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Author	Topic: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 7/6 2:16am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	I'm honestly not that enthused about anything Luke related until Shadows over Mindor. I'm still divided 50-50 on whether or not I'm picking up Millenium Falcon. I haven't bought Coruscant Nights because it is about the Dark times and I really just don't care about them that much. Honestly, I don't want to read about Luke brooding and fretting over Jacen's fall from grace unless he does something heroic in the book or starts to get a new romance. Basically, I want Luke to realize his life is just beginning storyline wise and we can forget about Ben (who I have NO interest in further reading about). I would love to see a Sean Connery like Luke Skywalker being a swashbuckler and adventuring well into his sixties again, recovering all the zest and lust for life that he had in his youth. That's Luke Skywalker to me, not this brooding anti-hero. It was cool in Dark Empire as a form of contrast but its really not interesting me in the modern era. Luke is many things, he is not a hand wringer. -----signature----- Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 7/6 1:10pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3) - Date Edited: 7/6 1:14pm (1 edits total) Edited By: ChildOfWinds
	J_K_DART : My suspicion is that we'll see a rapid acceleration into a Legacy-era government/ Jedi and IK situation, but with Luke, Han and Leia still around. Why do you think they'll keep Luke, Han, and Leia around, Dart? As for Luke and the Imperial Knights, I hope we don't see Luke needing to deal with them, as I'm hoping the Jedi won't splinter under Luke's watch. The only way that I wouldn't mind having the IK's show up during Luke's era would be if Stary is right and the Imperial Knights doin't come from Luke's Order but are from another Force-using group that they suddenly discover. Or, Dart, I do like your other idea about the Imperial Knights coming from the survivors of the Outward Bound Project from Survivor's Quest, as you suggested. I had forgotten about them, but they did go back with the Empire of the Hand. There was at least one Force-sensitive, Evlyn. Perhaps the Imperial knights descended from her. That would be acceptable too. As long as Luke isn't made to be the cause of a split in the Jedi Order, I'm fine with them being around during Luke's lifetime. It would be rather interesting to see his reaction to them. Nobody145 : Watching the Jedi having to work with a really strong anti-Jedi Chief of State , didn't we just conclude with a storyline where the Jedi had to go underground due to an evil ruler? Eventually either the Jedi would have to... deal with her, or they'd just be undermined forever. Which the novels might actually do. I would really love to see Luke and the Jedi Order respected in the galaxy, by both the government and the general populace. It would be so nice to see Luke and his Jedi involved in resolving small-scale conflicts and in adventures in which they journey through the galaxy, helping to resolve problems. As I've said before, I'd like to see the Jedi be the solution and not the problem, for a change. I'd like to see them thought of as a positive presence in the galaxy. With Jacen, Tresina Lobi's dead, Mara's dead, Jacen staged a coup to take over the galaxy, and Luke still hasn't moved against him? Unfortunately, Luke didn't know that Jacen was responsible for the deaths, though he should have done something after Jacen took over the galaxy. However, Jacen did it "legitimately" and was actually popular for a while there, so what could Luke truly do without having the people of the galaxy rise up against the Jedi and say the the Jedi staged a coup and are the enemy?? But you're right: in order to stretch out the story to nine books, Luke had to made to look foolish or he would have figured things out more quickly and found a way to deal with Jacen a lot sooner. And did Luke ever acknowledge Allana's parentage, come to think of it? I'm really not sure whether or not Luke knows about Allana being Jacen's daughter. It certainly wasn't shown on-screen. He should be able to sense it in the Force, but with Del Rey, who knows? Luke seems pretty dense as written lately. Luke did try to capture Jacen in Revelation, with the intention of trying to reach him and turn him back to the Light. But Jacen used innocent people as shields again, and told Luke he (Jacen) didn't need to be redeemed. So Luke was forced to back off. J_K_DART Her basic goal was to do as much damage as she could, and when she decides she can't do it with her ships she decides to crash her Star Destroyer into Coruscant! Never mind civilian casualties, Good synopsis of why Daala is such a poor choice for Chief of State. I can't believe that Luke went along with it. In the first place, she's an IMPERIAL!!! She was never an advocate