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Author	Topic: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
DarthIktomi Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 7/2 6:58pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Well, Ben has to have kids. Or Luke has to remarry, Force forbid.
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 7/2 8:31pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	DarthIktomi : Any time in the next, what, 90 years? The problem is that Del Rey seems to be in a huge hurry to match up to the Legacy comics era for some reason, and we know that Luke is a Force ghost then. So I fear that they may very well be using this nine book hard cover series to kill Luke off. And Abyss seems like it just might be that book. We already know from the blurb that Ben will be seeing Mara in Abyss. Why just Ben? Why not Luke as well. Plus, the blurb says that only one Master, Dark or Light will make it out alive. The "Luke is male and therefore like Vader" thing began in ROTJ actually. But Luke proved that he wasn't like Vader by making different choices. Leia remembered her mother, but only Luke and Vader could recognize each other as father and child, not Leia and Vader. Luke didn't recognize Vader. Vader TOLD him in TESB, much to Luke's horror. And wasn't the reason Vader knew because he was investigated to find out who it was that was so powerful in the Force and had taken down the Death Star? I think I heard this was covered in a comic book. Leia's testing, IMO, was Alderaan's destruction. Not really, because she had no idea that she had Force powers at that time and she had no idea how to use them, or she may have done something not so Lightside. As it was, she figured she was pretty helpless, in cuffs and with Vader and Tarkin on an Imperial weapon of mass destruction. She was a "damsel in distress" at that point, though once freed from her prison cell, she was a take-charge woman. Luke lost his guardians and the only life he had ever known too and didn't fall apart either. So I don't think Alderaan could be called Leia's testing. In a very real way, Luke is a symbol (and direct result) of his parents' love. And it shows how the OJO was dogmatic, in thinking love was evil. And it was the love of a father for his son and the son for his father that brought down an Empire. Zardi : Why can't a granddaughter tinker with power converters, hmm? That would be fine with me too, Z. I always wanted Luke to have a daughter as well as a son. I think she would have had Luke wrapped around her little finger. I even had a couple of names I would have liked for the daughter, either Hannah after Han, or Beru, after the woman who served as Luke's mother. I really don't understand why the authors weren't willing to give Luke and Mara another child, especially because of Mother Rell's prophecy and because Luke and Mara saw "children" in their shared vision. For some reason I'm remembering Ben thinking this when they first meet the Baran Do Sages. Yes, this involved the inspectors when they first got there. They had to go through the normal check through and I think Ben was thinking to himself something about "This is LUKE SKYWALKER, why are they going through all this nonsense" or something like that. He felt that his father should be afforded the luxury of not having to suffer through beauracracy. FireJade : But -- her interest in him? Ta'a Chume didn't really have an interest in Luke. In fact, she wanted him dead. She knew that Luke was interested in Jedi history and information, so she lied to Luke and told him that about 50 Jedi had set up an Academy in the Hapes Cluster, but that they had been hunted down by Vader. She told Luke that they probably left a lot of Jedi records. Luke was very excited about this news, but he was smart too. Luke asked her to lift her veil so he could see her face, and this allowed him to see into her eyes and to read her true animosity towards him and her nasty plans to do away with him. See, I get that there was some attraction between Luke and Gaeriel, but it never struck me as any sort of serious relationship. No, there wasn't, but I think Luke would have been open to building a relationship with Gaeriel. Unfortunately, Jedi were against her religion somehow and she felt that Bakura needed her. At the end of the book, Gaeriel told Luke that she wanted to be his ally, but "From a distance." This was Luke's reaction: He pushed back a quiet desolation that threatened to send him over another emotional brink. He mustn't think of spending forever alone. "from a distance," he agreed, hesitantly touching her face. "But just once, from here." She leaned into his arms. He kissed her, letting the moment flood his perception, petal-warm lips and the deep sweet warmth of her life presence. Then Luke walked Gaeriel off the ship and that was it. At the same time, there's a lot more to being Grand Master than PR. the Grand Master is also in charge of the direction of the Jedi Order, etc., and Leia wouldn't be very good at that. She's never struck me as being very Jedi-like. More than anything, I don't think Leia should take over Luke's job as Grand Master because I don't think she has devoted herself to the Jedi Order as Luke and other Jedi Masters have. The Jedi Order and being a Jedi never seemed to be a priority for her. So I think it would be disappointing to have someone who isn't that heavily invested in the Order take over just because she happens to be Luke's sister. I actually originally interpreted the text to mean that they hadn't had sex because of that, I still choose to believe that. As I said, I heard that it was written ambiguously on purpose so people could decide for themselves what happened. And since most people don't have personal access to KMac and his intentions, I feel it can be interpreted in any way one wishes, just as we interpret most everything we read in our own way. Not sure, but I think Omen mentioned this, and I remember thinking the wording was careful and interesting. Yes. I liked the way it was worded. Daala : That leads to my puzzled expression when Luke apparently looked like Palpatine when he used too much Force that time. Huh? Was it dark side usage? What am I missing? Wasn't Luke purposely fueling the Force with anger and fear for Ben at the time so he could have enough Force power to cloak the ship? (I don't know why he didn't just use his Fallanassi skills instead.) During the DN trilogy, the Jedi were doing some pretty questionable things, including Luke. However, Luke came to realize pretty quickly that what they were doing was wrong and stopped. I'm still not sure how Luke and the Jedi changed their philosophy so much from TUF to TJK. I don't know if Denning misinterpreted the ending of TUF or if he just wanted to completely change things to fit his plot. At any rate, since Luke normally immerses himself in the Light, maybe that's why he remains fairly youthful-looking.
