Author Topic: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
LucasBuiltMeHotRod  350 posts
Registered: Aug '02
19249_20-Sided Die
Date Posted: 3/2/08 10:15pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
LucasBuiltMeHotRod posted:
YodaKenobi, if I could I would Paypal you a six pack to thank you for that review...I can't believe I read that whole thing!!!

Let us remain safely on the good side of the line.


Sorry Havac...

 

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Havac  14251 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 3/2/08 10:24pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
Average score: 260.21/39 = 6.67

 

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PointGiven  734 posts
Registered: Dec '06
6466_Soontir Fel
Date Posted: 3/2/08 10:36pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
Sorry to go off topic, but would anyone have that old line graph of all of the LotF ratings? I recall it being posted in the Fury Reviews one, but can't find it.

 

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Dunc T'racen  776 posts
Registered: Mar '00
43737_Marasiah Fel
Date Posted: 3/3/08 12:58am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
- Luke and Ben were decent. The last bits with them were really quite good, but not enough to make up for all the other stuff.
- Daala was just... What? Since when is she Thrawn 2.0? She is Admiral Daala. Can't buy it.
- Yeah, Mandos are awesome. We get it.
- Seriously. We get it.
- ::throws up hands::

3.5. Extra half-point because the Daala stuff made me laugh, and I suppose that counts for something.

 

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jedimaster203  989 posts
Registered: Dec '99
14387_Caine<br>by Matthew Stover  (A&A)
Date Posted: 3/3/08 2:44am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
solid read. 8 out of 10

 

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HanSolOKniser3  1447 posts
Registered: Dec '03
48748_Mara Jade (630093)
Date Posted: 3/3/08 3:42am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers) - Date Edited: 3/3/08 3:51am (2 edits total) Edited By: HanSolOKniser3
*Kazam!*

This book is laughingly bad. Which is the only reason that I was able to sludge thru it and find anything actually Naboo in it. I mean good in it. Bloodfin! Mando'babble. What? All Force-users are evil? Equally so? Perhaps. The Fadalorians are the super-coolest? Check. Ancient Irmenu prophecies? Yes! An on-screen "revelation" that Jacen's a Sith. Yes... but only after starting the book with the "revelation" that everyone seems to actually know this already? Yes! Check! Bloodfin! Nab-ooo! Mando, mando mando? Mando. Possible veiled insult to readers who were upset about how Mara died in Sacrifice? Possibly. Mando! Continued Skywalker/Solo/Jedi debasing juxtaposed with the glorious rebirth of the Fetts and Mandalore? Oh heck yeah. Bloodfins? Yes. Enjoyable space-battles? Not really. Caedus=cool? Nope. He's a caricature. Just like the rest of the book? Kinda. CSI Ben and Shevu? Yes... the best plotline of the novel actually. Naboo? Evidently... perhaps Karen just saw the PT. Gratuitous rape? Well... no, yes, maybe... it's used as an "out" of sorts to explain the initial reason Boba leaves Sinta... and it's also what I believe to be Ms. Traviss' "proudest" "revelation" of the book. Also it's in strange contrast with Boba's lecture/scolding to Jaina about wanting "heroes" who are "blameless." (Quotes mine... I think.) Mando. Daala? Yes. Cool? Sure. Pellaeon? Bloodfin. Tahiri? In name only. Mara's murderer revealed? Yes. In a very moving scene actually... the single best parts of the book actually. (But why does Karen use the name Jacen during Caedus' confession, when it's been such a point of emphasis to seperate the two entities? ?) Mara's Force-ghost? Yes. Although her encounter with Luke is "off-camera"... which is good really, because I don't think that Karen writes (or likes) Luke very well.

In conclusion the Legacy of the Farce's 8th book, Revelation, is it's second worst. It's an inadvertant comedy with one golden moment.

My score: 2 out of 10

Naboo.

 

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xx_Anakin_xx  1762 posts
Registered: Jan '08
45272_Cade Skywalker
Date Posted: 3/3/08 4:27am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)

YodaKenobi posted:
More on 403 from Jaina's lobotomized POV:
Had anyone tried to redeem Palpatine, or that apprentice of his on Naboo? No. But Vader... Vader had turned out to be family. Uncle Luke had bothered to look for the good in him.

Umm, no. Vader was redeemed because it was his destiny and he was the only one who could bring balance to the Force. It was the Will of the Force. Also, Luke has went to great lengths to redeem others, like Raynar Thul!

