| Author |
Topic:
SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
DarkMastermind
Registered:
Dec '06
|
Date Posted:
4/30 5:50pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
|
I think the jedi should have multiple academies on different planets. Well, at least if the jedi get large numbers like the did in OJO. They should have one main temple or academy and then several others spread throughout the galaxy. That way they can cover more territory and people like the Vong or whatever won't have to destroy one planet to wipe out the jedi. And the jedi should not live a monk like lifestyle away from civilization.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
|
Date Posted:
4/30 6:03pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
|
I believe there are multiple academies. Corran has one on Corellia, and Streen and Kirana Ti set up one on Dathomir.
-----signature-----
" Conan, what's best in life?" " Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women."
W.W.L.D. What Would Lando Do
"Why is the rum always gone?"
Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
RK_Striker_JK_5
Registered:
Jul '03
|
Date Posted:
4/30 6:20pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
I'm sorry to hear about that, Charles. Yes, blood is not the sole defining factor of a family-but it can be. And Dooku in Dark Rendezvous... right. That's crap right there. Him, not you, mind you.
The OJO is wrong, flawed. That was the point of the prequels. Luke's Order has to make fundamental breaks from it, or else he might as well just have joined Palps on DS II right then and there.
-----signature-----
E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
|
Date Posted:
4/30 7:36pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
MariahJade2
I think the Old order Jedi had it wrong to start with, and Luke was actually correcting a mistake which partially led to the creation of Vader. No child should be removed from their parents just to be trained,
I agree. That's why I was glad to read in one of the DN books, I think it was, that Luke had seen to it that jobs were made available to the parents of the Jedi children at the Academy so the parents could be near their children and families could be together while they were taught. I also agree that love and attachments are positives, not negatives, that they hold societies together; and that families act as "checks and balances to excessive behavior".
To answer Dark M's question about taking infants from their families for training. I say, "NO WAY!" So far, it appears that Luke doesn't take infants to the Academy for training, and I hope he never does. Infants and very young children don't need to be taught so early. They should spend their early years with their families on their home worlds.
I also agree that it's the need to dominate and be in control that causes problems. But love and families are good, and I'm glad Luke decided to allow marriage and families in the New Jedi Order.
RK_Striker_JK_5
I agree, Striker! The removal of family and outside support groups was a fatal flaw of the prequel Order. As you said, obsessive, possessive love is what causes problems and it's not exclusive to Force sensitives.
And you're right: Mara was GREAT for Luke. She was a support system for Luke. Mara made Luke happy and gave him someone to share his triumphs and failures with, and was a sounding board for his ideas and concerns. She helped make Luke's very difficult, duty-filled life a little easier and a lot more pleasant. Nothing at all wrong with that!
Lord_Riven
I always felt that after something as big as the NJO series and how especially challenging it was for the Jedi Order itself - that Luke should NOT have let Jacen go wandering off. It was a time to gather together, take stock and learn and get wisdom from each other from the experiences in a shared way.
That's a good point, LR. I agree.
And you're right that Luke "...isn't infalliable and definitely not all-wise." The way he's been written in the NJO, DN, and LotF, that's for certain. Poor Luke has made FAR too many mistakes and he's been written as far too flawed for my tastes.
MariahJade2 :
Luke being unaware or clueless or too trusting just doesn't wash with me. Luke trusts to a point, but has learned when to be grounded in reality. Luke's ablity to be empathetic doesn't mean he wouldn't take charge if he saw things going wrong.
You're right. The Luke of the films was never portrayed as stupid or clueless or even as too trusting. (He took his weapons into the tree cave even though Yoda told him he wouldn't need them, remember. ) And writing Luke as too trusting or clueless does end up making Luke look weak and like a poor leader.
rebel_cheese :
Welcome back, RC!!!
Although George Lucas is making new Clone Wars cartoons, they might affect the prequel stories, but I don't think they will affect the Post -RotJ material all that much. So I don't think these cartoons will impact Luke and his story at all.
DarkMastermind
To me LOTF and NJO are nothing more than a bad dream. Some where, in a galaxy far, far away, Luke Skywalker's waking up from a nightmare called NJO and LOTF.
Oh, if ONLY we could have that happen, DM! I would love to start over again from Survivor's Quest or from VotF! Very little that was good for the galaxy or for Luke happened after SQ except for the birth of Ben. With new continuity, Luke might end up having more than one child, fulfilling Mother Rell's prophecy and Luke and Mara's vision.
Charlemagne19
For me, I'm actually of the mind that the Jedi Order had the right idea that Jedi Knights should not have attachments.
Sorry, C. I don't agree. Not allowing marriage and families was a bad idea, in my opinion.
Revenge of the Sith pretty much illustrates what a flawed and warped person Anakin was because of his possessive and destructive attitude towards all things that threatened his greedy lifestyle.
I think you covered it right there. It wasn't because Anakin married and had children that he fell and became a Sith Lord. It was because Anakin was a "flawed and warped person" with a "possessive and destructive attitude". It wasn't love and attachment that was the problem, it was that Anakin's excessive, possessive and obsessive love for Padme that caused him to fall. I think Luke was right to allow love and marriage, and I hope he doesn't change his mind as a result of events in LotF.
