| Author |
Topic:
SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
|
Date Posted:
5/13 2:12pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
Looking back I'd say these are the best authors for Luke:
Tyers: TAB and BP are both great, especially the latter when Luke encourages a pilot to fly out, as he'll be looking after it! - Cue one awed pilot.
KJA: Gets an undeserved bad rep, as post DE Luke had every reason to be wary of the dark side. Not that it stopped him training a class of 12 padawans to the point where they were able to defeat a 4000 year old Sith Lord!
Stackpole: Does a very good Luke, even with the collapse in DT - Luke had just moved a black hole by an entirely new Force technique!
Luceno: Surprised everyone with TUF, no one expected him to deliver such a well-done portrayal of Luke.
Zahn: Has Luke is numerous scrapes yet always allows him the skills and ingenuity to confound his foes.
Veitch: Did a truly great portrait of Luke Skywalker as a man who is willing to risk all to protect the galaxy from the greatest evil he knows and, despite major perils and imprisonment in the dark side, prevails.
-----signature-----
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too
overwhelming, for even should we fail -
should we fall - we will know that we have lived."
Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
rebel_cheese
Registered:
Jul '06
|
Date Posted:
5/13 2:35pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
My favorite Luke characterizations:
Williams/Dix: They characterized everyone well, and Luke was no exception. Their Luke has a subtle intelligence but also had a lot of skill and wasn't afraid to fight.
Zahn: His Luke was perhaps the most creative out of everyone.
Tyers: Nothing can describe how brilliant her portrayals of Luke have been. Nothing. Luke is an unquestionable hero in her hands.
Luceno: Yeah, his TUF Luke is top-of-the-line. His Luke was completely unleashed and awe-aspiring.
Allston: Luke's sense of humor always gets a boost in Allston's hands.
Finally, Walter Jon Williams turned Luke into an efficient organizer and strategist, showing the shades of "General Luke Skywalker" that had once been forgotten in the GFFA.
-----signature-----
Padawan of princess_of_naboo E-married to the amazing padawanlost  Member of Charon_Force Beginning's End: http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=28450077&brd=10477&replies=1
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Dawud786
Registered:
Dec '06
|
Date Posted:
5/13 3:28pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
Jedi Ben posted:
Looking back I'd say these are the best authors for Luke:
Tyers: TAB and BP are both great, especially the latter when Luke encourages a pilot to fly out, as he'll be looking after it! - Cue one awed pilot.
KJA: Gets an undeserved bad rep, as post DE Luke had every reason to be wary of the dark side. Not that it stopped him training a class of 12 padawans to the point where they were able to defeat a 4000 year old Sith Lord!
Stackpole: Does a very good Luke, even with the collapse in DT - Luke had just moved a black hole by an entirely new Force technique!
Luceno: Surprised everyone with TUF, no one expected him to deliver such a well-done portrayal of Luke.
Zahn: Has Luke is numerous scrapes yet always allows him the skills and ingenuity to confound his foes.
Veitch: Did a truly great portrait of Luke Skywalker as a man who is willing to risk all to protect the galaxy from the greatest evil he knows and, despite major perils and imprisonment in the dark side, prevails.
Veitch, Zahn, Luceno and Zahn all get my vote.
-----signature-----
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
NewStaryknight
Registered:
Dec '07
|
Date Posted:
5/13 5:56pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
rebel_cheese posted:
Luceno: Yeah, his TUF Luke is top-of-the-line. His Luke was completely unleashed and awe-aspiring.
Well then its a good thing he's writing the first post-LOTF book isn't it. 
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
|
Date Posted:
5/13 7:10pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
Dawud786 posted:
Veitch, Zahn, Luceno and Zahn all get my vote.
Zahn gets two votes, apparently...
-----signature-----
The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
|
Date Posted:
5/13 8:53pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
Scarran
any attempt to re build the Jedi Order without getting rid of Darth Sidious/ the Empire is akin to all the Jedi survivors standing outside the Imperial Palace waving their Lightsabers about.
But the galaxy is a huge place, and they could have found a quiet corner of the galaxy or a quiet corner of the Unknown Regions to rebuild the Order, safely away from Palpatine's watchful eyes. If all of those many Sith from Legacy can hide from the Jedi Order(including Luke Skywalker) for many years, then surviving Jedi could have hidden from the Emperor for a while, biding their time and training new apprentices, I think.