of a democratic/republican form of government. And, yes, I fear that Daala IS going to be a huge problem for Luke and his Jedi Order. As you said, she was even anti-Jedi in her opening speech! It's not going to be easy for Luke and the other Jedi to deal with her. I truly hope that Luke won't have to take the Jedi underground again. And I disagree that "...it could be interesting," Dart. I think it will be too repetitive and annoying. True. I'm afraid out of universe I'd also cite that Denning just doesn't 'get' Luke. Oh, I'm in complete agreement, Dart! I don't think Denning ever has gotten Luke right. There have been a couple of good scenes with Luke, such as when Luke literally put Jacen in his place in Inferno, sticking him to his chair. But I feel he has always written Luke as darker and "colder", "harsher" than Luke really is. Denning sometimes writes the Grandmaster correctly, but he forgets that the Farmboy is an intregal part of Luke Skywalker too. I was just trying to make the characterization work for me in the story by using the fact that we're seeing Luke from another person's perspective and not from his own, and without knowing what Luke is thinking or feeling. But CoW, I don't think Luke sees himself as the great bringer of peace. I think he sees himself as a servant of the Force, taking on the enemy that is before him; but in every age there will always be another enemy, and so there will always be Jedi. As a result, Luke's legacy is that, in every age, he leaves those willing to confront the darkness. Sometimes unwilling, sometimes confident of their role, but always they are there; whether Kols or Cades, whether co-trained by Jedi from the Dark Times or from his own students, they are there. This is Luke Skywalker's legacy, and that is one of which he would be proud. That is very nicely put, Dart! But for MYSELF, I'd rather see Luke be more successful! I'd like to see him achieve peace, at least for a few lifetimes. I'm disappointed that Luke has spent his whole life as a "servant of the Force", but has so little to show for it. And he himself has had so little peace and joy in his life. A fairytale should end with ..."and they lived happily ever after," and unfortunately, that will never happen for LUke, Han, or Leia, or for their children. Charlemagne19 Honestly, I don't want to read about Luke brooding and fretting over Jacen's fall from grace unless he does something heroic in the book I agree with you, C. I think Luke has done far too much "brooding" and worrying throughout his life. I think that it's time that he becomes more confident and decisive. I don't want Luke to forget about Ben. In fact, I'd love to read some Luke/Ben adventures. But it would be nice to see Luke with a zest for life again and with hope for the future. I don't want to see him written as an anti-hero either. I want Luke to be a true hero with a strong and accurate moral compass. I don't want to see him as a "hand-wringer" or as guilt-ridden or grieving his whole lifetime.
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J_K_DART Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 7/6 2:56pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Well, CoW, there are reasons I think this could be interesting. I expect this series to be the founding of the Imperial Knights, and I can't help asking a single awkward question: What would Daala make of the Imperial Knights? I think she'd hate them. Absolutely revile them. That suggests to me that things could go in an interesting direction; the Empire having Force-sensitives, and so opposed by the ex-Imperial who currently leads the GFFA?!?!? Further, I'm waiting to see the circumstances surrounding the founding of the Knights before I dismiss them out of hand. For all we know, there's no split initially, but Luke deliberately sets up another order, with a slightly different ethos, because he sees the need for them; and the 'split' is after his death. We have no way of knowing yet. The main reason I can't see Luke, Han, or Leia being killed off is simple: The next generation could never hold the books, and I don't think DR are stupid enough to think they could. -----signature----- "Victory without risk is like a pizza without pepperoni." "I like my pizzas without pepperoni." "Sir master of the long post" - Excellence
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NewStaryknight Registered: Dec '07	Date Posted: 7/6 6:38pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3) - Date Edited: 7/6 7:35pm (1 edits total) Edited By: NewStaryknight
	ChildOfWinds posted: I was just trying to make the characterization work for me in the story by using the fact that we're seeing Luke from another person's perspective and not from his own, and without knowing what Luke is thinking or feeling. Yes, but we do get glimpses of the Luke we know and love and what he's thinking and feeling transparently from Jaina's perspective on a few occasions in Invincible.
