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Author	Topic: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
xx_Anakin_xx Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 11/7 10:28am Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3) - Date Edited: 11/7 10:30am (1 edits total) Edited By: xx_Anakin_xx
	While I think Luke has fought enough battles to be able to withstand anything thrown at him by now, I think that keeping him alive is best. So you do have to have some real threat lurking for him and its okay if that is the dark side. Technically it is fine for that to be the grand threat to Skywalkers for all time. But what I think is that Luke (and others down the line from Anakin Skywalker) should approach the threat aggressively rather than passively. That doesn't mean embrace it on some terms in the manner of Vader or Caedus or even DE Luke. I think one issue may be that various authors are still toying with the idea of whether or not the darkness is inherent in the Skywalkers or not, with some going more with the idea that it is and others more or less rejecting that idea. Since I reject the idea myself, aggressively facing the dark side to me would be simply strengthening one's self against it. Everytime I read one of the Skywalker/Solo descendants refer to Vader as if the darkness has somehow been passed on, I just think of them as cowardly and attempting to pass off the responsibility of strengthening their own autonomy and resolve. In sum, it is fine to me for Luke to worry about it as he always has, but I would rather see him face it down every time and prevail. LOTF took a big step backward in that regard. FOTJ seems to be headed in a better direction, but depending on who is writing Luke, you still might get some of that shrinking and cowering before the dark side thrown in which is lame to me. Way back in the Thrawn era of books, Luke dealt with this and seemed to be on the right road, but now it is like 10 steps backward for every step forward in that regard. It is true that Luke is facing some heavy things, like losing Mara, having Ben manipulated toward darkness and losing Jedi (including family). But when you compare that to Leia's losses of both her sons, one to darkness itself, plus losing other Jedi (including family) - and not even troubled by any real moment of darkness at all, it is rather lame. It is true that Leia doesn't do as much as Luke - but on the other hand, she does quite a bit with Han, using her Force powers randomly and with her husband making some questionable decisions, but still nothing like any taint or even a spector of the dark side ever enters the picture for her. And Jaina should be a dark lady absolutely, because she doesn't even bother with any of the questions and introspetion Luke does much of the time - she just acts and then afterward is like 'whoops' or 'oh well'. She too escapes the noose of the dark side - even when she was supposedly going through a dark time, she was barely any different than usual (dark journey) except using a little Force lightening. So in a way the authors do seem to place a more heavy onus on Luke in this regard, even if they try to play it off by having Leia and Jaina (and to a lesser degree Ben, but he's young yet) deal with the question of darkness in their head - but unlike Luke, it rarely touches them, and when it does, it is like no big deal. -----signature----- I say we put together a 'kill squad' and assassinate Darth Krayt. Who's with me?
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JediMatteus Registered: Sep '08	Date Posted: 11/7 5:41pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	I didn't mean talking to Jacen, I meant talking amongst one another and in their POVs. Talking to Jacen is what was missing at key parts of the story (beginning early on). uh Jacen, if you remember, purposely made sure he was not near Luke or Mara most of the time, when they finally caught up to him in Exile was it? He was very upset that they were there to question him. He could not be redeemed, because he chose darkness just like palpatine. he thought he chose it, for the greater good, and would not be consumed by it, but he was wrong. The only thing that would have convinced Jacen that he was wrong was if he would have seen a vision of himselfcausing the world greater harm, as a sith Lord. and that never happened. people are expecting to much out of luke. Luke had a few months to figure out all that Jacen was doing, and much of it did not come to light until Inferno/Fury. not a lot of time to do anything about it. -----signature----- "Every generation has its challenges to face, its own battles to win. Why should yours be any different? Running away from your responsibilities won't solve anything." -Luke Skywalker
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xx_Anakin_xx Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 11/7 7:36pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3) - Date Edited: 11/7 7:41pm (2 edits total) Edited By: xx_Anakin_xx
	Darth_Foo posted: so thats about it for now. how is everything going here at the SOS? is the FotJ as bad as i think it is?? Great $$ deal you found for the comics. FOTJ seems to be going pretty good so far. It seems we have 4 months or so to speculate until the next book - so you can catch up reading if you like. By then, I'm sure theories will be quadrupled, lol. uh Jacen, if you remember, purposely made sure he was not near Luke or Mara most of the time, when they finally caught up to him in Exile was it? He was very upset that they were there to question him. He could not be redeemed, because he chose darkness just like palpatine. Well I wasn't a Jacen fan, so what I did, to be fair, was put Luke/Kyp and other Jedi I liked more in Jacen's shoes. I thought about them doing exactly what Jacen was doing and considered the responses of everyone around him. I don't hold Luke more guilty or anything, but I felt like if it was a Jedi I liked following in the series, I would be rightly upset about how he was dealt with overall. It wasn't about what Jacen was doing (acts or evasion), it was about how Luke and the others were written to respond that I felt was problematic. I appreciate you saw it as a workable bit of writing, but I just didn't see it that way. -----signature----- I say we put together a 'kill squad' and assassinate Darth Krayt. Who's with me?