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DarthIktomi Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 7/3 12:10am Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	The problem is that Del Rey seems to be in a huge hurry to match up to the Legacy comics era for some reason, and we know that Luke is a Force ghost then. So I fear that they may very well be using this nine book hard cover series to kill Luke off. And Abyss seems like it just might be that book. We already know from the blurb that Ben will be seeing Mara in Abyss. Why just Ben? Why not Luke as well. Plus, the blurb says that only one Master, Dark or Light will make it out alive. I don't know. It was long enough for Jaina and Jag. As for Ben, Ben's not a Master, and . As Linkara said, Do you think he might die? (Cue dramatic music.) Oh, of course he's gonna live. The man is made of four-leaf clovers, rabbits' feet and horseshoes. And it was the love of a father for his son and the son for his father that brought down an Empire. Exactly. That would be fine with me too, Z. I always wanted Luke to have a daughter as well as a son. I think she would have had Luke wrapped around her little finger. I even had a couple of names I would have liked for the daughter, either Hannah after Han, or Beru, after the woman who served as Luke's mother. I really don't understand why the authors weren't willing to give Luke and Mara another child, especially because of Mother Rell's prophecy and because Luke and Mara saw "children" in their shared vision. Hannah? So she's a Joiner? Ben's named after an alias. Wasn't Luke purposely fueling the Force with anger and fear for Ben at the time so he could have enough Force power to cloak the ship? (I don't know why he didn't just use his Fallanassi skills instead.) During the DN trilogy, the Jedi were doing some pretty questionable things, including Luke. However, Luke came to realize pretty quickly that what they were doing was wrong and stopped. I'm still not sure how Luke and the Jedi changed their philosophy so much from TUF to TJK. I don't know if Denning misinterpreted the ending of TUF or if he just wanted to completely change things to fit his plot. Denning was trying to put Luke closer to the dark side. That's why we have that weird total misunderstanding of Vergere's ideas. It doesn't make any sense. And I thought the prequels were the concentration of narm. (I haaaaate youuuuuu! I wish I could just wish away my feelings. Are you an angel? Hell, we could just call it Anakinism.)
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 7/3 6:37pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	DarthIktomi : Denning was trying to put Luke closer to the dark side. Yes, it did seem that Denning was trying to put Luke closer to the dark side in The Joiner King. I just don't understand why. Denning always seems to write a Luke that is cold and somewhat darkish. That's one of the reasons that I was disappointed when I heard that Denning would be one of the authors who would be penning Fate of the Jedi. I really don't like his take on Luke at all, and I don't like the way he often leaves too many questions and unfinished plot threads at the end of a book or series. I like more closure. That's why we have that weird total misunderstanding of Vergere's ideas. It doesn't make any sense. No, it really doesn't. There is a huge disconnect between The Unifying Force and The Joiner King. There is a completely different Luke; a completely different Jacen; and a completely different Jedi Order.
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DarthIktomi Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 7/3 8:01pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Yes, it did seem that Denning was trying to put Luke closer to the dark side in The Joiner King. I just don't understand why. Denning always seems to write a Luke that is cold and somewhat darkish. That's one of the reasons that I was disappointed when I heard that Denning would be one of the authors who would be penning Fate of the Jedi. I really don't like his take on Luke at all, and I don't like the way he often leaves too many questions and unfinished plot threads at the end of a book or series. I like more closure. I think the idea was to make him more like Palpatine until it's eventually averted near the end. The art shows him wearing a dark robe and terribly aged, not to mention the whole Grand Master position. And torturing the Joiners. The lightning clinches it, since Luke was (of course) tortured by lightning. Basically, a "last temptation". I'm getting sick of this: Dark Empire offered him the Empire, and the Black Fleet Crisis offered him normalcy. What else is there? The whole book was very narm. No, it really doesn't. There is a huge disconnect between The Unifying Force and The Joiner King. There is a completely different Luke; a completely different Jacen; and a completely different Jedi Order. It shows the failure of sharing a universe, honestly. Vergere was originally supposed to be the voice of the Old Order. See her reaction to Ben. Yes, she did feel intent was important with the Force, and in a way she's right. You can use lightning to restart a heart. But that's missing the symbolism, so it's all one giant narm. All of this was replaced by the Sith heresy that whatever you do with the Force, it'll have good results somewhere. Which, ironically, is sorta true: The Jedi can have families now, and it's all thanks to Darth Sidious.
