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Topic:
SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
4/30 12:50pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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DarkMastermind posted:
In the case of Anakin Skywalker, he was possessive of his wife to the point that it was like a deadly obsession or something. Not to mention Palpatine was influencing him has well. Though I don't think anyone can say for certain how Anakin would've turned out had he never met Palpatine. Has for personal attachments in the Jedi order I think it should be allowed. One thing I still don't really agree with that the OJO did was taking infants from their families to train them. Obviously Luke couldn't do this because he didn't have the manpower or time to take care of that many children. Still, do you think it was right for the OJO to do this?
In the case of Luke Skywalker's NJO, I think it's perfectly acceptable for children to be raised by the Jedi Order. Jacen Solo may have turned out awful but that wasn't because of the way he was raised by the Jedi Knights. Also, Anakin and plenty of other children who grew up on Yavin IV turned out fine.
I do think it was a mistake that Jedi candidates were turned away later in life, though. Luke was smart to correct this.
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DarkMastermind
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
4/30 1:40pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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Charlemagne19 posted:
I do think it was a mistake that Jedi candidates were turned away later in life, though. Luke was smart to correct this.
I know what's the deal there? So a student may not be an infant it still doesn't mean he/she shouldn't be trained on how to use the force properly. If I were on the Jedi council I'd rather have a non jedi who knew who to use the force than a non jedi who didn't.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
4/30 1:49pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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DarkMastermind posted:
Charlemagne19 posted:
I do think it was a mistake that Jedi candidates were turned away later in life, though. Luke was smart to correct this.
I know what's the deal there? So a student may not be an infant it still doesn't mean he/she shouldn't be trained on how to use the force properly. If I were on the Jedi council I'd rather have a non jedi who knew who to use the force than a non jedi who didn't.
I think it was more people without training pose no threat.
A guy with a little training can screw up the world.
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DarkMastermind
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
4/30 3:10pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
- Date Edited:
4/30 3:11pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DarkMastermind
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All the more reason to accept people into the jedi order regardless of age. While we're talking about this have you ever thought about a Mandalorian being a Jedi?
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
4/30 3:40pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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DarkMastermind posted:
All the more reason to accept people into the jedi order regardless of age. While we're talking about this have you ever thought about a Mandalorian being a Jedi?
I think the Mandalorian Code of ethics is anti-ethical to being a Jedi.
And frankly, I disagree. I think Luke should have turned away Brakiss, Desann, Kueller, and a few other characters from his Academy at the start.
Some people are unsuitable for Jedi training.
TOO EVIL TO BEGIN THE TRAINING.
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DarkMastermind
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
4/30 3:45pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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Maybe, but Luke couldn't have possibly known that they would fall to the dark side. Still, even if he did know that a student would or could fall to the dark side, I wonder if he'd still admit them to the order. Oh, and what is the Mandalorian code of ethics?
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
4/30 3:55pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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DarkMastermind posted:
Maybe, but Luke couldn't have possibly known that they would fall to the dark side. Still, even if he did know that a student would or could fall to the dark side, I wonder if he'd still admit them to the order. Oh, and what is the Mandalorian code of ethics?
If Luke did and taught them the Jedi way then he's guilty for whatever crimes they later perform as much as they are.
And the Mandalorian Code boils down to "War=Awesome."
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DarkMastermind
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
4/30 4:03pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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Charlemagne19 posted:
And the Mandalorian Code boils down to "War=Awesome."
True, but when you get down to it family is still important to the Mandalorians.
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MariahJade2
Title: FanFic Archive Editor
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
4/30 4:32pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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In the case of Luke Skywalker's NJO, I think it's perfectly acceptable for children to be raised by the Jedi Order. Jacen Solo may have turned out awful but that wasn't because of the way he was raised by the Jedi Knights. Also, Anakin and plenty of other children who grew up on Yavin IV turned out fine.
I just can't agree with you on the old Jedi and the New Jedi, sorry Charles. I think family and Jedi life need not be exclusive and should be a choice. The whole system just treads way too close to communism style methods for me, where some organized authority decides what your fate should be, what job you should have. Heck they even sent the "losers" to a collective farm.  Not even back to their families? A system where there is a controlled state Religion in charge of your life?
Children should have the chance to decide for themselves if they want to be a Jedi or not. What if they wanted to grow up to do something completly different but just as valuable? Should some third party like Luke or Yoda really have that say? I say no. A person should choose to become a Jedi and see that the Force is calling them in that direction in their lives not have it the other way around.