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NewStaryknight Registered: Dec '07	Date Posted: 11/7 11:53pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	marmkid posted: xx_Anakin_xx posted: It was that Luke was ALREADY tainted with the dark side from what he had done to Lumiya and he would seek Vengeance in the end NO MATTER WHAT, if he tried to stop Jacen - which was why he could only see a dark path no matter how he looked at it. In other words, to me, it was ridiculous writing of Luke. Tainted by the dark side...of all the... especially when there are simple ways to work around it Have Luke and the masters meditate on the best way to deal with Caedus, as he has become such a growing threat All they see is darkness, except when Jaina is involved So they decide to send Jaina why introduce something completely new like a dark side taint for one book only, just as a plot device to set up Jaina vs Jacen I know right. I've said from the very beginning, having Luke say that he can't face Jacen directly or else he will probably fall because he will go after him in vengeance but that he can still get involved with the process of defeating Jacen by having him send Jaina to do it and then make him easier for her to kill by manipulating his visions and sight and not be vengeful while doing that and therefore not go to the dark side is just stupid. If Luke could do all that without falling, it stands to reason that he could have gone against Jacen face to face and not fall. But Denning and the the other powers that be just had to have their great twin duel, so they came up with the lamest excuse to get Luke out of the way without killing him off. Well, I'm all for not killing him off, but come on. There had to be another way to get him to not fight Jacen rather than this silly "dark side taint".
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Rachel_sml Registered: Sep '09	Date Posted: 11/8 6:21am Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	FOTJ series is awesome! You should check it out. Exciting characters are introduced.. like the Lost Tribe of the Sith and Abeloth.. Its very interesting to see where the Jedi picks up after the death of Darth Caedus and the problems they're facing with Daala.
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Rachel_sml Registered: Sep '09	Date Posted: 11/8 6:45am Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Darth_Foo posted: Hello everybody! i have been without internet access (except at libraries) since April but now the Foo is back! to be honest i haven't read any of the new novels. Death Troopers seems lame, i refuse to own anything by KT, and i'd only get FotJ if i'm out of TP. all that aside i have bought a bunch of old Empire comics (on clearance $1 sale!!) which is why i'm posting this here. Shadows of their Fathers and Wrong Side of the War are awesome. Luke is portrayed perfectly, sure of himself but not yet a full Jedi. so thats about it for now. how is everything going here at the SOS? is the FotJ as bad as i think it is?? FOTJ series is awesome! You should check it out. Exciting characters are introduced.. like the Lost Tribe of the Sith and Abeloth.. Its very interesting to see where the Jedi picks up after the death of Darth Caedus and the problems they're facing with Daala.
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xx_Anakin_xx Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 11/8 10:16am Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	NewStaryknight posted: I'm all for not killing him off, but come on. There had to be another way to get him to not fight Jacen rather than this silly "dark side taint". Which actually raises an interesting question. What is this dark taint and how does one get rid of it - or does it last forever? Kyp suggested that meditation at Dagobah might help Luke through, but Luke rejected that, indicating it wouldn't help. So is Luke now forever tainted by the dark side or does the passage of time with Luke doing nothing at all in terms of good and evil allow the taint to dissipate? -----signature----- I say we put together a 'kill squad' and assassinate Darth Krayt. Who's with me?
