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Topic:
SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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Scarran
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
5/15 3:04am
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
- Date Edited:
5/15 4:27am (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Scarran
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Cow how exactly how are they going to fund & train safely this mythical Jedi Order you keep bringing up when a) Jedi's names and faces are being broadcasted across the entire Empire as traitors to the New Order, b) there are massive bounties being offered by the Empire for Jedi dead or alive, C) there's apparently only a few hundred Jedi Survivors at best immediately after Order 66 was first sprung the majority of them are apparently Padawans with up to now only one Jedi Master from that time period explictly confirmed to have survived to have trained Kol and Cade Skywalker, D) Most importantly Jedi now have no legal authority to act that vanished when Palpatine declared them traitors, E) The two most powerful Force Users in the Galaxy who have millions of credits and troops at their disposal want them all dead or turned to the Dark Side and have set up an cadre of none Sith Lords and an entire Organisation solely for the purpose of corrupting or hunting down and killing Jedi and F) there's also the other organisations that would love the opportunity to settle old scores with Jedi ie Black Sun and the Hutt Crime Syndicates and now can even get paid to do so.
By the way why did you not starting complaining about Jedi Survivors when people like Kam Solusar or Ikrit from YJK showed up?
Hiding in the Unknown Regions would would be unlikely to save any Jedi as Palpatine had already made contact with Thrawn years before the Clone Wars and started channeling troops to that region of space long before the Rebellion had grown to the point where it could fight a war effectively.
On Wikipedia there's a list of Jedi who Survived Order 66 and their eventual fates. And there is only a handful of Jedi who survived to the Yuzzhan Vong War and most of them had very little to do with the Jedi Order so your argument that any of them could have rebuilt the Jedi Order is built on very flimsy foundations.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 4:50am
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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I'd like now to repudiate something that I am really starting to hate seeing amongst Luke fandom. The idea that there should be peace under Luke Skywalker.
Bantha poodoo!
Absolutely, 100% SHOCKED by the idea. It's disgusting because it ruins the most fundamental thing that should exist and that is Luke Skywalker running around saving the galaxy. The whole idea of Luke resting his laurels and becoming inactive because he's won looks good on paper but it also pretty much destroys any chance of interesting adventures. I for one am of the mind that Luke Skywalker is all that's standing in the way of the galaxy and oblivion.
Post-the Yuuzhan Vong, we should be seeing the galaxy on the verge of chaos at all times and Luke Skywalker doing his best to keep it under check. To continue a running theme this week, Luke Skywalker could learn a lot from Batman.
Basically, the simple fact is people are becoming way too meta about their stories. Instead of being happy that Luke Skywalker is out there, fighting crime, they are worried about the fact that the galaxy is a big source of chaos and evil.
Well DUH, it's the Star Wars Galaxy!
Gotham City is as close to Hell on Earth as exists in the DC Universe. It's police are corrupt, it's criminals are legion, its politicians are worse, and there's a large number of psychopaths freely able to wander the city. The city would have collapsed into anarchy like some cities in Africa have if not for the fact that Batman manages to keep the problems to a reasonably tolerable level so that citizens can grow up, go to school, have children, and die.
Star Wars isn't quite as bad but it's a PULP universe.
A Pulp Universe has the following qualities....
* Evil Alien Races.
Example: Killiks, Yuuzhan Vong, Yevetha, Chiss
* Secret Ancient Conspiracies
Example: The Sith
* Vastly powerful Criminal Sects (It's the 1930s recall?)
Example: Jabba the Hutt, Black Sun
* Cruel Foreign Governments.
Example: Hapans, Imperials, Chiss
* Giant Animal Monsters
Example: There's one in every Star Wars movie but ROTS!
* Weird Science!
Example: The Death Star, Nanovirus, Sun Crusher, etc
The point is not for Luke Skywalker to be able to defeat all these bad guys. That's because Luke's adventures would end.
From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker anyone?
Luke exists to hold back the tide of anarchy and chaos.
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Come see our alternate NJO: http://tinyurl.com/ycesjq Endor was like the Imperials being assaulted by a hundred Tolkien Dwarf Rangers with a body hair problem.
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Scarran
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
5/15 6:51am
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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I would argue that Bludhaven was worse than Gotham well at least until it got destroyed by the Society Of Supervillians.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:31am
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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Scarran posted:
I would argue that Bludhaven was worse than Gotham well at least until it got destroyed by the Society Of Supervillians.
Responded in the SOS Club thread.
http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=28003820&brd=10194&start=28462514
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
5/15 10:39am
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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ChildOfWinds posted:
Jedi Ben
Just because that is given as a reason does not preclude there being other, better reasons!
