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Topic:
The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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Chimpo
Registered:
Dec '07
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Date Posted:
3/11 12:32pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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CooperTFN posted:
Trip posted:
I don't know what that face is saying, Trip. You're nauseous? 
posted:
Have you not considered two things: 1) That the majority of the readers here at TFN evidently are of the opinion that this is a mediocre novel?
For all that means.
It's like saying that 10000 BC is a good movie because it no.1 on box office
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CooperTFN
Title: TF.n EU Staff Emeritus
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
3/11 12:46pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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True, but it's also like saying it's a bad movie because of what a couple people at work told you (which, incidentally, is a true story  )
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Mike Cooper's Official Site http://www.helikitty.com "Your tongues can't repel flavor of that magnitude!" "If nobody KNOWS that they're related, is it that big of a deal?" - Eleventh_Guard "I bid you all Dark Greetings!"
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xoubara
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
3/11 1:08pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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dgxxx posted:
- 0.5 for not ending the book at Fondor.
You know, this is something I hardly see but love to. I've always been fond of what we could call the third act, which I hope to find in Invincible, explaining how things are after the war, just like in TUF. Its last part was amongst the best things I've read in the whole EU
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rhonderoo
Title:
Former Head Admin
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
3/11 1:34pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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Sorry, Havac. I need to pay attention to what thread I'm in. (Notes that this is not the sticky spoiler thread)
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DT421 
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canadianjedimama
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
3/11 1:59pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
- Date Edited:
3/11 2:01pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
canadianjedimama
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Okay, I'm throwin' my 2 creds onto the table here....
I liked the book. And I didn't like it. But I'm a girl so I can have two opinions So there.
What I liked:
-Fett calling Han Solo "the space bum". That was funny.
-Luke and the Jedi opening yet another can of whoop-arse on Darth Jacen.
-battle of Fondor, a little long winded, but very cool none the less.
-Jaina getting a little perspective on how the other side lives.
Honourable mention: Luke realizing that his little boy aint so little anymore.
What I didn't like:
-Tahiri as Jacen's apprentice. That was a Star Destroyer out of Left Field.
-Gilad Pealleon goes down to a blaster bolt. Who was in charge of his security detail that day and were they fired?
-Niathal's agonizing over who feels more guilty about those who have lost their lives during Jacen's mad scramble for power, her or Luke Skywalker. Are you kidding me? You have bigger things to worry about than who gets more sleep at night.
Honourable Mention: Jaina's fingernails being "perfectly manicured". Oi. She's a Jedi and a fighter jock, did I miss the memo about Endor having a day spa?
What gave me a "What the Kriff" moment:
-Jacen and Shevu. The whole "he doesn't like me, but I'll tell him my dirty little secret because then I'll feel better." Darth Emo Strikes Back!
I read Star Wars to escape for a few minutes (or hours ) from everyday real life. I don't look for some truly epic piece of thought provoking fiction. Especially not in a Star Wars novel. And we didn't get one here. And that's okay with me.
If I was looking at this with a critical eye, well, then I'd have to "Yeah That" to YodaKenobi's post.
But I'm not, so I didn't. 
Overall, I'd give 'er a 6.5/10. Book automatically loses a point for telling me more than I ever cared to know about the Fett. Otherwise, an okay read. It even made me laugh out loud a few times too.
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Lucky member of the Jagateers, my e-sister's of Jag-love! Death of The Calrissian Pimp-Cane 43 ABY May tha playa rest in peace, yo.
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Trip
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
3/11 4:51pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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CooperTFN posted:
I don't know what that face is saying, Trip. You're nauseous?
Just bummered out. I figured at least you wouldn't buy into the Traviss Under Siege! silliness.
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AnnLouise
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
3/11 6:31pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
- Date Edited:
3/11 7:09pm (5 edits total)
Edited By:
AnnLouise
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rhonderoo posted:
AnnLouise posted:
I think that the added vehemence comes in part from the negative sentiments towards the Jedi expressed by characters tracks so closely with statements from the author. Calling the Jedi "spoonbenders", referring to "my Mandos", and calling Order 66 "overdue" doesn't quite jibe with just "referring to the Jedi as the characters see them".
So people are reviewing the author's personal beliefs and opinions instead of what she wrote in the book?
Ah. Gotcha.
The interview stuck out because I read it after finishing the book. I wasn't thrilled with the anti-Jedi views expressed as the book progressed. So I was unhappy with the book first, then the views expressed by the author in her interview. If she's writing a book that has as major characters a group she appears to have such distain for, it's fair to comment on. Her other books in the series were ok by me; not super, but were worth the time spent reading them. Even in Sacrifice, while I hated to see Mara die, I felt KT didn't let her go out a chump. After that ending, this book had none of the "Luke will crush you" action I was looking forward to.