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JediMatteus Registered: Sep '08	Date Posted: 11/8 4:45pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	I think Luke was only tainted in accordance with Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus. I really don't see luke being affected by this ever again. -----signature----- "Every generation has its challenges to face, its own battles to win. Why should yours be any different? Running away from your responsibilities won't solve anything." -Luke Skywalker
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JediMatteus Registered: Sep '08	Date Posted: 11/8 5:01pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	this is a quote from the FOTJ thread and it makes sense -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If Jacen had been captured I think he would have reverted back to the Jedi, the Luke we all know would been able to get to reason with him MATTEUS -Jacen never would have been redeemed.... not because of what he did, but his logic behind it -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- EntechednReformatted "And I have to raise a practical question. If Jacen was sitting in a cell, how would you ever know whether or not he was redeemed? Sith Lords are master liars, and words are cheap. Jacen also seems to be completely beyond any sort of mental or emotional probe. And he certainly wouldn't have any opportunity to let his actions PROVE he was redeemed, not while sitting in that cell. So once Jacen goes into that cell, how do you EVER let him out again? You don't. Jacen dies in that box. So the question is, how much do you risk? Your life? Ok, sure. Your family's life? Uh ... The lives and freedoms and safety of trillions of sentients? All to give Jacen the opportunity to slowly die in a box? The risk/reward equation there is not favorable. Wouldn't that be, to quote Vergere, "a little sick?" And while we're on the subject, it's worthwhile to go back and look at Luke's heroic redemption of Vader a little more closely. Luke feels there is good in Vader, and just knows that he needs to bring him back from the Dark Side. He senses it. (That's important. If Luke didn't sense the same thing in Jacen, there wouldn't be much point in trying something similar with him.) So he hatches a bold plan: he will surrender to the Imperials, let them bring him to Vader, and then convince Vader to leave with him and help him bring down the shield so that the Emperor can die when the Rebels blow up the Death Star. Cut to the conversation on the landing platform. Well, that didn't work out so well, did it? "My father is truly dead." I guess it's on to Plan B: wait for the rebels to blow up the Death Star and die alongside Vader and the Emperor. But soon the Emperor makes it clear that THIS sure isn't a likely scenario, either. Luke, in a burst of frustration, attacks, and finds himself fighting Vader. So now what? Even if he can beat Vader, he sure as heck isn't going to be defeating the Emperor. What options does he have? Go to the Dark Side? Uh, no. The only move left to him is to desperately go back to failed Plan A: convince Vader to help him against the Emperor. And when Vader brilliantly taunts "perhaps SHE will!" Luke abandons that idea too. He gives in to his fear and rage and frustration and whups Vader. And then at the critical moment, he rejects the Dark Side. Is he thinking "THIS will bring my father back" or is he thinking "I will not become HIM. I'll die before I turn to the Dark Side"? I'm thinking it's option number 2. But of course, his example DOES bring Vader back. So, Luke's first attempt to redeem Vader (on the landing platform) was an honestly noble gesture born of Luke's sense that there was still good in Vader, with a backup plan to die with him on the Death Star " -----signature----- "Every generation has its challenges to face, its own battles to win. Why should yours be any different? Running away from your responsibilities won't solve anything." -Luke Skywalker
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 11/8 7:45pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Good to see SOS busy! I hope to catch up soon, but real life has thrown a couple of nasty curves, so just a couple of comments for now. marmkid : Basically saying the only way the galaxy could be saved was by a Jedi not being a Jedi That makes it look like being a Jedi is wrong And that's very anti-Star Wars, I would say. xx_Anakin_xx : Luke saw himself going dark if he tried to play savior/hero and defeat Caedus. He already showed what he would do in that situation - nothing. Luke didn't necessarily see that he would go dark, but that it might end in darkness for everyone, and it was a possibility, not a certainty. But Luke didn't want to take the risk of either falling himself or of darkness coming to the galaxy when there was someone else who could be sent in his place. I believe that if there had been no other option, Luke would have taken that