How does Jaina know if anyone tried to redeem Palpy or Maul?

This is also is nonsensical. Palpatine and Maul were never Jedi. They were always Sith— you can't bring them back into the light when they've never been there.


Great post, but the above really cracked me up when I read it in the book. That the Jedi only try to redeem family blew past EU to pieces - and the movies if you don't count Obi-Wan and Anakin as family. But when I thought back on the idea of Qui-Gon Ginn trying to redeem Darth Maul, either on Tatooine or on Naboo, considering the circumstances, I was rolling on the floor laughing.

And if Luke hadn't sensed the good in Vader, he certainly wouldn't have stood trying to convince him of it - I mean Obi-Wan, Yoda and even Leia told him it was an impossible dream and basically to give up hope and just kill Vader - and he would have except for what he felt in the force. But anyway, it was just another in a laundry list of statements made to convince us that the Jedi were a worthless breed of useless minions to an outdated Force - or "force" as it was rendered in this latest literary effort. I'm afraid though that I wasn't even altogether pleased with the few things you did like about it as my rating of .06/10 indicated. That wasn't arbitrary, I actually parsed the story into sections and rated them. I only hope that Denning can do something with what he's been left with. I really don't care about continuity at this point, I would rather he flat out contradicted Revelation.

 

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Robimus  3654 posts
Registered: Jul '07
13691_HK-47
Date Posted: 3/3/08 9:19am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
I don't think the Daala or Fett Point of Veiws in the novel are wrong, even if they do represent a bit of Karen Traviss's own veiws. Fett likely still resents the Jedi for the murder of his father and Daala could easily be clinging hatred of the Jedi for killing Tarkin and helping topple the Empire. I'm actually sure both those characters have no reason to like the Jedi, and everyone has reason to hate the Sith.

 

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Havac  14251 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 3/3/08 9:20am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
Average score: 273.71/42 = 6.52

 

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Arissa  1373 posts
Registered: Apr '03
42239_Binary Sunset
Date Posted: 3/3/08 9:57am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
YodaKenobi

applause applause

Sad but true. tired
But surprisingly I enjoyed it more than Sacrifice and Bloodlines despite the Jedi bashing and the Mando glorification.
Traviss isn´t a bad writer, but her writing and Star Wars are to me like to puzzle pieces that don´t fit together very well.

5/10

 

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Qonas  3238 posts
Title: Co-Chapter Rep
& Book Club Leader of Detroit

Registered: Feb '03
24089_Obi-Wans
Date Posted: 3/3/08 10:10am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers) - Date Edited: 3/3/08 10:16am (5 edits total) Edited By: Qonas
YodaKenobi posted:
Best. Post. Ever.


applause Thank you so much for your post! The effort you put in is just amazing, and should go to show just how bad this book is. I couldn't agree more with about everything you said (I tend to cut Boba Fett some slack when it comes to "He's awesome" stuff...I mean, he's Boba Fett tongue I also don't mind Ben as a "cop", it's making him that much better a Jedi as well. I do have issues with his deifying Lekauf, however.) People who actually liked this book need to read your post and then go back over the book and see if they can really live with liking it. There was just so much wrong in the book, from continuity stuff to overblown levels of anti-Jedi sentiment, that I can't see how anyone could like it. This book does so much damage to the Star Wars universe and its characters; everything you listed about Tahiri, about the mishandling of Niathal, about anti-Jedi attitudes in people that attitude should not exist in, about no one daring to defend the Jedi against numerous slanderous assaults (most of which are contradicted by the reality presented in the movies and other EU works), about Jaina just taking it and delving near the Dark Side in doing so, about Daala magically gaining everyone's respect instead of disdain & her subsequent use as an anti-Jedi mouthpiece, about Mando invincibility against a Sith Lord was all dead-on and does real damage to the universe. I still maintain that there were books in the NJO worse than Revelation, but that's a personal thing. Revelation is still one of the worst ever published.

YodaKenobi posted:
The cynical part of me can't help but think someone wanted to stir up some controversy with the introduction of gay characters in the EU and was disappointed that no one seemed to care. It all seems kind of transparent, as if the subtleness with which Medrit was introduced as a male in Sacrifice hadn't gotten the desired response. Translated from Mando'a, I think it reads, "MEDRIT IS GAY!!! DID YOU NOTICE HE'S TEH GAY!!??? GAY!!! also gay men can't usually tell when women are attractive lolers."