I mean, this isn't unique to KT. Jane Austen is the genius, and everything she wrote was genius. But I'm now trying for the umpteenth time, to finish Mansfield Park, IMO her least genius piece of work. What does this have to do with KT, you ask?
Ms. Austen looooved the heroine she created in MP, expressed that admiration, and made no secret about it. Most readers however, find this character to be a self-righteous, moralizing prig, and want to knock over the pedestal Austen put Fanny Price on. Another case of an author's view of character(s) mirrored in a book, which many readers disagree with.
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CooperTFN
Title: TF.n EU Staff Emeritus
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
3/11 10:00pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
- Date Edited:
3/11 10:03pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
CooperTFN
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posted:
I figured at least you wouldn't buy into the Traviss Under Siege! silliness.
I don't - to the extent of having once gotten in trouble for saying so. But that's not the issue here - I liked the book. End of story.
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Mike Cooper's Official Site http://www.helikitty.com "Your tongues can't repel flavor of that magnitude!" "If nobody KNOWS that they're related, is it that big of a deal?" - Eleventh_Guard "I bid you all Dark Greetings!"
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QuentinGeorge
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
3/11 10:13pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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So people are reviewing the author's personal beliefs and opinions instead of what she wrote in the book?
No. The beef is that said personal beliefs and opinions seem to hard-wired into the narrative. If you're going to be snarky, how about you actually respond to people's points, not whatever anti-authorial crusade you perceive to people to be engaged in?
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Yar
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Kaje
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
3/12 2:02am
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
- Date Edited:
3/12 2:18am (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Kaje
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Finished it a couple hours ago. I'm giving it a 3/10. I'm surprised; I usually rate books very high.
-Had to dock points for the ridiculous number of unnecessary Naboo references (I counted about five in the first fifty pages, and a few more after that). Naboo is hardly a major galactic hub, so why does everyone make little mentions of minor aspects of Naboo culture. And Niathal's mention of ancient sea-going vessels would have been a lot more interesting and believable had it been on Mon Calamari, not Naboo. Basically, it was annoying as hell.
-At the end of Fury, Ben was the only major character besides Caedus to know that Jacen was an actual Sith rather than just your average garden-variety darksider. By the beginning of Revelation, Luke and the Solos know too. I'm not saying it's a continuity error or anything like that, as Ben could certainly have finally mentioned it between books. But dammit, we deserved to see that! The readers deserve to witness Luke, Leia, and Han realizing that Jacen is seriously a real live Sith Lord. But no, by Revelation, they seem to have taken the information pretty much in stride.
-That reminds me, is Karen Traviss even aware that there's a distinction between Sith and dark Jedi? It doesn't seem like it, especially since both Ben and Luke describe the Sith as, to paraphrase, "Jedi who use the dark side." Come on. That's demeaning to both Sith and Jedi. It's like those Council members who had no problem with the name, "Jedi Civil War."
-Traviss is a writer of relatively "hard" sci-fi, a far cry from the "science fantasy" of Star Wars. Her style works really well for the Republic Commando novels, and I'd love to read more SW books by her if they were primarily about commandos or pilots or Mandalorians. But it is completely wrong for a series that is primarily about Jedi and Sith. These are fricking mages. This is fantasy. Allston's swashbuckling style and Denning's fantastical one fit Legacy of the Force really well, but Traviss's hard sci-fi simply does not. It is far too slow and methodical to feel like Star Wars. I seriously wanted to Force-choke Ben during his police investigation on Kavan.
-The lack of a Luke POV was really fricking annoying during the Battle of Fondor. We keep getting told that the Jedi are probably out there, doing somethings, but I really couldn't believe it.
-Eleven Mandos capture a Star Destroyer, and not one of them dies. Please.
-The Empire apparently has hundreds of Imperial Guards. Why were none of them guarding the chief of state on the Bloodfin?
-This is the first Traviss book that I actually agree with the charges of Jedi-hatin. It really is ridiculously over-the-top.
Of course, it's not all bad. The return of Daala was awesome, and I am genuinely saddened by the loss of Pellaeon, the only death I've cared about in LOTF so far. And I'm pleasantly surprised by Niathal, just as I was with Cal Omas' near his end. And I mostly liked the Mandalorian stuff.
Why am I still awake at 4 am? I have no idea.
