Jedi Council Forums - Sexism and the Empire...

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Thrawn McEwok Title: TFN EU Staff Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 4/6/08 5:36pm Subject: Sexism and the Empire... - Date Edited: 4/6/08 5:48pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Thrawn McEwok
	"Do you think it might be time to have our first female Moff?" - Gilad Pellaeon, Star Wars: Legacy of the Force: Revelation, p. 215 I'm going to assume that the Old Man of the Empire was going senile, because not only had he had a female Moff on the Council for several years, but when he was Teradoc's second-in-command they gave an ImpStar to a female Moff, and - as I just found today - there was even a perfectly legitimate female Moff standing on the bridge of her Star Destroyer at the height of the New Order before Endor. Now, that's only three female Moffs, but a glance through Wookieepedia suggests that a lot of Moffs aren't actually given a defined gender in canon. Was Moff Shargael a girl? Moff Carlinson? How about Grand Moff Gann? I'm further going to suggest that two other high-ranking Imperial women may also have been ex officio female Moffs as well: Director of Intelligence Ysanne Isard and, since she wears what looks like a version of Imperial uniform, media baroness and Interim Ruling Council member Mahd Windcaller. I can also think of a female general and female admiral (no, not Daala or Tavira, and not Moff Reyn either), plus a number of female captains (Plikk from Marvel comes to mind, commanding an entire Star Destroyer fleet), and a VERY significant number of female TIE pilots. For reference, TIE pilots represent the top couple of percent of the officer corps, and within that context, Shira Brie and Myrette Davani graduated first and second in the prestigious Coruscant Pilot Institute - a feeder school for the TIE program on Carida - in 0 ABY, and the Empire's two most elite fighter squadrons, Black Eight and the 128th, were both led by women, Juno Eclipse and Kasan Moor. There is a certain paternalistic sexism to the Empire, inherited from the Old Republic: in Heir to the Empire, Pellaeon feels that a Star Destroyer is no place for a woman, and places the girls alongside the conscripts as a weak element in Chimaera's crew. But, on the other hand, I don't think there's dramatic sexism in the Empire - it's more to do with the unconscious sexism of real-world authors, and the general social attitudes George presented among Core Worlds humans in his Galaxy. However, in his earliest notes for people writing stories to tie-in to his new movie in 1977, George Lucas even said there were female stormtroopers. Heck, perhaps crews and units were segragated - somewhere out there, there might be an all-girl Star Destroyer? - The Imperial Ewok -----signature----- A/T = OTP :===8[#]8===: Kyp/Jaina fans: stand up and be counted!
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Trip Registered: Dec '03	Date Posted: 4/6/08 5:48pm Subject: RE: Sexism and the Empire...
	Perhaps more importantly, the only individuals I can think of who claim to be victims of institutional sexism are incompetents looking for a scapegoat. -----signature----- RIP Jacen's Crotch 1991 - 2008
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Lord_Hydronium Title: Literature Gardener Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 4/6/08 5:51pm Subject: RE: Sexism and the Empire... - Date Edited: 4/6/08 5:52pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Lord_Hydronium
	Thrawn McEwok posted: I can also think of a female general and female admiral (no, not Daala or Tavira, and not Moff Reyn either), plus a number of female captains (Plikk from Marvel comes to mind, commanding an entire Star Destroyer fleet), and a VERY significant number of female TIE pilots. There's another female admiral, unnamed, from Overkill (set 9 months ABY). -----signature----- Great midis have little midis Swimming round inside 'em And little midis have lesser midis And so ad infinitum.
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Ulicus Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 4/6/08 5:52pm Subject: RE: Sexism and the Empire...
	Uli does the MILK chant, just to lower the tone -----signature----- This is an imaginary story... aren't they all supposed to fit together, though? An animated cartoon about Obi-Wan and Padawan Anakin would have made more sense. Recipient of Golden Ewok™ and Golden EwokTrooper™
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 4/6/08 6:02pm Subject: RE: Sexism and the Empire...