K'hrukk. Only Prequel era Jedi known to have survived to Cade's time.
But have any of Luke's Jedi survived to Cade's time? It seems that they haven't even though most of them would have been far younger than K'Kruhk. You would think that at least Lowie would have survived if not Ben and Allana.
Quinlan Vos. Unknown but unlikely to be a happy ending given that we have not see any sign of him or his offspring in the years after Endor.
I'm expecting some of his offspring to show up in Legacy eventually, if not Quinlan himself.
Thanks for the list though.
rebel_cheese :
I agree with you that the cover of Invincible is pretty awful and that 299 pages seems awfully short for an ending to a nine-book series.
My concern though is with how Luke will be portrayed in Invincible. I fear that he will be written as dark after his vengeance killing of Lumiya. Denning always seems to paint Luke with a dark brush, and I really hate that. I am already expecting Jaina to be the hero of Invincible from what we saw in Revelation and from the blurbs we've read. I just hope that poor Luke won't be further degraded and diminished in Invincible.
Please do come back and post your thoughts about what you thought of Luke's characterizations and actions in Invincible either in the EU SOS thread after you read it, or in this thread in two weeks.
Thanks for sharing your favorite Luke authors. I pretty much agree with all of your choices. But:
Williams/Dix: They characterized everyone well, and Luke was no exception. Their Luke has a subtle intelligence but also had a lot of skill and wasn't afraid to fight.
Yikes! Would you believe that I don't remember what they wrote??? Obviously, I must not have found it very memorable! 
I had also forgotten about Walter Jon Williams. You're right that he wrote Luke as an efficient organizer and strategist. I hope those qualities will be shown in Shadows of Mindor too.
So who do you think doesn't "capture" the essence of Luke in their books?
Jedi Ben :
Thanks for sharing your favorite Luke authors. I agree that Luceno did a great job with TUF. I really appreciated his portrayal of Luke. I hope he does as good a job with Luke in the Millennium Falcon book which is due out in December, I think. Luke has taken some real hits in most of the NJO, in DN, and LotF. I hope Luceno can put him back together again in this new novel, and give Luke back his integrity, resourcefulness, and competence.
I'm sure that you can guess the one author that I don't agree did a good job with Luke's characterization.
Veitch: Did a truly great portrait of Luke Skywalker as a man who is willing to risk all to protect the galaxy from the greatest evil he knows ,
That would have been a fine reason for Luke to "risk all" if that had been the reason that the author gives in the text. Unfortunately, instead of saying that Luke went to Byss to "...protect the galaxy from the greatest evil he knows", the author has Luke say in his own words that he went to find out why his father fell. What a STUPID reason to "risk all"!!!! It makes Luke seem really, really dumb and selfish, putting his own personal reasons above everyone and everything else. 
NewStaryknight :
Well then its a good thing he's writing the first post-LOTF book isn't it.
I hope so! Who are your favorite authors for writing Luke Skywalker, Stary?
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Lord_Riven
Registered:
Nov '01
|
Date Posted:
5/14 3:53am
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
- Date Edited:
5/14 3:54am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lord_Riven
|
ChildOfWinds posted:
But have any of Luke's Jedi survived to Cade's time? It seems that they haven't even though most of them would have been far younger than K'Kruhk. You would think that at least Lowie would have survived if not Ben and Allana.
Windy,
Jon answered that one in another thread when I posed the question, indirectly. He's basically said flat out that they don't want to step on DR's toes by using Lowie, Ben or Allana.
Link: http://boards.theforce.net/literature/b10003/28424383/p5
-----signature-----
Legacy AU fic: Family Ties. Follow the link in the next line. http://www.fanfiction.net/~darthriven Casiah - Cade Skywalker x Marasiah Fel 'shipper (#1) Canderous >>> Boba Fett
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Rigil_Kent
Registered:
Jan '04
|
Date Posted:
5/14 9:10am
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
ChildOfWinds posted:
Veitch: Did a truly great portrait of Luke Skywalker as a man who is willing to risk all to protect the galaxy from the greatest evil he knows ,
That would have been a fine reason for Luke to "risk all" if that had been the reason that the author gives in the text. Unfortunately, instead of saying that Luke went to Byss to "...protect the galaxy from the greatest evil he knows", the author has Luke say in his own words that he went to find out why his father fell. What a STUPID reason to "risk all"!!!! It makes Luke seem really, really dumb and selfish, putting his own personal reasons above everyone and everything else.
