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Topic:
The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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jacenskylo
Registered:
Feb '06
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Date Posted:
3/27 7:08pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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Lord_Hydronium posted:
jacenskylo posted:
As people have pointed out this series is essentially a rehash of the prequels.
Yes, and "people" are full of it. A few superficial details and general plot points != rehash.
I didn't mean rehash in a negative sense. I meant that there are several similarities between the 2 is all. I for one don't subscribe to what most people think. I'm just making an observation based upon what people have stated on the boards. Personally I think this is a great series and as the man said "the circle is now complete"
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Obi-kokey
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
3/27 7:23pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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1/10
YodaKenobi and DS_Emp_Viper among others have already sumarised my own feelings towards this book pretty much perfectly, so I'll try not to repeat their points. The 1 point was for at least bringing the Empire back into play.
Daarla - of all the surviving Imperials to bring back, Travis chose Daarla? The same Daarla who incompetently squandered the last of the Empires major resources against a target of no strategic importance what so ever, before dumping the remaining mess in Pelly's lap? Pelleon sounds in awe of her throughout, why? It was nice to see the Chimaera again though.
We get a new ship! Oh its just a bite-sized Star Destroyer? Great.
Characters acting inconsistently has been par for the course in this series, I've come to expect this from Jacen, but Jaina's sudden change has come out of nowhere. I've never particularly liked her character especially since she became a bug, but she has always been depicted as one of the toughest, most militant Jedi. Here she's letting Mando's boss her around and tell her she has no value as a pilot - she was in ROGUE SQUADRON.
Niathal has made a one-eighty which I don't feel was justified but it didn't bother me that much.
Jacen, at the outset of this series I really liked the way Jacen was depicted, a Force user who would do anything for the greater good. Others called him mad from the start but I had faith that the authors would stand by that characterisation (though I fully expected it would ultimately be proven wrong in context of the universe). I was naive, Jacen is totally inconsistent: suddenly dismissing his feelings for Allana, and suddenly becoming upset that not everyone loves him - he accepted that as a sacrifice that a Sith bringing order would have to accept since the beginning (he had pretty much accepted being unpopular in Dark Nest). The "confession" actually made me laugh out loud, particularly when he said how he should be referred to as Lord, but maybe that was a diliberate moment of humour on Travis part. He just comes across as crazy and out of his league. Not that him being a Sith seemed to come as a surprise or alarm anyone that much.
Jacen should have had a major victory somewhere in the series, instead he's arguablly more incompetent than Daarla ever was, consistently being made a fool of and losing every engagment he is involved in (aside from killing Mara and razing Kashyyyk both of which were pretty stupid moves anyway, though the pale in comparison to the tragic death of Tebut!). He is not a credible threat. The war itself has remained very ill defined, often being referred to a Coruscant vs. all. One of the things that really help the NJO was the maps at the start of each book with the Vong invasion corridor, here we get virtually no written description as to who is fighting who anymore.
I can accept authors having subplots with their favorite characters, even making them seem a little better than they probably should be (I was always fond of Corran Horn), but Travis took things way too far here. The Mando's aren't a subplot here, they've hijacked the entire book. We barely see Luke, Han and Leia let alone guys like Wedge, Allana or the rest of the Jedi order. In itself this would have been bad, but it has NOTHING to do with overall plot and themes of the series. Worse still it's not a good storyline anyway, Boba Fett is a pathetic character, a seventy year old man who hasn't got over his daddy issues. Do we really need to read about his endless wealth and inability to deal with his feelings? Over and over again. I used to like Fett and the Mandalorians, now I would hate them but I can't even reconcile the two versions.
I gave the Jaina training the benefit of doubt, I figured we would get to see her learn to fight dirty, use traps and guile to take down Jacen. Instead she learns a bit of the lingo (useless), how to fight with a metal saber (also useless) and to go into a berserker fury (Darkside). If she does use this to fight Jacen in the final book she is no better than he is.
Caf. Naboo. Oya. Caf. Mando'a. Caf. Caf. Naboo. Caf. Caf. Caf. Beskar. Caf. The constant use of these words is very grating as is another reference "who shot first" reference.
I feel fully justified in giving this book a one, over the years I've read 77 of the novels, many of the comics and almost all the videogames. This series and this book in particular has me reluctant to ever buy another Star Wars book again, that's how disheartening I've found it. The quality has been so low, the storyline incoherent, overstretched and forgetable. I'm going to buy Invincible, there's a small chance Denning will redeem things, if that's bad I'll take a break from the books, I'll certainly never buy into anything they put out longer than a trilogy again.
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Manisphere
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
3/27 7:33pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
- Date Edited:
3/27 7:36pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Manisphere
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Wow. I'd hate to see the average rating at this point. I think it's a good thing Havoc stopped. 