risk and faced Jacen. However, since there was an alternative available in Jaina, and she herself WANTED the responsibility, Luke chose to send Jaina in his place. I do think it was a wise decision on Luke's part to avoid a situation that his visions showed might cause greater harm for the galaxy. He wasn't so arrogant as to think that he was the only one who could solve the problem of Jacen/Caedus and save the galaxy. Jacen, on the other hand, did think that he was the only one who could save the galaxy, and he ended up nearly destroying it. If Luke ends up feeling it true that Jacen sacrficed himself so Luke wouldn't go dark in the first place, Again, though, A, HOW is it possible for a person to take another's place in a vision???? It's one thing to affect a vision; quite another to take it upon one's self to put someon else in that position in reality. HOW could Jacen know this would work??? How did he know that he wouldn't just be creating ANOTHER Sith Lord in addition to the first??? If some would see Jacen as a hero in that situation, there is nothing anyone can do about that. But to me, heroes don't act in sacrifice the way Jacen did, so while he may have had a heroic idea, he didn't make choices that a hero would make in line with that idea. Right. Becoming a Sith is NOT a good, noble, or heroic thing no matter how you slice it. Luke might pity Jacen's situation and even feel grateful for the love he showed to Luke and the galaxy in making such a sacrifice on his behalf, I truly don't want Luke to be grateful to Jacen because this would mean that Luke WOULD have DEFINITELY become a Sith if Jacen wouldn't have been one and I don't believe this is or should be true. I mean the most one could say about the two above situations is that Jacen was willing to sacrifice himself to darkness for Luke, but Luke wasn't willing to sacrifice himself to darkness for Jacen. It wasn't that Luke wasn't willing to sacrifice himself to darkness for Jacen. Luke wasn't willing to become a SIth to cause more pain and destruction to the rest of the GALAXY. Luke wasn't willing to bring harm to many people. While there are many takes on what Jacen became, I think Luke's main concern is going to be what drove Jacen to become Caedus. And see, I don't think this should be LUke's main concern. I think Luke's main concern should be to find out why the other young Jedi are going nuts. Now, if what happened to Jacen IS connected to that, then fine, it's important to know what caused Jacen to become a Sith. But if the two are not connected, then Luke's priority needs to be to find and fix the problem with the other Jedi. Jacen is already dead. There's nothing that can be done for him anymore. On the other hand, the Jedi Order is rapidly falling apart and falling out of favor with the galaxy because these young Jedi are doing strange and scary things and giving the Jedi Order really BAD publicity. I don't know how Luke can ever get the Jedi's good reputation back after all this. Luke and the Jedi are going to have to do something truly amazing to make up for the public's loss of confidence in the Jedi.
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Robimus Registered: Jul '07	Date Posted: 11/8 7:57pm Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Why is it that something must have happened to Jacen for him to follow the parth he did? Maybe nothing happened, maybe that was his destiny. Luke really is trying to find the source of the Jedi Madness in FOTJ, the Jacen bit is a sidetrack of sorts even though Luke thinks it may be connected. -----signature----- I am forever seeking the damutek of Hooley Krekk Oh, woe! Oh, misery! Oh, unhappiness. Hooley Krekk where are you? . http://www.cccomiccon.com http://www.actionfigurenews.ca
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marmkid Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 11/9 4:04am Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	ChildOfWinds posted: xx_Anakin_xx : Luke saw himself going dark if he tried to play savior/hero and defeat Caedus. He already showed what he would do in that situation - nothing. Luke didn't necessarily see that he would go dark, but that it might end in darkness for everyone, and it was a possibility, not a certainty. Yeah this seems to be one of those ideas that people are saying as fact now. Luke meditated to find any insight to the right course of action to take against Caedus and did not see anything but darkness for the galaxy if he went to personally confront Caedus. It was not specifically that he was going to turn Sith He was thinking of more than himself, which i think gets lost in this He wasnt worried about himself or getting killed, he was worried about some larger darkness surrounding him going That can mean many things A. Luke could go dark with revenge for Caedus killing Mara B. Caedus could kill Luke which leaves a crippled Jedi Order with no leader and a Sith Lord ruling the galaxy who can now use the same route Palpatine