IMHO, there's no reason why Jedi Knights can't have families and children but remain unattached in the abstract
So are you saying that Luke should allow physical relationships but no , marriages, no commitments?? If so, I don't like that idea of the Jedi shouldering no reponsibility for the children they sire.
However, the simple fact is that I think most Jedi Knight shouldn't marry because it's a difficult and demanding lifestyle
There are many occupations that are difficult and have demanding lifestyles. As Mariah Jade said, families have survived for centuries with fathers and mothers going off to jobs or wars or work trips. It wouldn't be much different to have a Jedi go off on missions and come home to their families when their missions have been accomplished. I know someone who is in the Merchant Marine. He's home with his family for three months at a time, then goes off to work, sailing for three months at a time. The family is very close-knit and well adjusted. I can see the same thing working for the Jedi. Families of religious ministers also manage to adjust to the demands that come along with one parent being a minister. Again, I think the same would be true of Jedi families.
So no, I don't think Luke made a mistake in allowing Jedi to have families. I think it was the OJO that had it wrong, not Luke.
And let's face it: Jedi families help the Jedi Order grow too, as most offspring of Jedi are also Force sensitive. And Luke's Jedi Order needs all the Jedi it can get after Order 66 and the further loss of more Jedi in the YV and other wars.
As MJ said though. I think it should be the child's choice as to whether or not he/she should become a Jedi. It's a huge responsibility and a lifelong commitment. No one should be forced into becoming a Jedi just because he/she is sensitive to the Force. Luke and Mara weren't going to force Ben to become a Jedi if he didn't want to be one, as mentioned in the Joiner King.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
DarkMastermind
Registered:
Dec '06
|
Date Posted:
4/30 7:52pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
|
In that case, what the hell would happen to Ben if he wasn't a jedi? What would happen to anybody we've come to know and love if they didn't become jedi for that matter?
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
|
Date Posted:
4/30 7:53pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
Child of Winds posted:
So are you saying that Luke should allow physical relationships but no , marriages, no commitments?? If so, I don't like that idea of the Jedi shouldering no reponsibility for the children they sire.
To me, Jedi haters forward the view that No attachments means that. Which says something about you Windy!
No Attachments means a Jedi's Duty Comes first. That if you have to save your wife and kids versus saving a planet, you put the planet first even if it breaks your heart.
-----signature-----
Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
NewStaryknight
Registered:
Dec '07
|
Date Posted:
4/30 8:32pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
DarkMastermind posted:
I think the jedi should have multiple academies on different planets. Well, at least if the jedi get large numbers like the did in OJO. They should have one main temple or academy and then several others spread throughout the galaxy. That way they can cover more territory and people like the Vong or whatever won't have to destroy one planet to wipe out the jedi. And the jedi should not live a monk like lifestyle away from civilization.
I'm glad you mentioned this because I hear tell that in an upcoming Legacy comic will show a "secret" Jedi temple that the One Sith missed during the second purge. It might be just a rumor, but if true it could be something interesting in a future story. Sure, it could be that it was made right when the Sith attacked Ossus in the first comic, but I think it's just as possible that Luke created it years prior as a precassionary method to ensure the Jedi are never near extinct again.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
|
Date Posted:
4/30 8:50pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
Darth_Foo
what do you all think of luke in HoT thinking that he is relying too much on the Force? personally i think this is right in step with his character. he is afraid of the overuse of power because that makes one more corruptible when they get overconfident.
I think it's commendable that Luke not want to abuse or overuse the Force. However, I disagreed with Luke in HoT because I didn't think Luke WAS overusing, abusing, or relying on the Force too much. Sometimes I didn't think Luke used the Force enough in the books prior to the Hand of Thrawn Duology. There were times when, like Obi-wan, I wanted to say, "Use the Force, Luke!" 
To me, it seemed that Luke only used the Force when it was necessary, when he was protecting or defending himself or someone else. But Luke has always been "hard" on himself, has always second-guessed himself. Therefore, it didn't surprise me that he would worry that he was using the Force too much. And I thought Mara's "lecturing" of Luke was unnecessary.
Charlemagne19. I agree that Luke was smart to correct the mistake that the OJO made of turning older Jedi candidates away instead of training them.
I think Luke should have turned away Brakiss, Desann, Kueller, and a few other characters from his Academy at the start. Some people are unsuitable for Jedi training.
Yes, they were dark before they ever joined the Academy. In hindsight, it probably would have been better if they hadn't been trained. This is where Luke's compassion or proclivity to redemption were a problem. He believes that everyone can be redeemed, so he trained them, hoping to turn them into Jedi of the Light. Unfortunately, he was wrong about the ones you mentioned, and they ended up betraying Luke and causing him pain.
MariahJade2
The whole trying to fit the prequel notion of what the Jedi should do into Luke's group has always seemed forced to me. When Luke and Leia fought to restore democracy back after the Empire, regressing to the old Jedi way just doesn't work.
