to try hard to screw it up, plus it would finally paint the picture of something we've never really seen touched.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
|
Date Posted:
6/6 5:08pm
Subject:
RE: KOTOR III...NOT CONFIRMED
|
Ulicus posted:
If KotOR 3 is an MMO, I hope its set in the NSW and has nothing to do with Revan and the Exile.
The "Old Republic" is a long period of time, after all.
The KOTOR brand has never stood for the entirety of the Old Republic time period, but for a specific window in that timeframe.
-----signature-----
"Play is going to be for the 21st century what steam was to the 19th century."
Julian Dibbell
"You gotta love an elite killing force that you can fool by putting on a hat."
Gryph
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