True, JB, but why is this the first reason he uses when he given an explanation to Leia about why he agreed to learn about the dark side?
Possibly because he's just got out of hell and hell is trying to grab him back the whole time? Luke isn't going to be that great with his words. In fact we now know what Luke underwent in the dark side was nothing like what happened to Vader, because Vader didn't have to be coerced into the dark side and kept there! The audio version of DE sketches a chilling picture of the ensorcellment Palpatine afflicts Luke with.
It's notable as Luke keeps talking, instead of dueling, he comes to assert himself more, using what he knows of the dark side from the inside against the Emperor. By the time the lightsaber duel starts, Luke's asserted himself and the dark side has no claim upon him.
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Other guy: Could I have your autograph?
Darth Vader: No, **** off or I'll kill you with a tray!
Give me penne all'arrabiata or you shall die!
And you and everyone in this canteen!
Death by tray it shall be!
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ChildOfWinds
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
5/15 12:37pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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dizfactor :
It wouldn't require any special explanation as to why Ben was dead in 130 ABY,
Well, yes it would, actually. Since the average life-expectancy is 120 and Jedi can live even longer, and since Ben is only 14 at the end of LotF, and Legacy takes place less than 100 years later, even Ben would have died early if he's not alive during Legacy.
I really want Luke to have more than one descendant by the time of Legacy. It bothers me that Cade is his only only one. I do like C's explanation of most of Luke's descendants being girls though. That does work.
And yes, I know that authors like to use their own original characters, but when using one really strains credibility, as KK does, then in my opinion, they shouldn't be used, and a new character should be created instead.
It would have been very easy to introduce a Jedi of Luke's era, or one trained by Luke, as the head of the Jedi Order. In fact, I wouldn't have minded if Wolf Sazen had been introduced as that character. It's the fact that a prequel era Jedi was used instead that annoys me.
Scarran : I'll admit that you brought up some good points in your post about why it would have been difficult to fund and train a Jedi Order after Order 66. However, this is a fantasy universe, and I think creative authors could have pulled it off. Luke himself started his Jedi Academy before the war against the Empire was completely finished. He found a world that was relatively uninhabited and away from the core. I think other Jedi could have done what Luke did, especially in the Unknown Regions (which is a huge place. Thrawn and company couldn't be everywhere.) or on a sparsely-populated world on the edge of the known galaxy. If the Sith of Legacy could do it, hiding out for so long, the Jedi could do it too. When they traveled in populated areas, disguises would have worked well. As for funding, a few wealthy Jedi families or friends of the Jedi could have helped out there.
I actually DID complain about survivors like Kam Solusar and Ikrit to friends of mine who also used to read the books. At the time I read about Kam and Ikrit though, I didn't even know that theForce.net existed. I said way back then that the survival of Kam and Ikrit diminished Luke and made Yoda into a liar.
And there is only a handful of Jedi who survived to the Yuzzhan Vong War and most of them had very little to do with the Jedi Order
Why didn't they come out of hiding and join the Order after the treaty with the Empire, if not before? Why didn't K'Kruhk help Luke?
Charlemagne19 :
I'd like now to repudiate something that I am really starting to hate seeing amongst Luke fandom. The idea that there should be peace under Luke Skywalker.
C, just because Luke would usher in a period of relative peace doesn't mean that there would never be any battles to fight or any people who needed saving. Luke could still have many adventures and explore new worlds, and could still stand against evil...just in much smaller arenas. Everything doesn't have to be a galaxy-spanning problem or conflict.
I truly don't like the idea of seeing the galaxy always on the verge of chaos all the time.
Jedi Ben
Possibly because he's just got out of hell and hell is trying to grab him back the whole time? Luke isn't going to be that great with his words.
Well, I guess I would have appreciated it if the author WOULD have let Luke be great with his words, make a profound statement of some sort, that made the whole thing worth while. 
And, yes, I liked the audio version of DE better, AND the endnotes of the early issues of DE. Those were better than the comic book itself, I think. Those notes made Luke sound like a true hero. I remember that there was some quote about when the times were darkest, the greatest Jedi (Luke) would appear.
By the time the lightsaber duel starts, Luke's asserted himself and the dark side has no claim upon him.
Well, as I keep saying, I don't feel that Luke was ever truly an evil darksider.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
5/15 12:43pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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 Not a single "  " to be seen!?
 
I approve of the new posting style, CoW. 
(Whenever I see more than one sad face in the same post, I start to get depressed. Colour me strange)
CoW posted:
C, just because Luke would usher in a period of relative peace doesn't mean that there would never be any battles to fight or any people who needed saving. Luke could still have many adventures and explore new worlds, and could still stand against evil...just in much smaller arenas. Everything doesn't have to be a galaxy-spanning problem or conflict.