The whole trying to fit the prequel notion of what the Jedi should do into Luke's group has always seemed forced to me. When Luke and Leia fought to restore democracy back after the Empire, regressing to the old Jedi way just doesn't work.
Regarding it being too much of a burden to be a Jedi and have a home life. Families have survived for centuries with fathers and mothers going off to jobs or wars or work trips and I don't see it as a burden to have a Jedi go off on missions and when they are done to come home. I liked that Luke had to find his own way with the Jedi, and I was very disappointed to have the old order methods derail what he was accomplishing.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
4/30 4:39pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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MariahJade posted:
I just can't agree with you on the old Jedi and the New Jedi, sorry Charles. I think family and Jedi life need not be exclusive and should be a choice. The whole system just treads way too close to communism style methods for me, where some organized authority decides what your fate should be, what job you should have. Heck they even sent the "losers" to a collective farm. plain Not even back to their families? A system where there is a controlled state Religion in charge of your life?
The Jedi are their family. In Dark Rendevouz, the Count Dooku summarized my opinion best. He pretty much spit in the face of a Jedi's biological mother and basically said that she was a fool to think that her "child" would think of her anything but a stranger who loved the Jedi Order that had raised him and loved him rather than someone who'd given her way.
My assumption for children raised by the Jedi Order is that their family is the Jedi. Maybe it's because I grew up in a family of adopted children and I have intimate experience with the sleazy, disgusting, and vile blood relations of most of my adopted brothers and sisters.
I would probably not make it as a Jedi because my feelings towards those 'relations once removed' is hatred and scorn.
MariahJade posted:
The whole trying to fit the prequel notion of what the Jedi should do into Luke's group has always seemed forced to me. When Luke and Leia fought to restore democracy back after the Empire, regressing to the old Jedi way just doesn't work.
I think in a galaxy filled with lost children and the children of Jedi Knights that the idea that people should restrict their gifts from being learned just because it should be "their choice" is a dangerously misguided one.
Education should begin early and often.
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MariahJade2
Title: FanFic Archive Editor
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
4/30 4:50pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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Awwww Charles.  Sorry you had bad experiences but not all famiies are bad things.
I don't think giving a person a choice is resticting them. It's giving them freedom. And I don't think learning to use Jedi skills should be kept away from them either. What's wrong with a day school?
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
4/30 4:56pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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MariahJade2 posted:
Awwww Charles. Sorry you had bad experiences but not all famiies are bad things.
I don't think giving a person a choice is resticting them. It's giving them freedom. And I don't think learning to use Jedi skills should be kept away from them either. What's wrong with a day school?
Well I went to Boarding School so I don't have much of a problem with them either. I just note that the Jedi Knights should probably have their own planet since they have so many problems with terrorist attacks as is.
My .02
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DarkMastermind
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
4/30 5:03pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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I'm going to have to agree with Mariah on this issue. You may have been abused has a kid or whatever but families are a good thing. Hell, even before the OJO got started Jedi were allowed to have familial attachments back in the old, old, old days. And children should not simply be taken from their parents has infants. I know the jedi weren't baby stealers but the child should have some say in what happens to them. Regarding the jedi and terrorist attacks, hell they should probably have their own fleet and planetary defenses sense everyone keeps trying to kill them.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
4/30 5:06pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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DarkMastermind posted:
I'm going to have to agree with Mariah on this issue. You may have been abused has a kid or whatever but families are a good thing. Hell, even before the OJO got started Jedi were allowed to have familial attachments back in the old, old, old days. And children should not simply be taken from their parents has infants. I know the jedi weren't baby stealers but the child should have some say in what happens to them. Regarding the jedi and terrorist attacks, hell they should probably have their own fleet and planetary defenses sense everyone keeps trying to kill them.
As a note, I'm a blood child but my point is that FAMILY is a relative concept.
It's where your loved and the Jedi can provide that just as surely as a biological parent.
Anyone who says otherwise is probably speaking from ignorance of the adoptive process.
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MariahJade2
Title: FanFic Archive Editor
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
4/30 5:23pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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Well I went to Boarding School so I don't have much of a problem with them either. I just note that the Jedi Knights should probably have their own planet since they have so many problems with terrorist attacks as is.
Well that's an interesting point. What about Luke's school at Yavin? Wasn't it easier to wipe out or attack Jedi there and at the Temple when they are all in one spot then if they were all over the place scattered around like leaves? I see your perspective I just think there are flaws in keeping them isloated.
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