	But, on the other hand, I don't think there's dramatic sexism in the Empire - it's more to do with the unconscious sexism of real-world authors, and the general social attitudes George presented among Core Worlds humans in his Galaxy. Isn't one of the main reasons that Fel is overthrown is he lacks a male heir? By modern standards, isn't that VIRULENT sexism?
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LtNOWIS Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 4/6/08 6:11pm Subject: RE: Sexism and the Empire... - Date Edited: 4/6/08 6:14pm (1 edits total) Edited By: LtNOWIS
	The Japanese might see it differently, Charles. And, people are okay with Calixte being the head of Imperial Intelligence. Just as they were okay with Yssanne Isard generations before. Anyways, this List of Imperial women was made in part to be a resource for threads like this. It's pretty inclusive, but it doesn't have the unnamed admiral in Boba Fett: Overkill. -----signature----- A little bit about me: http://tinyurl.com/bnmcck
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Jedi_Master_Dude_man Registered: Apr '08	Date Posted: 4/6/08 6:36pm Subject: RE: Sexism and the Empire...
	this is my first post ever. i created this profile to say just this one thing..... an all-female star destroyer [b]YEEEHHHHAAAAAWWWWW!!!!!!! i'll buy that book for sure. remember the female character who worked for the empire in I, Jedi? was she a moff? i think even some members within the empire new better than to play the sexist card. Mara Jade was at a pretty important level early in her career. as far as female stormtroopers go i totally believe it. maybe throw in some alien species of both genders and you'll have stormtroopers that could actually hit what they shoot(ala OT). daala does not have a good track record from what i remember in previous series. anyone think her return will bring her some luck this time? yeehaw!!
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GrandAdmiralJello Title: Emperor • EUC • JCC Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 4/6/08 7:08pm Subject: RE: Sexism and the Empire...
	Charlemagne19 posted: But, on the other hand, I don't think there's dramatic sexism in the Empire - it's more to do with the unconscious sexism of real-world authors, and the general social attitudes George presented among Core Worlds humans in his Galaxy. Isn't one of the main reasons that Fel is overthrown is he lacks a male heir? By modern standards, isn't that VIRULENT sexism? I'm not sure that Darth Krayt gives a colorful expletive about whether Sia wears a skirt or not. -----signature----- SPQR Vates Jυλιαδις Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque - Ennius Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento; hæ tibi erunt artes; pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos - Virgil
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 4/6/08 7:16pm Subject: RE: Sexism and the Empire...
	GrandAdmiralJello posted: Charlemagne19 posted: But, on the other hand, I don't think there's dramatic sexism in the Empire - it's more to do with the unconscious sexism of real-world authors, and the general social attitudes George presented among Core Worlds humans in his Galaxy. Isn't one of the main reasons that Fel is overthrown is he lacks a male heir? By modern standards, isn't that VIRULENT sexism? I'm not sure that Darth Krayt gives a colorful expletive about whether Sia wears a skirt or not. Well the Moff Council clearly does.
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Robimus Registered: Jul '07	Date Posted: 4/6/08 7:18pm Subject: RE: Sexism and the Empire...
	Jedi_Master_Dude_man posted: Daala does not have a good track record from what I remember in a previous series. Anyone think her return will bring her some luck this time? I really hope Daala has very little to do with the Empire this time around. I will give her credit for re-uniting the Empire a long while back, but past that she made one total screw up after another. I think she got the rank of Admiral because she was Tarkin's lady. I'm sure in her own mind she thought she was a victim of sexism, but really the evidence all points to her simply being incompetent. And the point about Mara Jade is a very good one. I'd also guess there were Imperial Advisors who were women. Marvel was way ahead of its time as far as the Empire goes, with both women and aliens serving as well as Lumiya created to be a central villian. I loved their creativity even if some things were a bit too cartoony for my tastes. -----signature----- I am forever seeking the damutek of Hooley Krekk Oh, woe! Oh, misery! Oh, unhappiness. Hooley Krekk where are you? . http://www.cccomiccon.com http://www.actionfigurenews.ca
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NelanisGhost Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 4/6/08 8:40pm Subject: RE: Sexism and the Empire...