did with outlawing the Jedi, which leads to darkness for the galaxy ChildOfWinds posted: I mean the most one could say about the two above situations is that Jacen was willing to sacrifice himself to darkness for Luke, but Luke wasn't willing to sacrifice himself to darkness for Jacen. It wasn't that Luke wasn't willing to sacrifice himself to darkness for Jacen. Luke wasn't willing to become a SIth to cause more pain and destruction to the rest of the GALAXY. Luke wasn't willing to bring harm to many people. exactly Luke would have gladly given his life to save Jacen from becoming what he did But Luke wont justify turing evil and killing innocent people for anything, even Jacen Because that so called "sacrifice" isnt real if you murder innocent people Jacen didnt "sacrifice" anything He murdered innocent people
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xx_Anakin_xx Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 11/9 8:31am Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3) - Date Edited: 11/9 8:33am (1 edits total) Edited By: xx_Anakin_xx
	marmkid posted: ChildOfWinds posted: xx_Anakin_xx : Luke saw himself going dark if he tried to play savior/hero and defeat Caedus. He already showed what he would do in that situation - nothing. Luke didn't necessarily see that he would go dark, but that it might end in darkness for everyone, and it was a possibility, not a certainty. Yeah this seems to be one of those ideas that people are saying as fact now. Luke meditated to find any insight to the right course of action to take against Caedus and did not see anything but darkness for the galaxy if he went to personally confront Caedus. It was not specifically that he was going to turn Sith He was thinking of more than himself, which i think gets lost in this He wasnt worried about himself or getting killed, he was worried about some larger darkness surrounding him going That can mean many things Invincible (76/77) Luke: "There's a shadow in the future. And the farther I look, the darker it grows." Han: "Caedus" Luke: "He's part of it, the seed - though exactly how remains hidden to me" Jaina: "But the darkness doesn't go away when you kill Caedus" (Jaina feels shame in the Force from Luke) Luke: "That's right" Han: "You lose?" "Tell me you're kidding" Luke: "It's worse. I win" Leia: "Oh. Luke, I'm sorry. What I said earlier about going to the dark side, I didn't mean..." Luke: "I kknow. But it is true. If I had any doubts about it before, my visions have only confirmed what Saba suggested on Shedu Maad - I have been tainted by killing Lumiya in vengeance. I can't go after Caedus without becoming the same as Caedus." It seems pretty clear to me that Luke saw himself going dark and wasn't referring to some larger darkness surrounding him. It is debatable whether Caedus was a 'Sith' - but I don't think it is debatable that he was "dark". So Luke may not have seen himself turning into a Sith, but he did see himself turning dark. -----signature----- I say we put together a 'kill squad' and assassinate Darth Krayt. Who's with me?
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marmkid Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 11/9 8:57am Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	xx_Anakin_xx posted: It seems pretty clear to me that Luke saw himself going dark and wasn't referring to some larger darkness surrounding him. It is debatable whether Caedus was a 'Sith' - but I don't think it is debatable that he was "dark". So Luke may not have seen himself turning into a Sith, but he did see himself turning dark. ah cool, thanks for posting that I remember that now, with Leia mildly lecturing Luke beforehand (which always makes no sense given her loose morals with the force and as a jedi) I still dont really understand why Luke would be in such risk if he killed Caedus personally I can't imagine Luke killing Caedus then having that instantly make him become a Sith Lord or dark Jedi with a thirst to take over the galaxy or whatever evil he was worried about He was never really lost in rage or anything over it I understand that if you kill in anger, it opens you to the dark side, and then are in danger of becoming dark because of it. But if Luke kills Caedus, even for revenge, there doesnt seem to be anything keeping him dark. I guess that just opens him up to then solving all his problems with revenge kills? I see it making sense in Jacen's case, as his overall goal was his personal view of galactic peace. There wasnt one specific kill or act that accomplished his goal. So he had to continue on, and using the dark side is easier, so it became easier and easier. In Luke's case, the revenge for his despair over losing Mara would be complete once he killed Caedus. So what then, really? Why would he become a monster? If its ok for Jaina to kill Caedus because of the threat he was, i am not sure i really see why it would have been so bad for Luke to do it also. What exactly was in danger of happening?