Edit:
Darth_Carl99 posted:
No Havoc to be seen so I guess I’ll have to be the trouble causer here  .
566.72/98=5.78 average score.
Whoops. I see someone is still tallying.
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_Catherine_
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
3/27 8:35pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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Manisphere posted:
Wow. I'd hate to see the average rating at this point. I think it's a good thing Havoc stopped.
Edit:
Darth_Carl99 posted:
No Havoc to be seen so I guess I’ll have to be the trouble causer here .
566.72/98=5.78 average score.
Whoops. I see someone is still tallying.
589.02/105=5.61, now.
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Lord_Hydronium
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
3/27 8:53pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
- Date Edited:
3/27 8:58pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lord_Hydronium
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jacenskylo posted:
I didn't mean rehash in a negative sense. I meant that there are several similarities between the 2 is all.
But there aren't. Like I said, there's general plot points (some guy falls to the dark side, the dominant galactic government faces a secession crisis) and a few superficial similarities (Confederacy sounds kinda like Confederation of Independent Systems). And even those similarities break down in the details. Is Jacen the Anakin-analogue, or is he the Palpatine one? If Lumiya's Palpatine, did I miss the part of the PT where Palpatine is killed by...Obi-Wan, I guess, before completing Anakin's training, and Anakin takes over the Republic? And who's Ben in all this? Maybe Jacen's Palpatine and Ben's Anakin, but then this is about Jacen's fall to the dark side, and that still leaves us wondering who Lumiya is. And of course there were the comparisons after Betrayal of Nelani and Mace, so maybe that's it: Jacen is Anakin, Lumiya is Palpatine, Nelani is Mace, and Ben is...the Secret Apprentice.
Oh, and apparently a part of the Republic formed a third faction along with the Jedi in the middle of the Clone Wars--though if we say the attack on Ossus and Order 66 are parallels, I guess that would be during the Clone Wars but after the Jedi are attacked on the orders of Palpanakin and leave the Republic. Oh, and Thrackan would be Dooku, I guess. And he's killed by...wait, crap, Han's gotta be Anakin too now.
And then we still have to find equivalents of Jaina, Mara, the Imperial Remnant, and the Mandalorians in the PT, and Grievous and the clone and droid armies in LOTF. Seeing as how this is such an obvious rehash that there's nothing original going on (not that you've said that, but it's been said).
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jacenskylo
Registered:
Feb '06
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Date Posted:
3/27 11:04pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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Lord_Hydronium posted:
jacenskylo posted:
I didn't mean rehash in a negative sense. I meant that there are several similarities between the 2 is all.
But there aren't. Like I said, there's general plot points (some guy falls to the dark side, the dominant galactic government faces a secession crisis) and a few superficial similarities (Confederacy sounds kinda like Confederation of Independent Systems). And even those similarities break down in the details. Is Jacen the Anakin-analogue, or is he the Palpatine one? If Lumiya's Palpatine, did I miss the part of the PT where Palpatine is killed by...Obi-Wan, I guess, before completing Anakin's training, and Anakin takes over the Republic? And who's Ben in all this? Maybe Jacen's Palpatine and Ben's Anakin, but then this is about Jacen's fall to the dark side, and that still leaves us wondering who Lumiya is. And of course there were the comparisons after Betrayal of Nelani and Mace, so maybe that's it: Jacen is Anakin, Lumiya is Palpatine, Nelani is Mace, and Ben is...the Secret Apprentice.
Oh, and apparently a part of the Republic formed a third faction along with the Jedi in the middle of the Clone Wars--though if we say the attack on Ossus and Order 66 are parallels, I guess that would be during the Clone Wars but after the Jedi are attacked on the orders of Palpanakin and leave the Republic. Oh, and Thrackan would be Dooku, I guess. And he's killed by...wait, crap, Han's gotta be Anakin too now.
And then we still have to find equivalents of Jaina, Mara, the Imperial Remnant, and the Mandalorians in the PT, and Grievous and the clone and droid armies in LOTF. Seeing as how this is such an obvious rehash that there's nothing original going on (not that you've said that, but it's been said).
Again this is based on my opinions/observations based off of what I've read looking into the series and what many have said on the boards. This doesn't mean that I've included everyone. People can have 2 different opinions or observations about the same thing. I would also like to politely stress that I meant similarites and not simply rehash. I think we can both agree that there are some fans who simply feel this is a rehash. I however do not, I also believe we can politely agree to disagree. Also according to Havoc this isn't the forum to be having this discussion
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"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home" Edward R. Murrow
"People shouldn't be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people" V
"Awww shutup and shoot something" Cade Skywalker
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Bhurak
Registered:
Dec '05
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Date Posted:
3/28 6:25am
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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Although I can't say I didn't enjoy parts of this book, it only get's a 3 from me.