Whew. I was afraid I was the only one who loathed Veitch's take on Skywalker. That whole DE nightmare made no sense whatsoever, particularly given the place that Luke was in at the end of TLC. It was one of those WTF moments that came out of left field and just made no real sense to me.
Not to mention, the "rebirth" of Palpatine rendered Vader's self-sacrifice at Endor irrelevant.
-----signature-----
The Dark Side is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be ... unnatural. -Darth Sidious. Tyranny Reborn: http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/28516174/p1 Shattered Dreams: http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/2926341
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Dawud786
Registered:
Dec '06
|
Date Posted:
5/14 2:02pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
- Date Edited:
5/14 2:06pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Dawud786
|
Rigil_Kent posted:
ChildOfWinds posted:
Veitch: Did a truly great portrait of Luke Skywalker as a man who is willing to risk all to protect the galaxy from the greatest evil he knows ,
That would have been a fine reason for Luke to "risk all" if that had been the reason that the author gives in the text. Unfortunately, instead of saying that Luke went to Byss to "...protect the galaxy from the greatest evil he knows", the author has Luke say in his own words that he went to find out why his father fell. What a STUPID reason to "risk all"!!!! It makes Luke seem really, really dumb and selfish, putting his own personal reasons above everyone and everything else.
Whew. I was afraid I was the only one who loathed Veitch's take on Skywalker. That whole DE nightmare made no sense whatsoever, particularly given the place that Luke was in at the end of TLC. It was one of those WTF moments that came out of left field and just made no real sense to me.
Not to mention, the "rebirth" of Palpatine rendered Vader's self-sacrifice at Endor irrelevant.
I'm so sick of people saying that crap. I mean, first of all, by the end of Bantam's run it was postulated that Palpatine's clones weren't actually Palpatine himself. That was before the whole Chosen One prophecy and bringing balance to the Force thing ever came about. Now we have Lumiya suggesting that those clones weren't even Sith because they didn't have to earn their Sith knowledge, they had it downloaded into them.
Lastly, at the very beginning of DE Luke's reason for even letting himself be taken by Palpatine's Force storm was because he percieved a threat to the galaxy that he felt only he could stop. Then he is in the throne room he's tempted with power... and it doesn't reach Luke. His conflict is if he can strike the Emperor down right then and there and save the galaxy from this dark being. Palpatine senses it and then tells him that if he strikes him down in anger he knows he'll just live again... perhaps as Luke himself. Then he proceeds to suggest to Luke that he can conquer him if he learns the ways of the dark side, which sends Luke on this delusion that he can conquer the dark side from within. Like Ulic Qel-Droma. It's not until later that Luke thinks of this being the very reason that Anakin Skywalker turned into Darth Vader: to conquer the dark side and the Sith from within. Of course, this is both Luke rationalizing his own gradual descent into darkness and rationalizing Anakin's fall. It is not Luke's primary, or first given, reason for apprenticing himself to the clone of Palpatine.
As for TLC... you've got to bear in mind that DE and TTT were being written concurrently with each other and supposedly Zahn hated the idea of DE and didn't want to have to reference it in his story. Veitch had to work in references to what Zahn was doing in the last minute... which is why there's even an issue with Coruscant being in control of the Imperials at the beginning... let alone the apparently different mindset of Luke between TLC and DE. You've pretty much got to chalk it up to the Imperial Civil War that was raging and the dark influence of the Emperor that Luke says he feels in the Imperial Palace. Stang, Jacen and Jaina aren't even mentioned by name in DE... that doesn't happen until DEII. They need to tell they story of what happened between the two stories to make it really start to make some kind of sense.
-----signature-----
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
xx_Anakin_xx
Registered:
Jan '08
|
Date Posted:
5/14 2:12pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
You make a great point about the past...but what about the present. Luke has no problem referring to Jacen as a Sith.  . Now on page it doesn't ring true, but what's Luke agreeing with it for then?
But I have to say Denning built Luke up in this last LOTF book as a pretty awe inspiring character, so in that respect: good job!
