Jedi Council Forums - SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

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Author	Topic: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 4/21/08 1:57pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	J_K_DART posted: I don't know, Havac, it seemed to be deliberately ambiguous imo. I think Luke was just genuinely depressed. Of course, "Thanatos" is described by Freud as being present in all human beings to a certain amount.
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NewStaryknight Registered: Dec '07	Date Posted: 4/21/08 2:34pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3) - Date Edited: 4/21/08 2:35pm (1 edits total) Edited By: NewStaryknight
	I always thought "suicidal" meant that you wanted to kill yourself. Luke was just hoping that his death would come soon so that he could be with Mara again. I consider that as an example of having a death wish rather than being suicidal, though they kinda go hand in hand. Ben made him see that thats no way to live and its not what Mara would have wanted. At the end of Fury Ben reflects on this to, and comes to the conclusion that he would live for her. I think Luke came to a similar decision.
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BobaMatt Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 4/21/08 2:38pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3) - Date Edited: 4/21/08 2:39pm (1 edits total) Edited By: BobaMatt
	I don't think losing a desire to live is the same as deciding that you want to die... It's not really ambiguous, it's never even implied that he wants to off himself, it's just stated that he's...depressed. Intensely. Like Charles said, we're talking about thanatos and eros. -----signature----- DUNE - Chronicles of the Imperium RP http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_wars_role_playing/b10755/29433346/p1/?11 As Father and Son (An AU RP) http://boards.theforce.net/role_playing_forum/b10328/28357048/p1/?10 Emperor Fel's badassery knows no bounds.
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 4/21/08 2:41pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	BobaMatt posted: I don't think losing a desire to live is the same as deciding that you want to die... It's not really ambiguous, it's never even implied that he wants to off himself, it's just stated that he's...depressed. Intensely. As stated the urge to oblivion is a very concrete thing in psychology. It's not even close to suicide though but is often found with many people who suffer Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and similar ailments. For a fictional example of the differences, James in Silent Hill 2 struggles with Thanatos the entire game. Only one of the four endings results in him taking his own life. Most of them merely reflect he feels really awful about the prospect of life but is trudging on in a fugue state.
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Havac Title: Lit Mod of War Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 4/21/08 4:36pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Exactly. He's got no intention of killing himself, but he's not exactly feeling a great compulsion to go on living, and if something does happen to him, it'll be a release more than a tragedy. -----signature----- "Is there a captain's hat involved in this?"
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NewStaryknight Registered: Dec '07	Date Posted: 4/21/08 4:46pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	^^Right, and then Ben helped him out with that.
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ChildOfWinds Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 4/21/08 8:16pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3) - Date Edited: 4/21/08 8:21pm (1 edits total) Edited By: ChildOfWinds
	Emperor_Time So if Luke dies in the upcoming book then who would become the next Jedi Grand Master of the Jedi Order? This is something I hope we won't need to worry about for a VERY long time! I want Luke Skywalker to live a VERY long life and become one with the Force at a very old age surrounded by family and friends. I'm not sure that there would be another Jedi Grandmaster for a while after Luke is gone. There's a Jedi Council, so I'm not sure that there would need to be a Grandmaster necessarily. If there is a Grandmaster in the near future, I would think Luke might want it to be Kam Solusar. He's become a steady rock for the Jedi, a capable teacher. He doesn't seem to be one who goes off on Jedi Missions very often, so he would be available to be the head honcho of the Jedi. But as I said, I want Luke to be the Jedi Grandmaster for a very long time to come. Charlemagne19 At least I'm glad to see that you're not advocating that Luke kill the stormtroopers. Still, I can't see Luke dropping all of his responsibilities just to bring a few stormtroopers to justice for his own selfish reasons. DeJade_Vu He was worried Luke was considering suicide? Yes, for a short time, Ben was afraid his father was so depressed that he wanted to die. And when Luke said, that he really ought to be thinking about grooming a candidate to be the next Grandmaster, here is some of the text from Fury: "Ben didn't speak for long moments, and Luke felt a growing swell of confusion and concern radiate from the boy. Then there was a jolt of stronger emotion from Ben: fear. Luke looked up to see Ben suddenly on his feet, staring with an expression of naked alarm on his face. And then he was pacing, running his fingers through his hair, ruffling it as though the sudden untidiness would help the thoughts escape. 