This is exactly what I was trying to point out. For the last time, since people still think this, I am not a "homophobe" or fearful of "liberal mind-controlling". I'm looking at it from a literary and common sense perspective. There's no plot or storyline or other reason for this specific gay relationship to exist other than for it to exist. It's there to be political. It's there to be politically correct for the sake of being politically correct, and dare to stir up anti-gay sentiment. That's not what these novels are for. Make your statements some place else.

s65horsey posted:
I agree that usually Traviss' writing is amazing. It wasn't in this book. Much of it was redundant and frustrating. It was confusing on the POV switches and frequently the characters sounded the same.

The issue here is that it was disappointing because it wasn't Traviss. She's better than this.


More than agreed as well. I absolutely love the Republic Commando books, and the other two Legacy entries worked as well. Sacrifice may even be my favorite of the arc. But quite literally every bad thing ever said about Traviss, that I've ever defended Traviss against, came to light in this book. It's not only horrible because of what it does to characters and the Star Wars universe, but to Traviss herself. Her detractors baited and set a trap, and she didn't just walk into it she ran into it. She's much better than this, and I hope she learns and grows from the experience.

 

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The NJO/Daala Accepted by the Heroes and Citizens of the GFFA as Head of the GA are the Worst Things to Ever Happen to the EU
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Havac  14251 posts
Title: Lit Mod of War
Registered: Sep '05
23735_Obi-Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: 3/3/08 10:39am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
Average score: 278.71/43 = 6.48

 

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Zorrixor  4302 posts
Registered: Sep '04
42757_Prince Xizor
Date Posted: 3/3/08 10:57am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers) - Date Edited: 3/3/08 10:58am (1 edits total) Edited By: Zorrixor
Qonas posted:
YodaKenobi posted:
The cynical part of me can't help but think someone wanted to stir up some controversy with the introduction of gay characters in the EU and was disappointed that no one seemed to care. It all seems kind of transparent, as if the subtleness with which Medrit was introduced as a male in Sacrifice hadn't gotten the desired response. Translated from Mando'a, I think it reads, "MEDRIT IS GAY!!! DID YOU NOTICE HE'S TEH GAY!!??? GAY!!! also gay men can't usually tell when women are attractive lolers."


This is exactly what I was trying to point out. For the last time, since people still think this, I am not a "homophobe" or fearful of "liberal mind-controlling". I'm looking at it from a literary and common sense perspective. There's no plot or storyline or other reason for this specific gay relationship to exist other than for it to exist. It's there to be political. It's there to be politically correct for the sake of being politically correct, and dare to stir up anti-gay sentiment. That's not what these novels are for. Make your statements some place else.

Should there have been no mention of Shevu having a wife seeing as it didn't add that much to the story? If the lines about Medrit had been about him being a ladies' man nobody would have cared and it too would have added nothing to the story beyond establishing his character the way this does. I didn't even realise there were comments that could be interpreted as Medrit being gay until just now. If you want to see blatantly unnecessary references that are there just for the sake of having them there to be politically correct go watch an episode of Torchwood, you'll realise that the occassional one liner about Medrit is trivial.

We're well past the age of gay characters turning up "just to make a statement". They turn up all the time in TV, literature and video games these days and this isn't the first example in Star Wars. I don't recall this kind of criticism to Juhani being lesbian though, that was met with the usual wolf whistles and curiousity lesbians tend to recieve. That was no less "unnecessary" though in that it really didn't add anything to the plot other than being put there "because we can". You could practically write a thesis about the kind of "statements" being made in Legacy about single mothers, adultery, promiscuity and so on. Nobody seems to really care about any of those either though.

 

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dp4m  36462 posts
Registered: Nov '01
13878_Luke Skywalker Dark Empire
Date Posted: 3/3/08 11:12am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
Except Juhani was not canonically a lesbian, so your point falls flat there. wink

However, there's no point in most of Star Wars for us to find out ANY of the relationships of any of the other characters but... yet we do. Sure, it may be in there for the sake of being there but that's not an egregious dampening of the Star Wars universe the way the death, dark and despair is. Star Wars has always been about love and hope and conquering the darkness with both. It shouldn't necessarily matter to you where it comes from, should it? happy

 

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DarkScythe  421 posts
Registered: Jun '02
19057_Anakin Solo
Date Posted: 3/3/08 11:20am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: LEGACY OF THE FORCE: REVELATION (Spoilers)
Great review YodaKenobi.

Maybe someone should resurrect the sex thread if the is Juhani a lesbian in canon or not debate is going to show back up.

 

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