-----signature-----
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I'll do what I must"
"You will try"
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
|
Date Posted:
5/14 3:25pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
ChildOfWinds posted:
Veitch: Did a truly great portrait of Luke Skywalker as a man who is willing to risk all to protect the galaxy from the greatest evil he knows ,
That would have been a fine reason for Luke to "risk all" if that had been the reason that the author gives in the text. Unfortunately, instead of saying that Luke went to Byss to "...protect the galaxy from the greatest evil he knows", the author has Luke say in his own words that he went to find out why his father fell. What a STUPID reason to "risk all"!!!! It makes Luke seem really, really dumb and selfish, putting his own personal reasons above everyone and everything else.
Just because that is given as a reason does not preclude there being other, better reasons!
-----signature-----
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too
overwhelming, for even should we fail -
should we fall - we will know that we have lived."
Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Dawud786
Registered:
Dec '06
|
Date Posted:
5/14 4:17pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
Jedi Ben posted:
ChildOfWinds posted:
Veitch: Did a truly great portrait of Luke Skywalker as a man who is willing to risk all to protect the galaxy from the greatest evil he knows ,
That would have been a fine reason for Luke to "risk all" if that had been the reason that the author gives in the text. Unfortunately, instead of saying that Luke went to Byss to "...protect the galaxy from the greatest evil he knows", the author has Luke say in his own words that he went to find out why his father fell. What a STUPID reason to "risk all"!!!! It makes Luke seem really, really dumb and selfish, putting his own personal reasons above everyone and everything else.
Just because that is given as a reason does not preclude there being other, better reasons!
I was just flipping through both the DE and DEII/EE TPBs.... I have to say, I think that whole Luke went because he wondered what attracted Vader to the dark side thing is complete and total fanon. I found it nowhere in the text, and I could swear I thought I did see it in the text before. Luke says that he had to follow his father's path because of destiny or whatever, but he never says he's doing so to understand him. His motivation the whole time is to defeat the Dark Empire from within just as Ulic tried to defeat the Krath from within. My previously believed "rationalization" about Anakin isn't even in the text of DE.
Maybe KJA or someone else wrote that in a novel after DE, but it's not in DE.
-----signature-----
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
|
Date Posted:
5/14 8:57pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
Lord_Riven
Jon answered that one in another thread when I posed the question, indirectly. He's basically said flat out that they don't want to step on DR's toes by using Lowie, Ben or Allana.
So are you saying that they may then be alive? But what about the children and grandchildren of Ben? Certainly Cade would know of them if they were still alive. That, plus the fact that Cade is referred to as the "Last Skywalker" leads me to believe that all of Luke's descendants, at least, are dead except for Cade.
And even if they didn't want to "step on DR's toes (which they already have just by making Legacy so close to LotF), they still could have used a less central Jedi of Luke's era or a child of one of them (a child of Kam and Tionne, for example) instead of a prequel Jedi for the leader of the Jedi in the Legacy era.
Rigil_Kent :
Whew. I was afraid I was the only one who loathed Veitch's take on Skywalker.
Nope! You're definitely NOT the only one! You can ask JB! I've been ranting about DE for YEARS. I agree that DE was a "nightmare" and that it made NO sense after TLC. Luke was certainly not the cold, unfeeling character at the end of TLC that he was at the beginning of DE, and DE was supposed to take place just DAYS after TLC.
Not only did the return of Palpatine render Vader's self-sacrifice at the end of Endor irrelevant, it made the whole "balance of the Force" unbalanced again just a few years later. Plus, it made Luke into a liar too, as he said at the end of RotJ that he would never join the Emperor, yet in DE, he does just that. Now I know Luke only pretended to join the Emperor, but he took an awful risk, one he nearly lost. It was a really stupid decision on Luke's part.
Dawud786
It's not until later that Luke thinks of this being the very reason that Anakin Skywalker turned into Darth Vader: to conquer the dark side and the Sith from within. Of course, this is both Luke rationalizing his own gradual descent into darkness and rationalizing Anakin's fall.
I'm one who doesn't believe that Luke actually fell to the darkside in DE, though he was certainly foolish to think he could defeat the darkside from within, and he didn't act like himself. Luke was like an undercover agent in DE, doing his best to defeat the Emperor and his Forces, even sabotaging Imperial vehicles and sending the Alliance Imperial codes. While he did use the darkside power of Doppleganger, Luke didn't really do evil deeds.
