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Topic:
The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/12 3:00am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Rouge77 posted:
They are just making excuses for their own lousy behaviour towards Jacen.  I mean, if Han would be correct, Allana wouldn't be Jacen's daughter, but Caedus'. 
What? Have we entered the touchy feely world where parents have to be there 24-7 for their kids to be good parents? I went to boarding school and rarely saw my father growing up. However, I was well fed. We made the most of the time we had together. Overall, I count myself lucky.
Fans will find any excuse for making the fault not on Darth Caedus.
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Come see our alternate NJO: http://tinyurl.com/ycesjq Endor was like the Imperials being assaulted by a hundred Tolkien Dwarf Rangers with a body hair problem.
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JadedSkycrawler
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
5/12 3:33am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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I don't really understand the negative remarks that pop up ever so often concerning Han & Leia's parenting methods...like Allana's surely doomed or something.  Because really, Jaina's turned out alright. Anakin probably would have as well, as I'd thought at the time during NJO that he was setting up to be a pretty decent jedi. Yeah, Jacen turned out pretty disappointing [cough* very disappointing *cough] but I truly think he began his descent towards Sithdom w/ good intentions, and he wasn't always all bad- actually quite likable for awhile there.
So 2 out of 3's not too shabby, eh? 
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Magnuskn
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
5/12 3:51am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Charlemagne19 posted:
What? Have we entered the touchy feely world where parents have to be there 24-7 for their kids to be good parents? I went to boarding school and rarely saw my father growing up. However, I was well fed. We made the most of the time we had together. Overall, I count myself lucky.
Fans will find any excuse for making the fault not on Darth Caedus.
QFT. I am going to be 33 soon, and while I am making lots of errors ( like wasting my time on messageboards, for example ^^ ), I´d be insulted if someone would suggest that those errors are somehow my parents fault, for not swooping in and giving me a stern talking to, or somesuch.
Give it up for self-determination, people. ^^
Magnus
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Rouge77
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
5/12 7:19am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
5/12 7:21am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Rouge77
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JadedSkycrawler posted:
I don't really understand the negative remarks that pop up ever so often concerning Han & Leia's parenting methods...like Allana's surely doomed or something. Because really, Jaina's turned out alright. Anakin probably would have as well, as I'd thought at the time during NJO that he was setting up to be a pretty decent jedi. Yeah, Jacen turned out pretty disappointing [cough* very disappointing *cough] but I truly think he began his descent towards Sithdom w/ good intentions, and he wasn't always all bad- actually quite likable for awhile there.
So 2 out of 3's not too shabby, eh?
Anakin died on a suicide mission as a teenager, a mission which was approved by his parents, who didn't help Jaina when she had her mild Dark Side trip and didn't raise a finger to help Jacen to heal after he escaped YV nor redeem Jacen when he went dark. And Jaina became a killer of her own brother. So, I think that Allana as a ward of the Solos is doomed. I don't usually agree with Traviss, but when it comes to Leia&Han as parents, she is right.
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Lumiyas_Head
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
5/12 7:50am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Jacen wasn't a child when he turned to the Dark Side, he was an adult. Why should we blame Leia and Han for Jacen's decision to turn to the Dark Side? Jacen wasn't without morals, the morals he was raised with, however, were corrupted by Vergere and Lumiya. He made the conscious decision to turn the Dark Side and become a Dark Lord.
When you raise Jedi children, you raise them knowing that one day they could be asked to sacrifice their life for the greater good. It's not about family or blood, its about the Force. A Jedi isn't selfish and knows that one day his life could be called upon to serve the will of the Force. Sometimes hard decisions are thrust upon us, the Solos and the Skywalkers have gotten their fair share of it...
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kiera2
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
5/12 7:59am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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JadedSkycrawler posted:
I don't really understand the negative remarks that pop up ever so often concerning Han & Leia's parenting methods...like Allana's surely doomed or something. Because really, Jaina's turned out alright. Anakin probably would have as well, as I'd thought at the time during NJO that he was setting up to be a pretty decent jedi. Yeah, Jacen turned out pretty disappointing [cough* very disappointing *cough] but I truly think he began his descent towards Sithdom w/ good intentions, and he wasn't always all bad- actually quite likable for awhile there.
Seriously. Anakin and Jaina turned out great, and Jacen had great intentions, he just got a little lost along the way.
