Jedi Council Forums - SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

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Author	Topic: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
J_K_DART Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 4/16/08 10:27pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	MS: That's war, you deploy the resources you have available to the missions they're suited for. Which mission was more important? Defending Coruscant or defeating the Voxyn? That's not the choice. When the kids went out, the Battle of Coruscant hadn't even been hinted at; even the Jedi hadn't 'clicked' it was on. So Luke never had to choose between these two variables. CoW: I really like that idea, Dart. But didn't Luke already use the skill in Inferno? That means that if Ben taught Luke the trick, he taught him between Sacrifice and Inferno. That's precisely my point, CoW. Between Sacrifice and Inferno, Luke is supposed to be withdrawn in his grief, certainly not up to learning new Force-tricks from his son. Remember, in Inferno the two haven't spent much time together at all, right up to the moment when Luke rescues Ben from Jacen. At the time Luke was using this Force-trick, he'd not spent the time with Ben to learn it! Then we get Ben's line in Revelation that he's taught it to Luke. In Revelation, not in Inferno, admittedly less than a month later! The implication is, it seems to me, that Luke was hiding in the Force with a skill Jacen doesn't have even before he'd learnt the trick from Ben; i.e. he'd already mastered it. I do very much want to see Luke face and defeat Jacen in Invincible. As do I. Charles: Luke Skywalker was never a moral paragon On this, we do disagree. It's why I like the Silver Age Superman and not the Messianistic one. And my recognition of Luke as hero figure is why I like the Messianic imagery in JAT, in complete contrast to the views you're presenting, Charles! Oh, incidentally, when you observe that Luke could have ended the war at any point by killing Shimrra, I would point out: a) it wasn't until later on in the series that the Jedi even knew Shimrra existed, b) as early as Destiny's Way the Jedi were trying to get him (Jaina leads a space-battle iirc), and c) he was kind of... well-protected up until the Battle of Coruscant, and even during that really I guess - just not, by then, well-protected enough! CoW: The Jedi Children are the Jedi Master's responsibility. Agreed. DarthGeist: You guys have to remember also, Anakin Solo wasn't your average 15 year old kid. And neither were his brother and sister. Personally I never would have let them do the stuff they did but they weren't just Jedi, they're pretty much recognized as the A-Team of the Order. Well, Anakin was, Jacen less so early on remember. But an interesting point. -----signature----- "Victory without risk is like a pizza without pepperoni." "I like my pizzas without pepperoni." "Sir master of the long post" - Excellence
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masterskywalker Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 4/16/08 11:36pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	I love it when a plan comes together. -----signature----- Peace to corrupt, no less than war to waste.
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 4/17/08 2:11am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	But yes, for me. I think there's a difference between a role model, a good person, a hero, and a righetous man. Vs. A Moral Paragon. Luke Skywalker is a character, first and foremost. A hero. He does not exist to embody what is best in Man. He exists to be a man who does what is right. Just my .02
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DeJade_Vu Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 4/17/08 4:09am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	I posted in the EU Community thread and now I'm here. I support this thread wholeheartedly! -----signature----- I'm a PBS mind in an MTV world. ~Eschew Obfuscation~ Pope Benedict XVI Owns You I want it--I want my phonecall. --the Joker Mara Jade Forever
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DurronFan Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 4/17/08 6:51am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	COW "ACTUAlLY, the more power a person usually has (whether it be with the Force or other means), the more susceptible he or she is to be corrupted by it. I'm not sure I agree with that." Well you do know the saying that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Now usually this is utilized solely in terms of politics and power with wih government/state but I believe it can too be applied with the Force. Hence the more power one has, the more they have to fight against being corrupted by it. This is purely a personal belief of mine of course. I believe that the dark side tries harder to influence powerful Force users like Luke than ones with less power. Which, if you think about it and you of all people should appreciate this, only more greatly shows us Luke's toughness as he has only 2 or 3 times fallen (and even those are very disputable cases). " I think Luke should be a fairly good leader. He was a legendary leader of Rogue Squadron, after all. He was a General in the Rebellion too. " Now I can talk about this based on my own experience in the military. Being in the military and having a leadership position DOES NOT make you automatically a good leader. It's rather incredulous that Luke would be promoted Commander for just blowing up the Death Star. You just DO NOT give an officer's rank (especially to an under 20 year old) for achievement in flying, even if it saved the galaxy. You give him a medal, like we see in episode 4, but that's all. If you want any officer's rank, even the lowliest Lietenant's, you have to go through at least some leadership training and show at least some level of natural leadership skills. You have to be capable enough to lead a platoon (30 to 50 people) and be responsible for them. Did Luke have to go through ANYTHING like that? Good god no. My point is that Luke became a General NOT because of being a great leader but because he was an out-of-this world pilot. Ability in the cockpit, no matter how spectacular, does not make you a leader. And for the Rebellion to promote Luke to General (before the age of 25?!?!?!), it's like saying that they consider Luke capable enough to lead a brigade (which is only 1000-5000 troops). Now I've always accepted this as part of Star Wars, space soap opera that doesn't make the slightest bit of sense but is regardless of that very entertaining. ", since VP, Luke has been Clark Kent for about 90 percent of the time" Well great! Then Del Rey is only 10% off from where you want Luke to be! You sometimes make it sound like they're portraying Luke as the antonym of what he should be. "And the problem is....? " That you're more concerned with him being a cool superhero that with him being real. "Yes. For example, Luke has known since training with Yoda that using anger with the Force is a bad thing." How can you honestly say that he "knew" as a fact, as a given truth that anger in all cases regardless of the situation is wrong. See Luke never received full training, he had to learn most of the stuff himself. He had a very weak foundation from which to work from. So when a former Jedi of the Old Republic, Vergere, hints to him of other ideas, of course he's going to consider them. "Yet, in DN, Luke is again learning that using anger with the Force is a bad thing" And that's just part of the process. Since he's had to learn most of the stuff himself, he inevitably going to learn to wrong thing once in a while, EVEN AS A JEDI MASTER. -----signature----- Luke Skywalker: I'm not afraid! Yoda: Good... You will be. You will be.