It's hardly a fresh observation at this point, but I am sick of the Jedi bashing. I get it, KT hates the Jedi. It doesn't bug me in Republic Commando, and in general her take on the "Common Man's" distrust of Jedi is interesting (if not new - Peace Brigade, etc.)... but this book is over the top. I'm beaten down. I can't take it.
However, despite this, I'd happily give the book a higher rating because I still enjoy the overall story arc of LotF. Additionally the extremely tight POV style typically make KT's books peculiarly engaging for me. Unfortunately I have to remove points for the unacceptable sloppiness of the editing in this book.
Many examples have been shown earlier, but here is another time two characters independently make an identical obscure reference. Pellaeon ruminates that Tahiri is like Jacen's Villip. Great, that's a novel view of her. But then, a few pages later Mirta independently describes her as a Villip. It reduces the effect and makes it clear that it is the Author's idea and not the characters'.
Another: In the last chapter, Jaina uses a flame/fire metaphor to describe what her next actions will be like, but she does it twice! It's like it was being tried out in a few places, but then just left. Simply removing the final sentence from the chapter improves the reading in my opinion.
Enough for now.
Here's to expecting better in Invincible!
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AnnLouise
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
3/28 8:28am
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
- Date Edited:
3/28 8:42am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
AnnLouise
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Darth_Raptor posted:
If anything good at all can come from this, it's that (and I really hate to admit this) I'm looking forward to reading Traviss' version of Order66. Finally, she can really be let loose and her mando boys and rid the galaxy of alot of those bothersome Jedi. I'd venture to say that her excitement toward being able kill many Jedi with mandos in a book would make even ole' Emperor Palpatine say "whoa there, calm down a bit." It should be an interesting perspective.
Well, she has said "Believe me, Order 66 was long overdue" - it was in the interview link in YodaKenobi's review near the beginning of this thread.
Wonderful, we can finally see the positive side of a genocidal slaughter.
How KT can make this kind of statement, then brush off critcism of the anti-Jedi diatribes in Revelations because she's just saying things from the characters perspective.
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Trepidation
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
3/28 9:37am
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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Incidentally, I don't suppose it would be too much to ask that Troy Denning fill in one of the glaring gaps from "The Swarm War" and tell us who ratted out Han and Leia to the Chiss causing them to be captured. I'm pretty sure Jag would know who it was...
I think it was probably Jacen (although the act would partially contradict his stance at the time)...but that's still bugging me a bit and could be relevant to "Invincible."
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_Catherine_
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
3/28 10:43am
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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592.02/106=5.59
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Havac
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
3/28 11:43am
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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Ladies, gents. If you want to discuss, there's a discussion thread. And here or there, discuss the work, not the author personally.
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NelanisGhost
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
3/28 12:08pm
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
- Date Edited:
3/28 1:14pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Havac
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I "have" to admit nothing, but you do have to abide by a warning to stop talking about it.
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Mange
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
3/29 3:12am
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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Manisphere posted:
Wow. I'd hate to see the average rating at this point. I think it's a good thing Havoc stopped.
Edit:
Darth_Carl99 posted:
No Havoc to be seen so I guess I’ll have to be the trouble causer here .
566.72/98=5.78 average score.
Whoops. I see someone is still tallying.
Yes, why does Havac no longer keep the score?
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Dougie_Five
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
3/29 3:53am
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
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AnnLouise posted:
Well, she has said "Believe me, Order 66 was long overdue" - it was in the interview link in YodaKenobi's review near the beginning of this thread.
Wonderful, we can finally see the positive side of a genocidal slaughter.
How KT can make this kind of statement, then brush off critcism of the anti-Jedi diatribes in Revelations because she's just saying things from the characters perspective.
Why do people keep referring to order-66 as "genocide"? The Jedi aren't a race, they're a religion (or a cult, arguably).
FWIW, I enjoyed Revelation, but have since read up of the whole KT affair and combined with youda_kenobi's mostly justified criticisms (I disagree with maybe 1/3rd of what he had to say) and it leaves me with a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.
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Mange
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
3/29 4:12am
Subject:
RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
- Date Edited:
3/29 4:14am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Mange
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Dougie_Five posted:
AnnLouise posted:
Well, she has said "Believe me, Order 66 was long overdue" - it was in the interview link in YodaKenobi's review near the beginning of this thread.
Wonderful, we can finally see the positive side of a genocidal slaughter.
How KT can make this kind of statement, then brush off critcism of the anti-Jedi diatribes in Revelations because she's just saying things from the characters perspective.
Why do people keep referring to order-66 as "genocide"? The Jedi aren't a race, they're a religion (or a cult, arguably).
While the Jedi encompassed a great number of species, they had something which united them and separated them from the general population: Attunement to the Force. In that sense, Order 66 was indeed a genocide. However, this is out of the scope of this thread.
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