I don't feel that Leia "redeemed" Luke, because I don't think Luke needed redemption. I think it was more that Leia "rescued" Luke in that she gave him hope again. Luke seemed to despair that he would ever be able to defeat Palpatine or get away from him, but by telling him that she had foreseen that Luke would train her children, it renewed Luke's hope and confidence. That was all it took to get him to duel and defeat the Emperor. Then Luke and Leia beat the Emperor and his Force storm with the Light.
As for TLC... you've got to bear in mind that DE and TTT were being written concurrently with each other and supposedly Zahn hated the idea of DE and didn't want to have to reference it in his story.
I'm aware of that, and I'm with Zahn. DE never should have been referenced in the novels. Until very recently, the events of the Marvel comics were never referenced in the novels. I don't understand why DE was either. DE negates much of RotJ, and no EU work should do that, in my opinion. DE should be an Infinities story.
I was just flipping through both the DE and DEII/EE TPBs.... I have to say, I think that whole Luke went because he wondered what attracted Vader to the dark side thing is complete and total fanon. Maybe KJA or someone else wrote that in a novel after DE, but it's not in DE.
Well, it IS in my copy of DE. When Luke is talking to Leia, he says, "But I had to do it, Leia. I had to know my father... I had to know why he chose the dark side."
xx_Anakin_xx
But I have to say Denning built Luke up in this last LOTF book as a pretty awe inspiring character, so in that respect: good job!
I hope you're right. I've heard conflicting opinions about Luke in Invincible.
Jedi Ben
Just because that is given as a reason does not preclude there being other, better reasons!
True, JB, but why is this the first reason he uses when he given an explanation to Leia about why he agreed to learn about the dark side?
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
|
Date Posted:
5/14 9:46pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
ChildOfWinds posted:
But what about the children and grandchildren of Ben?
Kol is most likely the one and only grandchild of Ben, and his father was probably Ben's only child.
We know that Ben has at least one son, but no reason to believe that he has any more children than that. Likewise, we have no reason to believe Kol had any siblings or cousins.
It wouldn't require any special explanation as to why Ben was dead in 130 ABY, and if one child died of causes other than old age during a mostly-peaceful century, that would be pretty normal, too, for a prominent Jedi. You're right, though, that if there were any more children and grandchildren of Ben, we probably should have seen them by now. The easiest explanation is that there never were any other children or grandchildren, just Kol and Kol's father, and Kol's father died sometime between Kol's birth and the Sith-Imperial War.
Occam's Razor suggests that Ben had one child, a son, who himself had one son - Kol Skywalker, who himself had one son - Cade Skywalker.
ChildOfWinds posted:
And even if they didn't want to "step on DR's toes (which they already have just by making Legacy so close to LotF), they still could have used a less central Jedi of Luke's era or a child of one of them (a child of Kam and Tionne, for example) instead of a prequel Jedi for the leader of the Jedi in the Legacy era.
Most authors have a corner of continuity that's their own, where there are characters that they themselves created or had a strong part in developing, and there are a lot of good reasons for that. Obviously, the really major characters - the Big Three, Vader, etc - are so big that everyone ends up having to deal with them, but the supporting players kind of end up "belonging" to one author or another.
From the fan's point of view, chances are that you prefer certain authors to other ones, which means you probably read more of their work than you read of other people's work, which means that you'd probably be interested in seeing those characters develop. Also, you probably get upset when other authors you don't like write characters that belong to writers you do like.
From the author's point of view, they get to keep developing characters and themes and such that they've been exploring and give more depth to their own contribution to the common continuity. You also want to avoid screwing up someone else's "pet" characters if you can avoid it, and it's just professional courtesy on a lot of levels to give other writers room to breathe with their characters.
-----signature-----
"Play is going to be for the 21st century what steam was to the 19th century."
Julian Dibbell
"You gotta love an elite killing force that you can fool by putting on a hat."
Gryph
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
|
Date Posted:
5/14 11:38pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
|
Of course, it's very possible Ben has 5-6 girls and his son has 5-7 girls too.
And Cade is still the Last Skywalker.
-----signature-----
Check out Halt Evil Doer!: The RPG setting for Super Heroes! Halt Evil Doer PDF: http://tinyurl.com/555axt
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
