Jedi Council Forums - Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]

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Author	Topic: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]
Zorrixor Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 6/7 3:10pm Subject: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]
	Well, I don't think there should just be an out of the blue redemption quest chain that suddenly makes you go from being a raging dark sider to a redeemed little do gooder. There should be various options like in KOTOR or Mass Effect whereby you are presented with either killing someone and stealing their stuff, just killing them, letting them live but robbing them, letting them live, or feeling bad for them and giving them some money. If you go for the real goody-goody option of giving them some money the logical conclusion is your character will be struggling to accept his place in the Sith throughout the game, leading to the redemption quest chain not feeling so totally random. Most Sith characters though probably wouldn't do that... even if they were pro-imperialism, there will hopefully be a difference between just the pro-imperialist-but-nice-guy options and the full blown anti-imperialist-and-dissatisfied-with-the-Sith options.
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 6/7 3:39pm Subject: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]
	MercenaryAce posted: Zorrixor posted: Hopefully it'll be done in such a way that if you are a real goody-goody the natural conclusion is that you go on a redemption quest and defect to the Republic. So would the natural conclusion of a good German or Japanese soldier be to join the allies? I would agree if we were talking the Galactic Empire versus the Rebel Alliance as that is a civil war, but the Sith versus the Republic, well, in this case at least, is a battle between two separate and sovereign entities. It is hard for me to imagine a situation where you decide the right thin to do is to join the people killing you friends, family and countrymen, if for no other reason than those are your loved ones, or even just people you met and at least know as people, verses all but faceless and nameless strangers. I believe, in real life, it's called Partisan warfare. In actuality, the Allied Command including Winston Churchill and Franklin Rooseveldt were actively attempting to avoid getting into situations involving Frenchmen fighting against Frenchmen. However, Charles Dugaulle was frankly irritated by the attempt to keep him OUT of retaking his country from what he viewed to be traitors. Bluntly, in real life, the people MOST gung ho about killing people on the "wrong" side is usually partisans.
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MercenaryAce Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 6/7 4:02pm Subject: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]
	Zorrixor posted: If you go for the real goody-goody option of giving them some money the logical conclusion is your character will be struggling to accept his place in the Sith throughout the game, leading to the redemption quest chain not feeling so totally random. Agreed. Though I would like to add a caveat: a Sith who defects for all the wrong reasons. Sith are not the most loyal bunch, and I could easily see a Sith Lord who decides he would prefer less cut-throat competition on the road to powers. Charlemane19 posted: I believe, in real life, it's called Partisan warfare. In actuality, the Allied Command including Winston Churchill and Franklin Rooseveldt were actively attempting to avoid getting into situations involving Frenchmen fighting against Frenchmen. However, Charles Dugaulle was frankly irritated by the attempt to keep him OUT of retaking his country from what he viewed to be traitors. Bluntly, in real life, the people MOST gung ho about killing people on the "wrong" side is usually partisans. Yes...but they often do it on their own terms. Joining a Sith reform movement or Sith rebel group that is allied to the Republic is kind of different than outright joining the Republic, don't you think? The Free French, and the Vichy French for that matter, fought under their own flags and their commanders in their own uniforms. Such symbolism can mean a lot. (PS-I do know about the various non-Germans who joined the SS, but for the sake of simplicity I will ignore them) I know this seems different from what I was saying, but let's go back to Germany. The men behind Operation Valkyrie planned to kill Hitler for various reasons, but they weren't flying over to the allies, or even cooperating with the allies in a general sense. They sought to solve these problems themselves. -----signature----- "I am no man...I am a space station!" Another star wars ships, droids and troops site: http://armiesofstarwars.com/ It does have info found nowhere Move all sig, for great justice
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Zorrixor Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 6/7 4:33pm Subject: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]
	That is all very true. This is all why I really, really, really hope that if they do pull off the "defection" stuff that the quest chain is not just "Repeat really boring grind quest a million times to reverse your Sith Empire/Galactic Republic faction reputations" which is all WoW did with the Shattrath City factions in WoW to discourage doing it (who hated each other, but all you needed to do was go and repeat this totally pointless quest to collect basilisk skins or something like a thousand times... and voila you changed faction and suddenly your enemies loved you and your allies hated you). I understand in WoW how they didn't want to make swapping faction easy, and I can't necessarily say I think it should be (though with TOR having unique classes, I think it might be nice), but nor do I think it should be mindnumbingly boring for a casual gamer (like in the WoW example). I do think it should involve a rather long winded quest line to make sense, however, largely because it would be a very significant change in your character, so it makes sense for it to be an exciting thing to do. My main worry is it isn't exactly something they'll expect 99% of the players to do, so I'm dubious how much effort they'll invest in unique quest lines for each class for defecting.
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 6/7 4:41pm Subject: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]
	Zorrixor posted: My main worry is it isn't exactly something they'll expect 99% of the players to do, so I'm dubious how much effort they'll invest in unique quest lines for each class for defecting. They've already mentioned that they will have Light Side Sith who hate the Galactic Republic and Jedi for annihilating the Old Sith en masse. So, I think we'll have people who are attempting to overthrow the Sith Emperor and the Dark Side Council but fighting against them. We might also get Knights of the Ebon Blade and similar things. However, I think it'd be silly for the writers to miss how many people will want to be Sith/Dark Jedi and fight Dark Jedi because they're cooler than Jedi.