But I still think that's beside the point. Both twins are waaaay past the point where their parents should need to take care of them, even by the end of NJO. Don't forget that Luke and Leia were only teenagers themselves when they were heroes of the Rebellion.
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GrandMasterKatarn
Registered:
Feb '08
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Date Posted:
5/12 8:19am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Rouge77 posted:
JadedSkycrawler posted:
I don't really understand the negative remarks that pop up ever so often concerning Han & Leia's parenting methods...like Allana's surely doomed or something. Because really, Jaina's turned out alright. Anakin probably would have as well, as I'd thought at the time during NJO that he was setting up to be a pretty decent jedi. Yeah, Jacen turned out pretty disappointing [cough* very disappointing *cough] but I truly think he began his descent towards Sithdom w/ good intentions, and he wasn't always all bad- actually quite likable for awhile there.
So 2 out of 3's not too shabby, eh?
Anakin died on a suicide mission as a teenager, a mission which was approved by his parents, who didn't help Jaina when she had her mild Dark Side trip and didn't raise a finger to help Jacen to heal after he escaped YV nor redeem Jacen when he went dark. And Jaina became a killer of her own brother. So, I think that Allana as a ward of the Solos is doomed. I don't usually agree with Traviss, but when it comes to Leia&Han as parents, she is right.
I agree.
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"Expletive: Damn it, master, I am an assassination droid... not a dictionary!" - HK-47
"My first apprentice was a female Twi'lek named Jaden Korr" - Kyle Katarn
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RebelGrrl
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 9:22am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Rouge77 posted:
Anakin died on a suicide mission as a teenager, a mission which was approved by his parents, who didn't help Jaina when she had her mild Dark Side trip and didn't raise a finger to help Jacen to heal after he escaped YV nor redeem Jacen when he went dark. And Jaina became a killer of her own brother. So, I think that Allana as a ward of the Solos is doomed. I don't usually agree with Traviss, but when it comes to Leia&Han as parents, she is right.
Anakin died on a mission he was determined to lead and execute no matter what his parents thought about it. His parents were not leaders in the Jedi Order. The mission had the approval and sanction of the Jedi Order, re: his uncle Luke. With that approval, there was really nothing Han and Leia could do to stop it. They certainly weren't cheering and overjoyed for all three of their children to go on this mission.
Han and Leia didn't help Jaina on her toe-dip into the Dark Side because they couldn't. I think Han would have actually agreed with some of the actions she took had he known the details, and that could only have made things worse, not better. Her relationship with Leia was in the typical rocky period that a lot of daughters have with their mothers during that age and made worse by it being a time of war and conflict. Cross out Leia as being able to help without exacerbating the problem.
Jaina wanted to use Kyp, which gave Kyp an in-road into stopping her slide.
As for Jacen: to get help or accept help for a problem, you must first admit that you have one. Jacen did not admit this. He did not look for help and he did not accept help, and he shut everyone out from seeing that there was something wrong that he might actually need help with, including and especially Jaina. Jaina cannot be blamed for not helping someone who did not want it, seek it, and refused to accept it. Instead of getting the help he needed, Jacen went on a five year journey. He was fully an adult and no one could stop him from this, or force him to get any help.
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You can't fix stupid and you can't reason with crazy.
Happiness is a warm Hoojib!
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GrandMasterKatarn
Registered:
Feb '08
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Date Posted:
5/12 9:43am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
5/12 9:46am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
GrandMasterKatarn
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RebelGrrl posted:
Rouge77 posted:
Anakin died on a suicide mission as a teenager, a mission which was approved by his parents, who didn't help Jaina when she had her mild Dark Side trip and didn't raise a finger to help Jacen to heal after he escaped YV nor redeem Jacen when he went dark. And Jaina became a killer of her own brother. So, I think that Allana as a ward of the Solos is doomed. I don't usually agree with Traviss, but when it comes to Leia&Han as parents, she is right.
Anakin died on a mission he was determined to lead and execute no matter what his parents thought about it. His parents were not leaders in the Jedi Order. The mission had the approval and sanction of the Jedi Order, re: his uncle Luke. With that approval, there was really nothing Han and Leia could do to stop it. They certainly weren't cheering and overjoyed for all three of their children to go on this mission.