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FireJade Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 7/4 11:02am Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	DarthIktomi posted: The art shows him wearing a dark robe and terribly aged, not to mention the whole Grand Master position. And torturing the Joiners. The lightning clinches it, since Luke was (of course) tortured by lightning. Terribly aged? Really? In any case, Luke never even uses Force lightning in the DN books, so I think I completely missed the "temptation" part. If anything, his "we must choose" was an early aversion of Jacen's philosophy in DN and LotF. -----signature----- Luke: Still, I think I make a pretty good Luke Skywalker. Mara: Of course you do. Luke: So before you began impersonating Mara, what was your real hair color? Mara: Farmboy, you're asking for a beating... --- LotF: Betrayal by Aaron Allston (2006), p. 228
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Darth-Ghost Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 7/4 11:10am Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	ChildOfWinds posted: That's why we have that weird total misunderstanding of Vergere's ideas. It doesn't make any sense. No, it really doesn't. There is a huge disconnect between The Unifying Force and The Joiner King. There is a completely different Luke; a completely different Jacen; and a completely different Jedi Order. It all comes from the overblown backlash against Vergere inTRAITOR. If they had shown how they changed, or set it up a little better at the end of the NJO, it would have worked. Instead they listened to us too much, when some people overreacted to an out-of-context misinterpretation of Vergere saying "There is no dark side." If people had actually read the book and thought about it, then I doubt that DN and LOTF (or even FOTJ having to retrace Jacen's journey, for that matter) would have turned out the way they did, if created at all. On the good side, it did spark a lot of good discussion. Honestly, all EU since then has been based off of it (along with the Myrkr mission in SBS) or taken it into consideration. But... If the authors and publishers wanted to explore the misinterpretation of Vergere's teachings (that became widespread and very vocal here on the Internet), then they should have logically shown how the Jedi got where they were at TUF to that point. They should NOT have jumped into it, only for Luke and the Jedi to reverse it (and create another series on what happened ater Jacen refuses to reverse it).
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 7/4 9:50pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	DarthIktomi : I think the idea was to make him more like Palpatine until it's eventually averted near the end. I don't think the intention was to make Luke like Palpatine. But the intention did seem to be to make it look like Luke AND the whole Jedi Order were on the wrong path. I just don't understand how they got there. The Jedi weren't doing terrible things during the NJO, even after Vergere came into the picture. The Jedi still believed in the Dark Side at the end of TUF. About the only new thing seemed to be that Luke had figured out that experiencing dark emotions didn't automatically mean that a Jedi was going to turn into a Sith or a darksider. All human beings are going to experience emotions, including dark ones sometimes. It's part of being human and imperfect. But as Luke said, as long as a person doesn't act on those emotions or desire to dominate others, he/she isn't on the dark side. Luke was only on this wrong path in The Joiner King. He had already decided by the end of that novel, I think, that what he and the other Jedi were doing wasn't right. Even though it looked like Luke was using Force lightning on the cover of The Swarm War, I don't believe that Luke used any lightning at all in the DN trilogy. You can't tell a book by the cover, you know. As for the "Grand Master" thing, Luke never wanted to be Grand Master. The Jedi all seemed to be arguing with one another and divided, so Luke tried to get them to unite...against him...by appointing himself Grand Master. He really didn't intend to be Grand Master, but to Luke's chagrin, the other Jedi thought it was a great idea, so he was stuck with the position. I do agree that it was very chilling to see Luke allow Cilghal (of all people!) to torture the Joiners, and I didn't like him purposely using his anger to fuel his Force powers to hide the Jade Shadow. (That's when he temporarily aged.) Luke should have just used a Fallanassi illusion instead. Darth-Ghost : It all comes from the overblown backlash against Vergere in TRAITOR. If they had shown how they changed, or set it up a little better at the end of the NJO, it would have worked. I'm not sure I understand what you mean, DG. Can you please clarify? I said that there is a huge disconnect between The Unifying Force and The Joiner King, and that we see a completely different Luke, Jacen, and Jedi Order. Are you saying that it would have worked if the author would have shown how Luke and the Jedi had changed at the end of TUF that it would have worked? I guess I got the impression a the end of TUF that they hadn't changed all that much, and whatever small changes they had made seemed to be positive instead of negative. Who would have expected the healer, Cilghal, to torture people? Or compassionate Luke to allow her to do it??? It didn't make any sense. I didn't like what we got in TJK at all. The Jedi became the PROBLEMS instead of the solution to problems, and that wasn't at all hinted at in TUF. If people had actually read the book and thought about it, then I doubt that DN and LOTF (or even FOTJ having to retrace Jacen's journey, for that matter) would have turned out the way they did, How would you see them changed? If the authors and publishers wanted to explore the misinterpretation of Vergere's teachings then they should have logically shown how the Jedi got where they were at TUF to that point. But Luke rejected most of Vergere's teachings completely so why would there be any "misinterpretation" of them if he wasn't planning to have the Jedi follow her philosophy anyway? They should NOT have jumped into it, only for Luke and the Jedi to reverse it (and create another series on what happened ater Jacen refuses to reverse it). I certainly agree about that. I don't think they should have jumped into it at all. In fact, I thought they DIDN'T from what Luke was saying at the end of TUF.