I truly don't like the idea of seeing the galaxy always on the verge of chaos all the time.
Well said. 
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
5/15 1:08pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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COW,
Well, I guess I would have appreciated it if the author WOULD have let Luke be great with his words, make a profound statement of some sort, that made the whole thing worth while.
* When entrapped within the dark side and escape, not so good will you be! Actually though Luke does get that speech when he tells the Emperor he's driven by fear and isolation.
And, yes, I liked the audio version of DE better, AND the endnotes of the early issues of DE. Those were better than the comic book itself, I think. Those notes made Luke sound like a true hero. I remember that there was some quote about when the times were darkest, the greatest Jedi (Luke) would appear.
* Quite so.
Well, as I keep saying, I don't feel that Luke was ever truly an evil darksider.
* If he did go dark as people say, why did the Emperor need to basically sledgehammer him into dark-side slavery? The logical answer is he wasn't.
JB
-----signature-----
Other guy: Could I have your autograph?
Darth Vader: No, **** off or I'll kill you with a tray!
Give me penne all'arrabiata or you shall die!
And you and everyone in this canteen!
Death by tray it shall be!
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Lord_Hydronium
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:03pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
- Date Edited:
5/15 7:03pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lord_Hydronium
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ChildOfWinds posted:
Since the average life-expectancy is 120
Where's that from? The latest RPG rulebook says humans rarely live past 100.
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Swimming round inside 'em
And little midis have lesser midis
And so ad infinitum.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 7:08pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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C, just because Luke would usher in a period of relative peace doesn't mean that there would never be any battles to fight or any people who needed saving. Luke could still have many adventures and explore new worlds, and could still stand against evil...just in much smaller arenas. Everything doesn't have to be a galaxy-spanning problem or conflict.
I truly don't like the idea of seeing the galaxy always on the verge of chaos all the time.
I don't know.
I like the idea that the galaxy would be totally destroyed by the evils of the galaxy but Luke single handily holds civilization together.
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Come see our alternate NJO: http://tinyurl.com/ycesjq Endor was like the Imperials being assaulted by a hundred Tolkien Dwarf Rangers with a body hair problem.
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Nobody145
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
5/15 8:21pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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Lord_Hydronium posted:
ChildOfWinds posted:
Since the average life-expectancy is 120
Where's that from? The latest RPG rulebook says humans rarely live past 100.
I thought that kind of thing was quoted often from somewhere during the lead-up to LotF, to justify why old men like Han Solo and Boba Fett are still kicking butt. How did they put it? "Those two can still kick butt, they just feel it more than they used to the next day" or something like that. Which has led to some people asking where all the old Rebellion characters are during the Legacy era, since if most humans can make it to 120, and the Skywalkers are all strong with the Force, if not Luke, at least Ben should easily still be around in 137 ABY. Mainly its just another of LotF's stupid retcons/changes, since I thought before LotF, GFFA humans didn't live that much longer than earth normal. And mainly because they haven't really come up with anybody to take Luke, Han or Leia's places in terms of big plots, novel-wise.
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Randy1012
Registered:
Jan '07
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Date Posted:
5/15 8:43pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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I remember Leia mentioning to Han in one of the early LOTF books, or maybe DN, that Han still had a good thirty years left, forty if he took care of himself...
Maybe it was forty/fifty. I wish I could remember now...
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/15 9:14pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
- Date Edited:
5/15 9:17pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Charlemagne19
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The Truce at Bakura character of Eppie lasted 200 years.
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Lord_Hydronium
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 9:16pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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Rarely live past 100. There are always exceptions.
-----signature-----
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Swimming round inside 'em
And little midis have lesser midis
And so ad infinitum.
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 11:43pm
Subject:
RE: SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)
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ChildOfWinds posted:
dizfactor :
It wouldn't require any special explanation as to why Ben was dead in 130 ABY,
Well, yes it would, actually. Since the average life-expectancy is 120 and Jedi can live even longer, and since Ben is only 14 at the end of LotF, and Legacy takes place less than 100 years later, even Ben would have died early if he's not alive during Legacy.
The whole 120 year lifespan seems to be a fan exaggeration of a few things that DR editors had said at some point. The average human lifespan in the GFFA appears to be 90-100 or so.
ChildOfWinds posted:
I really want Luke to have more than one descendant by the time of Legacy. It bothers me that Cade is his only only one.
You are strangely obsessed with large families.
Charlemagne19 posted:
The Truce at Bakura character of Eppie lasted 200 years.
That's been retconned as Bakuran years, which are shorter than standard years.
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