I completely agree! I too liked that Luke had to find his own way with the Jedi, setting up his own training program and his own Jedi traditions. The Old Jedi Order had some very obvious flaws that needed to be corrected. So I didn't like it when rules and traditions of the OJO were brought into Luke's new Jedi Order.
rumsmuggler
I believe there are multiple academies. Corran has one on Corellia, and Streen and Kirana Ti set up one on Dathomir.
While I knew that Luke had other academies on other worlds, I didn't realize the Corran had one on Corellia.
DarkMastermind , I think Ben could have become many things, but it was inevitable that Ben would become a Jedi just because he is Luke's only child. I just wanted to point out that Luke was willing to accept Ben's decision if Ben chose not to become a Jedi.
Charlemagne19
No Attachments means a Jedi's Duty Comes first. That if you have to save your wife and kids versus saving a planet, you put the planet first even if it breaks your heart.
I can agree with that. And I think Luke pretty much said the same thing a while ago when he told the Jedi that if they couldn't put the Jedi first, they shouldn't be Jedi.
But I don't think I would call that a "no attachments" rule. I think it should be called something like, the "Jedi Commitments before attachments rule.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Lord_Riven
Registered:
Nov '01
|
Date Posted:
5/1 3:13am
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
ChildOfWinds posted:
DarkMastermind
To me LOTF and NJO are nothing more than a bad dream. Some where, in a galaxy far, far away, Luke Skywalker's waking up from a nightmare called NJO and LOTF.
Oh, if ONLY we could have that happen, DM! I would love to start over again from Survivor's Quest or from VotF! Very little that was good for the galaxy or for Luke happened after SQ except for the birth of Ben. With new continuity, Luke might end up having more than one child, fulfilling Mother Rell's prophecy and Luke and Mara's vision.
Yes  - please let Luke have more children.
ChildOfWinds posted:
I think you covered it right there. It wasn't because Anakin married and had children that he fell and became a Sith Lord. It was because Anakin was a "flawed and warped person" with a "possessive and destructive attitude". It wasn't love and attachment that was the problem, it was that Anakin's excessive, possessive and obsessive love for Padme that caused him to fall. I think Luke was right to allow love and marriage, and I hope he doesn't change his mind as a result of events in LotF.
I don't think that by the end Anakin even loved Padme in the conventional sense. He loved the feeling that he gave himself when he owned Padme. It's not really love of the other person, it's love of his own feelings.
ChildofWinds posted:
As MJ said though. I think it should be the child's choice as to whether or not he/she should become a Jedi. It's a huge responsibility and a lifelong commitment. No one should be forced into becoming a Jedi just because he/she is sensitive to the Force. Luke and Mara weren't going to force Ben to become a Jedi if he didn't want to be one, as mentioned in the Joiner King.
Well Luke should learn what Nomi Sunrider did to Ulic pretty quickly.  If they could do that then there's absolutely no reason why a child of Jedi parents could not be something that didn't involve the Force.
Heck, hasn't Leia been proving it for most of her adult life up to the NJO?
-----signature-----
Legacy AU fic: Family Ties. Follow the link in the next line. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3751906/1/Star_Wars_Legacy_Family_Ties Casiah - Cade Skywalker x Marasiah Fel 'shipper (#1) Canderous >>> Boba Fett
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
DarkMastermind
Registered:
Dec '06
|
Date Posted:
5/1 8:16am
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
|
Yeah, even after learning she was force sensitive she never really used the force for anything. Of course I think she could have used some mind tricks to make sure Fey'la never became Chief of State.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
|
Date Posted:
5/1 8:18am
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
Lord_Riven posted:
Yes - please let Luke have more children.
Only if he doesn't know about them and they're by Lumiya. 
-----signature-----
Recipient of Golden Ewok™
Trip Cares
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
DarkMastermind
Registered:
Dec '06
|
Date Posted:
5/1 8:35am
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
|
Luke and Lumiya? Man whats the matter with you? Thats a worse idea than a planet that can think and move on its own!
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
|
Date Posted:
5/1 8:38am
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
DarkMastermind posted:
Luke and Lumiya? Man whats the matter with you? Thats a worse idea than a planet that can think and move on its own!
Hey, a Luke/Lumiya relationship is already canon. I'm just taking things a few steps beyond that.
-----signature-----
Recipient of Golden Ewok™
Trip Cares
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
DarkMastermind
Registered:
Dec '06
|
Date Posted:
5/1 8:59am
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
|
I know that. It's just the idea of them having kids together that I think is bad. Besides, how many girlfriends did Luke have before he finally got married?
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
NewStaryknight
Registered:
Dec '07
|
Date Posted:
5/1 11:26am
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
- Date Edited:
5/1 11:27am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
NewStaryknight
|
DarkMastermind posted:
Yeah, even after learning she was force sensitive she never really used the force for anything.
Actually, Leia did use the force occasionally in battle, but not for her political career which I think was the right thing.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