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DarthIktomi Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 7/5 8:17am Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	FireJade posted: DarthIktomi posted: The art shows him wearing a dark robe and terribly aged, not to mention the whole Grand Master position. And torturing the Joiners. The lightning clinches it, since Luke was (of course) tortured by lightning. Terribly aged? Really? In any case, Luke never even uses Force lightning in the DN books, so I think I completely missed the "temptation" part. If anything, his "we must choose" was an early aversion of Jacen's philosophy in DN and LotF. Well, you're right it was in TUF. Really, the Del Rey books start to run together for me. All I know is, Del Rey wants to torture the characters.
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DarthIktomi Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 7/5 9:23am Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	As I've said before, COW, the Grand Master thing was like a Monty Python sketch. I don't know which one. Probably Life of Brian. But Denning especially was going for more darkside. Del Rey seems to go there all the time. Luke used to work to redeem darksiders; Jacen in name only just…died. Can I start calling you Cowoc after you suggested Hannah and I got a weird Killik image in my head?
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FireJade Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 7/5 10:45am Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	ChildOfWinds posted: I do agree that it was very chilling to see Luke allow Cilghal (of all people!) to torture the Joiners, and I didn't like him purposely using his anger to fuel his Force powers to hide the Jade Shadow. (That's when he temporarily aged.) Luke should have just used a Fallanassi illusion instead. Didn't he use a Fallanassi illusion, but also draw on his anger to get enough power? -----signature----- Luke: Still, I think I make a pretty good Luke Skywalker. Mara: Of course you do. Luke: So before you began impersonating Mara, what was your real hair color? Mara: Farmboy, you're asking for a beating... --- LotF: Betrayal by Aaron Allston (2006), p. 228
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 7/5 12:17pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Well? Isn't anyone going to mention Luke's appearance in Invasion #1? -----signature----- Excellence: "You are the forum's Quick Ben." SW EU fans: John Ostrander needs your help! http://www.comix4sight.com
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FireJade Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 7/5 12:40pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	I liked it. But it (his appearance) was too short -- granted, everything seemed a bit rushed. I know the comic is more about Finn than about Luke, but I hope we'll see pictures of badass Luke actually fighting the Vong later on. -----signature----- Luke: Still, I think I make a pretty good Luke Skywalker. Mara: Of course you do. Luke: So before you began impersonating Mara, what was your real hair color? Mara: Farmboy, you're asking for a beating... --- LotF: Betrayal by Aaron Allston (2006), p. 228
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 7/5 12:52pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	FireJade posted: I liked it. But it (his appearance) was too short -- granted, everything seemed a bit rushed. I know the comic is more about Finn than about Luke, but I hope we'll see pictures of badass Luke actually fighting the Vong later on. Heh, yeah but I quite liked Luke's low-key appearance in this issue - felt accurate in character terms. -----signature----- Excellence: "You are the forum's Quick Ben." SW EU fans: John Ostrander needs your help! http://www.comix4sight.com
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FireJade Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 7/5 1:03pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Oh, definitely. Not every scene with Luke needs to be filled with Vong-slaying drama. I guess part of the letdown was that the cover gave us more Luke vs. Vong action than any panel in the comic. Even one panel of fighting would have been enough. That said, I don't think it was done badly... It was more something I was expecting to see and didn't than something I desperately wanted for Invasion #1 specifically. -----signature----- Luke: Still, I think I make a pretty good Luke Skywalker. Mara: Of course you do. Luke: So before you began impersonating Mara, what was your real hair color? Mara: Farmboy, you're asking for a beating... --- LotF: Betrayal by Aaron Allston (2006), p. 228
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