'You want to be with Mom... You want to be dead. At peace. With her. Dead.'" Luke then said, "That's ridiculous," to which Ben countered: "No, it isn't. When Uncle Han and Aunt Leia told us Alema Rar was dead, you should have said, Now I can get back to work. Instead, you're saying Now I can turn over the Jedi Order to someone who's worthy. You're getting ready to die. Problem is, you don't have an incurable disease or a blaster pressed against your head. So how's it going to happen?" Ben's voice cracked on the last word. Luke told Ben that he was leaping to the wrong conclusion, but as he struggled for the right argument to make his son see that this was a ridiculous idea, Luke realized the argument wasn't there. On the next page Ben talks about what attachment is and says, "It's where, if something goes wrong, there's nothing left of you. It's where if she goes away, you start functioning like a droid with a restraining bolt installed. Mom wouldn't want you to be this way. So why are you?" Luke goes on to say that he can't help it and then thinks to himself that Ben was right. About exactly what is left ambiguous. But it's NOT ambiguous that Ben thought his father was so depressed that he wanted to die. Havac said that after Ben pointed this out to Luke, that he "snapped back into shape". Well, he did...but not completely. Ben was concerned about his father's emotional state in Revelation too, and Luke IS written as crying when he says, "Ben you're so decent". Luke still seems vulnerable. And we know that Luke still isn't over his funk after killing Lumiya, as it appears from blurbs that Luke won't face Jacen/Caedus because he's afraid he'll fall to the dark side after his earlier vengeance killing of Lumiya. And yes, Luke killed Lumiya in revenge because he thought she had killed Mara. He said, "You're mine. A life for a life," when he went to kill Lumiya. During their duel, Lumiya would have fallen over a cliff to her death, but Luke reached out and saved her, then looked her in the eyes and decapitated her. I wanted Luke to kill Lumiya after all the terrible things she had done to him and his family over many years, but I wanted Luke to kill her in a fair fight, not the way it was done. This was one of the worst things...if not THE worst thing... that Luke has ever done in his life, in my opinion. BobaMatt It's not really ambiguous, it's never even implied that he wants to off himself, it's just stated that he's...depressed. Intensely. Yes, he's depressed. As I said, so much so that Ben thought he wanted to die.
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Havac Title: Lit Mod of War Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 4/21/08 9:50pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Actually, he was just tearing up because he's proud of Ben. He probably would have done that regardless of whether Mara was dead or not. -----signature----- "Is there a captain's hat involved in this?"
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NewStaryknight Registered: Dec '07	Date Posted: 4/22/08 6:45am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	^^Thats what I say. Just because a man gets choked up a little because he's proud of his son doesn't mean he's emotionally unstable.
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RK_Striker_JK_5 Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 4/22/08 6:46am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Mara shouldn't have been killed off in the first place. Luke deserved some damned happiness and a stable home life, for kriff's sake! -----signature----- E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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NewStaryknight Registered: Dec '07	Date Posted: 4/22/08 6:51am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	^^Now do you see why I don't want Luke killed off at this point. He's had to much sadness in these recent years.
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DurronFan Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 4/22/08 10:47am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Although, is it fair to expect a great man with great power and responsobility to ever get a chance to live, say, a decade or two in peace and happiness? I don't think anybody is doubting whether or not he deserves happiness but perhaps in the SW universe it's just not meant to be. -----signature----- Luke Skywalker: I'm not afraid! Yoda: Good... You will be. You will be.
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NewStaryknight Registered: Dec '07	Date Posted: 4/22/08 10:52am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	^^Luke and Spiderman would probably get along great huh.
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Jedi Ben Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 4/22/08 11:56am Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	NewStaryknight posted: ^^Luke and Spiderman would probably get along great huh. Heh, Luke isn't saddled with an aging grandparent nor does he make deals with the Devil and honours it! One crucial difference between Marvel and SW EU is the one plays with time and the other doesn't, so despite there being some 45 years of Spiderman stories, they all took place across 10 years at max, if that and that's without time trickery entering into it. In contrast Luke is now, what? 60? 65? He's been fighting wars for 4 decades! At some point people are going to ask: Geez, can't this guy get a break? In the real world it'd be like a man fighting: World War 2, Korea, Vietnam. -----signature----- Excellence: "You are the forum's Quick Ben." SW EU fans: John Ostrander needs your help! http://www.comix4sight.com
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 4/22/08 12:51pm Subject: RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
	Jedi Ben posted: NewStaryknight posted: ^^Luke and Spiderman would probably get along great huh. Heh, Luke isn't saddled with an aging grandparent nor does he make deals with the Devil and honours it! One crucial difference between Marvel and SW EU is the one plays with time and the other doesn't, so despite there being some 45 years of Spiderman stories, they all took place across 10 years at max, if that and that's without time trickery entering into it. In contrast Luke is now, what? 60? 65? He's been fighting wars for 4 decades! At some point people are going to ask: Geez, can't this guy get a break? In the real world it'd be like a man fighting: World War 2, Korea, Vietnam. Actually some generals did. However, I think Luke is not the kind of man who wants to retire peacefully. Even if all the galaxy wars stopped, Luke would continue fighting. Yes, Luke is Big Boss!
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