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 7/6 6:45pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	JK Dart posted: What would Daala make of the Imperial Knights? I think she'd hate them. Absolutely revile them. That suggests to me that things could go in an interesting direction; the Empire having Force-sensitives, and so opposed by the ex-Imperial who currently leads the GFFA?!?!? Actually, I love the whole Second Imperial system is an outright theocracy. Emperor Fel rules less through the power of the Republic/Empire than he does through the power of the Force. Daala's world ruled not by spoon benders is made into something EVEN MORE extreme than the Republic's reliance on the knighthood. In the Fel Empire, the Bureaucracy (Moffs) become totally secondary to the will of magic. -----signature----- Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 7/6 8:23pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3) - Date Edited: 7/6 9:44pm (2 edits total) Edited By: ChildOfWinds
	J_K_DART : I expect this series to be the founding of the Imperial Knights, With a title like "Fate of the Jedi", you could very well be right, Dart. But if that's the case, it would seem that it will take place during Luke's lifetime and that it will involve a rift and ultimate split in the Jedi, thus "Fate of the Jedi". I really wouldn't like that at all, because it would mean that Luke couldn't stabilize and unite the Order into a cohesive, flourishing, useful group. But the way that Del Rey seems to be rushing to connect its dots with those of Legacy, I think it's highly possible. But if they are created in FotJ, I think they might not be Imperial knights first, but perhaps Jedi who decide to work for the government and its leader...Daala, while Luke chooses to keep his Jedi Order independent of the government. Perhaps that's what causes the split: Some feel that they should be under the authority of the GA, while Luke and the rest feel that they serve the Force first and therefore don't agree to be controlled by the government. But in that case, don't you think that Daala would love to have her own personal group of Force users who are dedicated not to following the will of the Force, but to the will of Daala? While Daala hates Luke and the Jedi, I would think she would really like to have her own Force users to control. That suggests to me that things could go in an interesting direction; the Empire having Force-sensitives, and so opposed by the ex-Imperial who currently leads the GFFA?!?!? Again, IF those Force sensitives are already part of the Empire from the Outbound Flight project, that would be okay and might be quite interesting. BUT, if they have split from Luke's Order because of a disagreement with him, then I wouldn't like it at all. but Luke deliberately sets up another order, with a slightly different ethos, because he sees the need for them; and the 'split' is after his death. I just hope that we don't see Luke's death too soon. I agree that the next generation, especially those who are left, could never carry the post-RotJ books on their own. However, I'm not sure Del Rey or Sue Rostoni will accept that. From some of the decisions they've made, they seem to be in their own little world about what works and what doesn't. NewStaryknight : Yes, but we do get glimpses of the Luke we know and love and what he's thinking and feeling transparently from Jaina's perspective on a few occasions in Invincible. In a few, yes, but only a very few. I want to see a book where we get as much from Luke's perspective as we got from Jaina's in Invincible. In fact, as I've said before, I'd really love a book that was told in first person present from Luke's POV like I, Jedi was done from Corran Horn's point of view.
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 7/6 8:31pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3) - Date Edited: 7/6 8:32pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	I think that people should remember that there is no evidence of a large number of IKs in Legacy. We have seen less than ten and the organization might not be much larger than that. When it was founded, it might have been smaller still, consisting of just a few (misguided) individuals. So, even if the IKs get founded during Luke's lifetime, there is no reason for a schism or a great split to happen in the Jedi Order, even if few Jedi do become IKs. Luke's Order does consists at least of several hundred Jedi in 40 ABY, so losing few to the Fel Empire wouldn't really hurt the Jedi anymore than losing Tenel Ka and Danni Quee in TSW did. Especially as the poor persons wouldn't really want to be Jedi if they decide to become IKs and serve the Empire. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!!
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 7/6 8:47pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Rouge77 : I think that people should remember that there is no evidence of a large number of IKs in Legacy. That's a good point, R. But just because we haven't seen a lot of IKs doesn't mean that they don't exist, does it? There don't seem to be very many Jedi in Legacy either so far, but I understand that it's been said that they exist, but are scattered and in hiding. Luke's Order does consists at least of several hundred Jedi in 40 ABY, so losing few to the Fel Empire wouldn't really hurt the Jedi anymore than losing Tenel Ka and Danni Quee in TSW did. I guess that's true. It's just the principle of the thing though. It would grate to think that some Jedi would leave Luke's Jedi Order to serve a government leader. As I said, initially, it might even have been Daala as the head of the Galactic Alliance whom they served. But maybe they found that she couldn't stabilize the galaxy, so they jumped to the Empire as the best hope for a peaceful, stable galaxy?
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AdmiralNick22 Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 7/6 8:52pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Rouge77 posted: I think that people should remember that there is no evidence of a large number of IKs in Legacy. We have seen less than ten and the organization might not be much larger than that. When it was founded, it might have been smaller still, consisting of just a few (misguided) individuals. So, even if the IKs get founded during Luke's lifetime, there is no reason for a schism or a great split to happen in the Jedi Order, even if few Jedi do become IKs. Luke's Order does consists at least of several hundred Jedi in 40 ABY, so losing few to the Fel Empire wouldn't really hurt the Jedi anymore than losing Tenel Ka and Danni Quee in TSW did. Especially as the poor persons wouldn't really want to be Jedi if they decide to become IKs and serve the Empire. Don't forget that Randy Stradley said over on the Dark Horse boards that the Imperial Knights may be no more than a dozen. ChildofWinds, I think you may be getting worried over nothing. First off, if the IK is limited to a dozen members, that is hardly a threat to Luke's order of Jedi Knights that by the end of LOTF had at least 12 masters and 100 Knights. Not to mention the hundreds of apprentices on Ossus. Furthermore, I would hold judgement on Fate of the Jedi until we actually know what it is about. For all you know, it may be set in a different era. My advice is to remain positive. Trust me, it is not easy, but always worth it. I remember thinking that the GA was dead and democracy dead when I first heard about Legacy. Yet, I patiently waited and my fears were proved wrong. The GA was still around, even if in a reduced state. They even got their own three issue arc! For all you know the Jedi are about to make a big appearance in Legacy. As for Luke's legacy, his Force Ghost is there to guide the NJO and Cade in 137 ABY. --Adm. Nick -----signature----- Fleet Junkie Founding Father Official Greatest Admiral Ackbar Fan "A peaceful Galactic Alliance is the strongest pillar of a peaceful galaxy." - Luke Skywalker "I will surrender, Admiral, when I can no longer fight!" - Admiral Gar Stazi Antilles/Celchu 08
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NewStaryknight Registered: Dec '07	Date Posted: 7/6 11:58pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	ChildOfWinds posted: NewStaryknight : Yes, but we do get glimpses of the Luke we know and love and what he's thinking and feeling transparently from Jaina's perspective on a few occasions in Invincible. In a few, yes, but only a very few. I want to see a book where we get as much from Luke's perspective as we got from Jaina's in Invincible. In fact, as I've said before, I'd really love a book that was told in first person present from Luke's POV like I, Jedi was done from Corran Horn's point of view. In all fairness, we really didn't get to see the POV from anybody in Invincible save for Jaina, Cadeus, and a little bit of Ben's.