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NewStaryknight Registered: Dec '07	Date Posted: 4/17/08 10:24am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	I still think the whole doubting himself and giving in to his anger once is pretty normal for Luke. Thats just who he is and its going to happen just as its going to happen to any of the other characters. The only real thing I think Luke did in this whole series that he really should have known was wrong was his continuing support for the GA. Even before Jacen took over the GA was doing very big morally questionable things and Luke should have took a stand to it, because thats what Jedi are supposed to do, look at whose doing evil deeds to destroy the peace and stability of the galaxy and try to put a stop to it. Its not right that Luke only rebels when an open Sith hopeful gets put into power, because Sith aren't the only ones who ruin a government.
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 4/17/08 10:59am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	DF, The full version of Acton's maxim is quite interesting: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." While we can indeed say there is always this danger, the use of 'tends' also allows for resistance to and avoidance of corruption through such methods as reflection and contemplation of actions. I wouldn't see Luke as being a character who has ever sought absolute power for himself, or even for a cause. Even in Dark Empire he did not have absolute power, there remained the Emperor. In contrast Jacen has certainly been seeking it and it's pretty clear where its got him. Stary, Was going to reply but you've given me an idea for a thread. JB -----signature----- Excellence: "You are the forum's Quick Ben." SW EU fans: John Ostrander needs your help! http://www.comix4sight.com
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BobaMatt Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 4/17/08 11:14am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	NewStaryknight posted: I still think the whole doubting himself and giving in to his anger once is pretty normal for Luke. Thats just who he is and its going to happen just as its going to happen to any of the other characters. The only real thing I think Luke did in this whole series that he really should have known was wrong was his continuing support for the GA. Even before Jacen took over the GA was doing very big morally questionable things and Luke should have took a stand to it, because thats what Jedi are supposed to do, look at whose doing evil deeds to destroy the peace and stability of the galaxy and try to put a stop to it. Its not right that Luke only rebels when an open Sith hopeful gets put into power, because Sith aren't the only ones who ruin a government. I imagine most would try to find another option before deciding to go against 25,000 years of tradition and sworn fealty. -----signature----- DUNE - Chronicles of the Imperium RP http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_wars_role_playing/b10755/29433346/p1/?11 As Father and Son (An AU RP) http://boards.theforce.net/role_playing_forum/b10328/28357048/p1/?10 Emperor Fel's badassery knows no bounds.
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J_K_DART Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 4/17/08 11:52am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3) - Date Edited: 4/17/08 12:03pm (1 edits total) Edited By: J_K_DART
	Luke himself said: "The more powerful you become, the more you are tempted." Incidentally, before we can assess Luke's leadership skills I do rather think we need to have read Stover's book - it's the era, after all... -----signature----- "Victory without risk is like a pizza without pepperoni." "I like my pizzas without pepperoni." "Sir master of the long post" - Excellence
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DurronFan Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 4/17/08 12:45pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	JB, people can be corrupted by power even if they do not seek it. Jacen, for one, did not start out by seeking power for himself. As long as power exists and it is attainable, it has the potential to warp any individual. -----signature----- Luke Skywalker: I'm not afraid! Yoda: Good... You will be. You will be.
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 4/17/08 1:05pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Oh, agreed DF, it's just the subtleties of Acton's position often get missed. -----signature----- Excellence: "You are the forum's Quick Ben." SW EU fans: John Ostrander needs your help! http://www.comix4sight.com
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Emperor_Time Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 4/17/08 2:45pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	If Luke dies in Invincible does the title of this thread stay the same or not? -----signature----- Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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J_K_DART Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 4/17/08 4:01pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Oh yes - it'd then become a campaign to bring him back, I reckon... But I don't think he will. -----signature----- "Victory without risk is like a pizza without pepperoni." "I like my pizzas without pepperoni." "Sir master of the long post" - Excellence
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NewStaryknight Registered: Dec '07	Date Posted: 4/17/08 4:06pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Jedi Ben posted: Stary, Was going to reply but you've given me an idea for a thread. JB I did? Hooray, I'm useful!! Whats it called?
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Emperor_Time Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 4/17/08 4:14pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	J_K_DART posted: Oh yes - it'd then become a campaign to bring him back, I reckon... But I don't think he will. Makes sense to me. -----signature----- Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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