Han and Leia didn't help Jaina on her toe-dip into the Dark Side because they couldn't. I think Han would have actually agreed with some of the actions she took had he known the details, and that could only have made things worse, not better. Her relationship with Leia was in the typical rocky period that a lot of daughters have with their mothers during that age and made worse by it being a time of war and conflict. Cross out Leia as being able to help without exacerbating the problem.
Jaina wanted to use Kyp, which gave Kyp an in-road into stopping her slide.
As for Jacen: to get help or accept help for a problem, you must first admit that you have one. Jacen did not admit this. He did not look for help and he did not accept help, and he shut everyone out from seeing that there was something wrong that he might actually need help with, including and especially Jaina. Jaina cannot be blamed for not helping someone who did not want it, seek it, and refused to accept it. Instead of getting the help he needed, Jacen went on a five year journey. He was fully an adult and no one could stop him from this, or force him to get any help.
But you have not denied that Allana is doomed. And that KT might have it right; Han&Leia as parents and ward of Allana is a bad thing. No good will come of it.
I smell bad, bad karma. 
-----signature-----
Revan+Bane+Exile = Kyle Katarn
"Expletive: Damn it, master, I am an assassination droid... not a dictionary!" - HK-47
"My first apprentice was a female Twi'lek named Jaden Korr" - Kyle Katarn
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RebelGrrl
Registered:
Jan '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 9:54am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
5/12 9:59am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
RebelGrrl
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GrandMasterKatarn posted:
But you have not denied that Allana is doomed. And that KT might have it right; Han&Leia as parents and ward of Allana is a bad thing. No good will come of it.
Lack of denial does not equal agreement. However, by citing that Han and Leia are not culpable for their children's ADULT choices and decisions, or for factors outside their direct control, it can be logically concluded that I do not agree that Allana is doomed.
I don't recall reading any direct quote from KT about Han, Leia, AND Allana. This isn't really a conversation about how KT does or does not feel about the issue. I'm also not saying that Han and Leia were the galaxy's most perfect parents ever. Show me a perfect parent and I will laugh in your face, frankly.  If you want to see the galaxy's worst parent ever, I give you Boba Fett.
I think that Han and Leia are going to do what most parents do when given a second chance. They are going to try to correct any mistakes they perceive they have made with Jaina, Jacen, and Anakin. And they are going to do what they have always done, which is the best they can in the circumstances in which they find themselves.
What Allana does after the age of self-responsibility is entirely up to her. Her fate is not yet set for Doom or Glory.
As for karma, I don't think it means what you think it means. 
Han and Leia do not control Allana's karma. Allana does. What actions Allana takes determine her path in life.
wikipedia posted:
Through the law of karma, the effects of all deeds actively create past, present, and future experiences, thus making one responsible for one's own life, and the pain and joy it brings to him/her and others.
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Well-behaved women seldom make history.
You can't fix stupid and you can't reason with crazy.
Happiness is a warm Hoojib!
EUCNN Reporter for the GFA
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Emperor_Time
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
5/12 10:30am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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I am pretty sure that Allana will turn out just fine.
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GrandMasterKatarn
Registered:
Feb '08
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:23am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
5/12 11:26am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
GrandMasterKatarn
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Emperor_Time posted:
I am pretty sure that Allana will turn out just fine.
Don't be so sure. We all thought the same of Jacen.
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Revan+Bane+Exile = Kyle Katarn
"Expletive: Damn it, master, I am an assassination droid... not a dictionary!" - HK-47
"My first apprentice was a female Twi'lek named Jaden Korr" - Kyle Katarn
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NewStaryknight
Registered:
Dec '07
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:26am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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^^We also thought Jaina would turn out fine and she has for the most part. Anakin did to before he died.
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Emperor_Time
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
5/12 11:34am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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NewStaryknight posted:
^^We also thought Jaina would turn out fine and she has for the most part. Anakin did to before he died.
I agree with this. 
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That Zayne is Shmi's ancestor theory for the win.
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dp4m
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
5/12 12:40pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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GrandMasterKatarn posted:
Emperor_Time posted:
I am pretty sure that Allana will turn out just fine.
Don't be so sure. We all thought the same of Jacen.
I don't think anyone reasonably thought that since the personality swap at the beginning of the NJO.
Although, to be COMPLETELY fair, no one thought the same of *Jaina* either since there was the inexplicable hatred of her mother out of nowhere in Vector Prime...
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