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Master-Chief-Kenobi Registered: Jun '07	Date Posted: 7/7 3:38am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	What if the Imperiel Knights were founded by Luke as a way of keeping tabs on the Moffs & to keep them in line & the Fel's on the throne? We do know from Legacy #25 that Jedi were not uncommon in the halls of Bastion before the Sith-imperiel War so the split between IK & jedi could have happened during Kol & Cade's time.
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marmkid Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 7/7 8:13am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	ChildOfWinds posted: I'm not sure that we know enough about the council to say that. Certainly in Invincible the reader gets the impression that the Council has been meeting to discuss the crisis with Jacen. There were other books in which the Council was present and made recommendations too. In fact, if I remember correctly, in one of the LotF books the Jedi Council members sort of chastised Luke about something. Was it about Ben being in the GAG? So I don't think being a council member is just an honorary title. I would really like to know more about the way in which the Jedi Council works in the LotF era. We really don't get much direct information about exactly what the Council does or how it does it. I agree with you that one of Luke's major roles should be that of leading the Jedi Council, but I think that may be one of the things Luke DOES do. Maybe we just don't get to read about it. Maybe the authors think that would be too boring and go for blowing things up and space and lightsaber battles instead? I know that I enjoyed reading about Luke pairing up the Jedi and sending them on missions in the Dark Tide duology. I thought Luke did a great job of matching the missions with the Jedi and with making up some teams that at first glance seemed odd, but which actually worked perfectly. you are right, we just didnt see any council meetings i really wish they would have shown at least some of the meeting where they were discussing Jaina and her going after Caedus i also really enjoyed that in the Dark Tide duology and it really did show the difference between jedi knight's personal skills, and the thought that should be put into who goes on what mission not just, oh so and so is back from a trip, and there is a new mission on the list, so lets throw him there that would also show Luke in a manner similar to Invincible where he was seeing into the future a lot and that would also help him send certain people on certain missions It shows his power in a new different way, but no less powerful. and gives a reason for new jedi knights to go on missions rather than Luke going on them i feel the council needs to be shown somewhere, to show that the jedi are a cohesive unit, and that there are other jedi out there besides Luke when Luke and Saba are on missions all the time, it gives the impression that they are not sitting in on the council
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J_K_DART Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 7/7 12:21pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Personally, I would rather like it if Luke were the founder of the Imperial Knights. It would seem nicely ironic; I doubt it'll happen, though, tbt. -----signature----- "Victory without risk is like a pizza without pepperoni." "I like my pizzas without pepperoni." "Sir master of the long post" - Excellence
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Lord_Riven Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 7/7 5:29pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	J_K_DART posted: Personally, I would rather like it if Luke were the founder of the Imperial Knights. It would seem nicely ironic; I doubt it'll happen, though, tbt. Nah, I think it will be Jaina or perhaps someone from the Empire of the Hand (perhaps the girl from Survivor's Quest) -----signature----- Legacy AU fic: Family Ties. Follow the link in the next line. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3751906/1/Star_Wars_Legacy_Family_Ties Casiah - Cade Skywalker x Marasiah Fel 'shipper (#1) Canderous >>> Boba Fett
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 7/7 5:35pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Lord_Riven posted: J_K_DART posted: Personally, I would rather like it if Luke were the founder of the Imperial Knights. It would seem nicely ironic; I doubt it'll happen, though, tbt. Nah, I think it will be Jaina or perhaps someone from the Empire of the Hand (perhaps the girl from Survivor's Quest) I hope, somehow, it's not Jaina because it would be a poor end for the best Jedi of Luke's Order. The Jacen Slayer! -----signature----- Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
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