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xx_Anakin_xx Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 11/9 11:52am Subject: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	marmkid posted: ah cool, thanks for posting thatI remember that now, with Leia mildly lecturing Luke beforehand (which always makes no sense given her loose morals with the force and as a jedi)I still dont really understand why Luke would be in such risk if he killed Caedus personally I can't imagine Luke killing Caedus then having that instantly make him become a Sith Lord or dark Jedi with a thirst to take over the galaxy or whatever evil he was worried about He was never really lost in rage or anything over it. I understand that if you kill in anger, it opens you to the dark side, and then are in danger of becoming dark because of it. But if Luke kills Caedus, even for revenge, there doesnt seem to be anything keeping him dark. I guess that just opens him up to then solving all his problems with revenge kills? I agree. But more so because Saba, Kyp, Han, Jaina, Leia and Luke weren't talking about killing Caedus when Saba said that to Luke. They were talking about 'another alternative to assassination'. It makes even less sense that the act of capturing Jacen would turn Luke dark. So I had to think they meant the after-effects of capture would do it - but without any explanation for why Luke would suddenly go reeling into darkness, it makes no sense. That is just not how Luke is - at least not up to that point. posted: I see it making sense in Jacen's case, as his overall goal was his personal view of galactic peace. There wasnt one specific kill or act that accomplished his goal. So he had to continue on, and using the dark side is easier, so it became easier and easier. I know some may see it as nitpicking - but this is exactly the type of idea I have a problem with. I fully agree with what you said. But then why have Caedus think in his POV (late in the series), he was too tired to get up any anger and hate to pull off a particular major feat in the Force. So instead he used the love he felt for his family, Luke, his sister, Mara (who was dead), Ben and other friends/family in order to ammass the strength in the Force he needed. It is just one of the types of incongruencies that makes Caedus' rendering so confusing. Why not have him just use anger and be done with it? He would not only make a more convincing Sith, he would make a more convincing dark individual. As you say (and as Yoda said), using the dark side (passions) is easier - and by that time should have been easy as pie - but it was 'harder' for Jacen because he was tired. posted: In Luke's case, the revenge for his despair over losing Mara would be complete once he killed Caedus. So what then, really? Why would he become a monster? If its ok for Jaina to kill Caedus because of the threat he was, i am not sure i really see why it would have been so bad for Luke to do it also. What exactly was in danger of happening? Right - that is another reason why it was so poorly contrived. Sending Jaina to do what would turn Luke dark makes little sense - unless it was the 'after effect' and not the actual act that would do it. But to me, assassination is always dark and only justifiable as a last resort when there are no alternatives. Use of future visions is not a good basis for this because the future is in motion (and that is exactly what Jacen was doing by the way). So it made no sense for Luke to base his action on this nebulous future vision he had where he wasn't sure if it was the act of capture or the after effects that might cause him to fall to darkness - and if indeed it was actually going to really happen at all. The idea was supposed to be that Luke was "tainted" - which is not explained very well, and Jaina was not. But I don't really get that either because Jaina was as gun-ho on killing Caedus as Luke - more so - after her training and adopting the hatred of the Mandos and in the wake of finding out about Mara. And when she actually went to kill him, she attacked first and refused to consider anything other than death for Caedus under the idea that he was a 'lying Sith' that could not be trusted and had to die. It seems to me that if Luke went in the same way - attacking, unwilling to listen, unwilling to be swayed from murder, unwilling to believe that there was no alternative, even if his foe offered him one, then yeah, he would be behaving darkishly - just as Jaina was. But why would that cause Luke to remain dark and not Jaina? Is she strong enough to overcome that, while Luke is not? Again, we go back to the taint - but I propose that Jaina was as tainted as Luke in that regard, she just never worried over her past choices to kill the way Luke did. Sneaking in and blowing people out of her way that might pose an obstruction is how she'd done things for a long while - would that have left her with this taint? Another angle is that Luke felt tainted because he hadn't taken any alternative to Lumiya (and she hadn't offered one either) - and just killed her. She was evil - and she had been a particular foe of Luke's trying to destroy him in various ways. Well let's say for discussion's sake that Jacen was evil (some authors have said he was not, but forget that for now), well, first off, Jacen hadn't been Jaina's foe trying to destroy her for many years - but instead her "twin bonded - brother", and Jaina hadn't taken any alternative when she went to kill her brother and he even bothered to offer one - so did she not get any "taint" from that? Why is Luke more suseptible than Jaina to this 'taint'? I think in this, they would say that Jaina had more justification in going after Caedus than Luke did with Lumiya - but that is hogwash. They were both doing evil stuff, so either you go after them and kill them or you take an alternative if it presents itself - it can't be okay for Jaina to not bother with alternatives, but Luke responsible for doing so. It wasn't like Lumiya was necessarily easy to capture - it just turned out that Luke had an opportunity in the end - well so did Jaina. But her not taking it is okay, but Luke not taking it isn't? -----signature----- I say we put together a 'kill squad' and assassinate Darth Krayt. Who's with me?
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