	I think it's merely due to the laziness of the continuity dept. I think the continuity dept consists of a maintenance closest and a dirty old mops. No one's home anymorel -----signature----- If there's a bright center of the galaxy, you're on the planet it's farthest from: Earth Our own stunning bright center: http://astrosurf.com/sguisard/Pagim/GC.html Barnes and Noble: TFU hardcover. Nice! $5.98 in discount section.....
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Charlemagne19 Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 4/6/08 8:44pm Subject: RE: Sexism and the Empire...
	For me, I think Timmy Zahn established the Empire was sexist. Then they made Daala the only female Admiral. Then they made Isard the highest ranking woman in the Empire. And now people are just being moronic with all the women and aliens in the Empire.
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NelanisGhost Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 4/6/08 8:52pm Subject: RE: Sexism and the Empire... - Date Edited: 4/6/08 9:43pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Havac
	Tim Zahn didn't establish that. I think the movies DID. When did you see any girls anyway? Only Leia. I don't see how that has anything whatsoever to do with the topic at hand. -----signature----- If there's a bright center of the galaxy, you're on the planet it's farthest from: Earth Our own stunning bright center: http://astrosurf.com/sguisard/Pagim/GC.html Barnes and Noble: TFU hardcover. Nice! $5.98 in discount section.....
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TogashiAikune Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 4/6/08 9:42pm Subject: RE: Sexism and the Empire...
	Charlemagne19 posted: For me, I think Timmy Zahn established the Empire was sexist. Then they made Daala the only female Admiral. Then they made Isard the highest ranking woman in the Empire. And now people are just being moronic with all the women and aliens in the Empire. Zahn also established that the Clone Wars were the Republic against insane clones. Maybe people are realizing Zahn's not the be-all and end-all after seeing two of Palpatine's closest aides were an alien and a woman in the Prequel trilogy. -----signature----- Kyle/Jan, Antares/Sia and Syn/Gunn Yage Shipper Star Wars Comics > Star Wars Novels Kyle Katarn > Every Mandalorian 5/29/07: Victory Against Mara Jade Anti-Mara, Anti-Thrawn and Anti-Omega Squad
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patchworkz7 Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 4/6/08 9:47pm Subject: RE: Sexism and the Empire...
	TogashiAikune posted: Zahn also established that the Clone Wars were the Republic against insane clones. Maybe people are realizing Zahn's not the be-all and end-all after seeing two of Palpatine's closest aides were an alien and a woman in the Prequel trilogy. Zahn could only work with what he had at the time. And what he had was handed to him via LFL. So it's hard to really blame him for anything, and I don't think anyone is saying he's the be-all and end-all, someone was just pointing to the person they felt kickstarted a lot of the tone for the EU as unified canon that we know it. The problem is that there have always been discrepencies, and they are multiplying as the franchise grows, and as different sectors of the franchise tell their stories their ways and ignore or contridict (knowingly and not) what has come before. -----signature----- Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house Now in German and Polish Editions! James A Gilmer
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GrandAdmiralJello Title: Emperor • EUC • JCC Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 4/6/08 9:52pm Subject: RE: Sexism and the Empire...
	Err, Zahn established nothing of the sort. Remember Dark Force Rising had a scene where Mara Jade was disguised as an Imperial pilot and wore a simple jumpsuit without flightgear or mask? Did any stormtroopers or officers think this was unusual in the least? No. As for the mofference, well, what they think is immaterial. -----signature----- SPQR Vates Jυλιαδις Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque - Ennius Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento; hæ tibi erunt artes; pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos - Virgil
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