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DaRonin
Registered:
Jan '05
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Date Posted:
3/12 3:35am
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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dgxxx posted:
I rate the book 6.5.
I was about to rate it at 8, but...
- 0.5 for the uber jedi hatin.
- 0.5 for ridiculous Jacen "hey Shevu Im teh Sith!" .
- 0.5 for not ending the book at Fondor.
Jedi hatin? not quite. I think it's just some decent writing and thought put into this. The last galactic battle was about the vong Vs Jedi, and the rest of the galaxy got dragged into it. The ones before that were also Mostly Jedi Vs Sith, I think after a few millenea, the galaxy at large, or at least certain parts of it, would be a bit ticked off of the Jedi being at the center, and seemingly a flashpoint for most major galactic conflicts.
As for the book, I liked it mostly. I'm a bit irked at Luke not killing Jacen. Luke was ready to slice him like sashimi at a sushi bar back in Inferno, now he's all like "Jacen, lets talk about our feelings". It was cool seeing him utterly own Jacen after the "Emo Master" characterization that Alliston gave luke in Fury, but It kind of irked me, and all the different viewpoints about the Luke/Jacen confrontations (denning, luke p33wns him but lets him go to save his son, Alliston; luke and Jacen are too even, and luke is a basketcase, Traviss: Luke is a humanist and won't kill him) just really breaks up the overall flow and storytelling of the series.
But, it was interestng seeing a Daala that can walk and chew bubblegum for once. The EU writers present her as being that cool again, and I MAY just forgive her for being a Kevin J Anderson creation/plot device.
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QuentinGeorge
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
3/12 3:44am
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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The Vong weren't fighting against the Jedi. They were trying to conquer the entire galaxy and cleanse it of infidels. The Jedi just happened to get in the way.
Sweet Zombie Jesus, I have no idea where people get this "Jedi cause all wars cos they are involved in them!". That is akin to saying police cause crime, since they always seem to be arresting criminals.
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Nobody145
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
3/12 4:33am
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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Yeah, the Vong hated the Jedi, but its not like its the Jedi's fault that the Vong invaded, despite the idiotic Peace Brigade's claims. Its arguable other wars were due to the Jedi vs. Sith ongoing clash, but the Vong had nothing to do with that. All the Vong hatred was due to the Jedi being some of the only competent beings in the galaxy, as well as the Jedi were actually trying their best to stop the Yuuzhan Vong while most of the galaxy was either for appeasement, capitulation or just general anarchy. Tsavong Lah had a strange obsession with the Jedi, but his anti-Jedi annoucnments (like no more invasions if the Vong get all the Jedi) were also meant to divide the galaxy and to get rid of the Jedi... and unfortunately, the galaxy fell apart all too easily.
Its still arguable whether the major wars are due to the Jedi vs. Sith thing. Its not like normal people aren't corrupt, greedy, evil or stupid enough to cause their own wars. Its just that the Sith want galactic domination, and the Jedi are usually the only ones with the strength to stop them. Sure, the Sith hate the Jedi (and its probably a mutual feeling, or at least the Jedi are very wary), but that's also because the Jedi are an obstacle on their path to galactic domination.
Jedi and Sith are usually the most powerful beings in the galaxy, so they frequently end up as the focal points of wars. And even if a Jedi sect wasn't even formed, than another Force sect would've led to an evil Sith equivalent, it is inevitable. Just because the Mandos complained about it a lot in this book, doesn't make them automatically right, despite the narrative bias.
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dgxxx
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
3/12 6:51am
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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Reply in the discussion thread 
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The Force is strong in Peru too!
Unofficial #EU Chatkiller.
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rhonderoo
Title:
Former Head Admin
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
3/12 8:17am
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
- Date Edited:
3/12 8:21am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
rhonderoo
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QuentinGeorge posted:
So people are reviewing the author's personal beliefs and opinions instead of what she wrote in the book?
No. The beef is that said personal beliefs and opinions seem to hard-wired into the narrative. If you're going to be snarky, how about you actually respond to people's points, not whatever anti-authorial crusade you perceive to people to be engaged in?
I suggest you chill and quit baiting me. If you can't hear a differing viewpoint without getting personally offended, or overly defensive, you aren't in the right place. There is no one telling you or anyone else they can't have a negative opinion about anything written or drawn in SW. But as a reminder for you (and everyone else), leave personal comments out of your post. About me (and each other), and to a large extent about authors. That's the rule here and a warning, folks, and you'll be held to them.
I suggest we all do what Havac asked and if you're not reviewing the book, post in the sticky spoiler discussion.
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DT421
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