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Master_Keralys Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 6/7 4:47pm Subject: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]
	Charles, please PPOR on that. They've said it would be murky, but I've not seen any such out-and-out statement of light side Sith. I've seen stuff saying that it's not going to be cut and dried, and that there will be options no matter your faction, but a statement of the sort you're saying I've not seen. -----signature----- God made man. Man rejected God. God became the man Jesus Christ, died and rose again to life, saving man from himself. The craziest story ever told. The truest.
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Zorrixor Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 6/7 4:52pm Subject: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]
	My current expectation is that it'll be fairly similar to KOTOR with you being able to just rack up Light Side Points or Dark Side Points. Whether that corresponds to the actual Force Powers you have available I think is perhaps more uncertain. I'll be fairly surprised if both Jedi and Sith get access to the full set of Force Powers, so I'm expecting you'll basically play a Sith Sorcerer throwing Force Lightning at people, even if you have maxed out your Light Side Points. Which might mean it turns out like the actual pen and paper RPG: playing the game the "wrong way" (i.e. trying to be a light Sith or a dark Jedi) may have penalties of your Force Powers costing more Force Points to cast. Though, on the other hand, they may not wish to discourage you playing the game in more than one way.
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 6/7 5:05pm Subject: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?] - Date Edited: 6/7 5:06pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	Master_Keralys posted: They've said it would be murky, but I've not seen any such out-and-out statement of light side Sith. I've seen stuff saying that it's not going to be cut and dried, and that there will be options no matter your faction, but a statement of the sort you're saying I've not seen. TOR FAQ: Yes, during character selection you will align with the Republic or the Sith Empire. In addition, throughout the game you will also be faced with many decisions which can change your path down the Light or Dark side of the Force. But more importantly, from an interview with LucasArts Executive Producer Tom Nichols: TN: What we’ve talked about, and shown in the demo, is that you’ll have choices, especially in conversations, in which you can choose a light/dark side choice regardless of what side or class you are on. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker, the new Jar-Jar!
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Excellence Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 6/7 5:10pm Subject: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]
	What's the big deal with that? That's standard options for games as far back as Shadows of Amn. As a heroic Paladin I could speak nicely or not. Give money or take by force. Much to the displeased sentiments of most of the party, sans Viconia, who saw growing potential in me. -----signature----- Rock-a-by baby, on the treetop, Beaming with pride, the filth they hold, But when the wind blows, my temper implodes, High above a pit, filled with sharkticons, Down will come hardcover addicts, beaming no more. ©
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Zorrixor Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 6/7 5:14pm Subject: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]
	IIRC, in NWN2 don't you need to remain Lawful Good to level up as a Paladin? I think if you play a bad character the whole time simply ending up Neutral Good would mean having to swap to levelling Fighter or Cleric or whatever instead. Not that I expect anything like that in a game like TOR with far less classes and probably no multiclassing.
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_Catherine_ Registered: Jun '07	Date Posted: 6/8 12:46pm Subject: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]
	If this game really has Darth Vader leading an army of Darth Revans in an LAAT against a time-shifted Jedi Temple while Star Destroyers and V-wings bombard Coruscant, I may have to seriously reconsider my anti-MMO platform. Now, if only the final product features a quest in which the player can fight some sort of Old Republic battle mech in snowy terrain, it will have exceeded my wildest dreams. -----signature----- There ain't no rust on the happiness bus.
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DarthMane2 Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 6/8 1:10pm Subject: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]
	_Catherine_ posted: If this game really has Darth Vader leading an army of Darth Revans in an LAAT against a time-shifted Jedi Temple while Star Destroyers and V-wings bombard Coruscant, I may have to seriously reconsider my anti-MMO platform. Now, if only the final product features a quest in which the player can fight some sort of Old Republic battle mech in snowy terrain, it will have exceeded my wildest dreams. You know I get your exaggeration of the whole game vid, but that idea just like you have it would be the coolest thing ever. -----signature----- "Infidel defilers. They shall all drown in lakes of blood. Now they will know why they are afraid of the dark. Now they will learn why they fear the night." "When in doubt,... attack"- George S. Patton still Strad's #1 fan
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Zorrixor Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 6/8 1:23pm Subject: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]
	Weren't they going to add Hoth to SWG once? Maybe that'll make it into TOR.
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Magnuskn Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 6/8 3:55pm Subject: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]
	Zorrixor posted: Weren't they going to add Hoth to SWG once? Maybe that'll make it into TOR. Luke: So, Han, I was on patrol with my Tauntaun, and guess what I found? Han: Snow? Luke: No, an Republic base, really old. Han: Sweet! Luke: Yeah, so I thought. But just when I wanted to go into it to take a look around, I noticed that sign "Danger: Terantateks" and I turned RIGHT around... -----signature----- Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet Serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet the Force.
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Gratulor Registered: May '08	Date Posted: 6/9 1:23am Subject: Star Wars: The Old Republic (Bioware MMO) [Was KotOR III/MMO?]
	Zorrixor posted: Weren't they going to add Hoth to SWG once? Maybe that'll make it into TOR. Probably they'll try working Ilum or some other iceworld in there and make a battle of Hoth clone. -----signature----- "Allir fara, þá feigðin kallar. "
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