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Topic:
The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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NelanisGhost
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 1:23pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
5/12 1:28pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
NelanisGhost
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Han and Leia didn't help Jaina on her toe-dip into the Dark Side because they couldn't. I think Han would have actually agreed with some of the actions she took had he known the details, and that could only have made things worse, not better. Her relationship with Leia was in the typical rocky period that a lot of daughters have with their mothers during that age and made worse by it being a time of war and conflict. Cross out Leia as being able to help without exacerbating the problem.
If anyone failed here, it was HER MASTER, Mara. And Luke. Please recall that Han's agry protest against Myrkr was met by Luke's disinterested shrug. (They're Jedi, deal with it, I'm going to play footsie with my wife, so get over it...)
Luke and Mara neglected Jaina, Tahiri, Alema, Tenel Ka. They are the ones that didn't do anything to help the victims, none of them, of the Myrkr mission. All the kids were too young, unprepared, and Luke is personally responsible. They all came out of it heavily scarred or dead. Luke and Mara were too busy playing tonsil tennis to barely notice anything but how the YV invasion affected them. They were pretty selfish. They seem to shun girls. Mara is one of thoie women that can't stand other women around, thinking them competition. I didn't care for her behavior in NJO at all. She was horrible, mean and the badly written. Luke was a sappy love struck teen. They were the worst aspect of the NJO, IMO, most of the series.
I think Allana is going to parallel Nomi Sunrider in greatness.
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Solus
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 3:15pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Can someone post the exact quote of when Jaina tells her parents that she felt Jacen, not Caedus at the end? If so that would be great.
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Emperor_Time
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
5/12 3:34pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Solus posted:
Can someone post the exact quote of when Jaina tells her parents that she felt Jacen, not Caedus at the end? If so that would be great.
I agree that would be great to read. 
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Rouge77
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
5/12 3:36pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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NelanisGhost posted:
I think Allana is going to parallel Nomi Sunrider in greatness.
And I think that some creative team at DR few years onwards will decide that she will go dark just like her dad did because they haven't got any other member of the family available to go dark, no precious Skywalker or Fel can be sacrificed, and they just want to do another fall to the Dark Side -story. Perhaps they can sell it by claiming that the Solo legacy will now come to full circle when Allana will follow her father's footsteps to the Dark Side. 
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Emperor_Time
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
5/12 3:46pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Rouge77 posted:
NelanisGhost posted:
I think Allana is going to parallel Nomi Sunrider in greatness.
And I think that some creative team at DR few years onwards will decide that she will go dark just like her dad did because they haven't got any other member of the family available to go dark, no precious Skywalker or Fel can be sacrificed, and they just want to do another fall to the Dark Side -story. Perhaps they can sell it by claiming that the Solo legacy will now come to full circle when Allana will follow her father's footsteps to the Dark Side.
I am not hearing you. 
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/12 3:46pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
5/12 3:47pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Charlemagne19
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Anakin died on a suicide mission as a teenager, a mission which was approved by his parents, who didn't help Jaina when she had her mild Dark Side trip and didn't raise a finger to help Jacen to heal after he escaped YV nor redeem Jacen when he went dark. And Jaina became a killer of her own brother. So, I think that Allana as a ward of the Solos is doomed. I don't usually agree with Traviss, but when it comes to Leia&Han as parents, she is right.
1. It's war. 16 year olds went to war in WW2 and Anakin was the best qualified.
2. Caedus should have been killed by Han and Leia. It was their responsibility to avenge their son's death. Darth Caedus murdered their son.
3. Good for Jaina.
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Rouge77
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
5/12 4:31pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
5/12 4:32pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Rouge77
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Charlemagne19 posted:
1. It's war. 16 year olds went to war in WW2 and Anakin was the best qualified.
Anakin was nowhere near best qualified. Any Jedi Master would have been more qualified. Like Luke Skywalker, whose cowardly behaviour has now cost the lives of both of his nephews.
Charlemagne19 posted:
2. Caedus should have been killed by Han and Leia. It was their responsibility to avenge their son's death. Darth Caedus murdered their son.
Nonsense. Jacen was their son to the end. They failed him before he failed them, multiple times, and they were sane, not him, in Invincible. Even when he had already died they continued their betrayal, by claiming that he hadn't died then, but years before. Like always, Leia&Han are incapable of taking the responsibility for their own mistakes.
Charlemagne19 posted:
3. Good for Jaina.
No, very bad for Jaina. She made herself the killer of her own brother because of her own free will. Nobody forced her to do it. It was her own choice. And a wrong one, based on the spoilers. She stained herself for the rest of her probably rather brief remaining life.
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Solus
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 4:34pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Rouge77 posted:
[quote=Charlemagne19]1. It's war. 16 year olds went to war in WW2 and Anakin was the best qualified.
Anakin was nowhere near best qualified. Any Jedi Master would have been more qualified.
Charlemagne19 posted:
2. Caedus should have been killed by Han and Leia. It was their responsibility to avenge their son's death. Darth Caedus murdered their son.
Nonsense. Jacen was their son to the end. They failed him before he failed them, multiple times, and they were sane, not him, in Invincible. Even when he had already died they continued their betrayal, by claiming that he hadn't died then, but years before. Like always, Leia&Han are incapable of taking the responsibility for their own mistakes.
Charlemagne19 posted:
3. Good for Jaina.[quote=Charlemagne19]
No, very bad for Jaina. She made herself the killer of her own brother because of her own free will. Nobody forced her to do it. It was her own choice. And a wrong one, based on the spoilers. She stained herself for the rest of her probably rather brief remaining life.
People seem unable to realize that it actually was Jacen who did that. Caedus did not kill him, he simply turned into an evil person by choice.
On another note can someone post the quote of Jaina telling her parents that she felt Jacen, not Caedus, after he is killed?
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/12 5:01pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Anakin was nowhere near best qualified. Any Jedi Master would have been more qualified. Like Luke Skywalker, whose cowardly behaviour has now cost the lives of both of his nephews.
They HAD a Jedi Master along with them, Ganner the useless.
Nonsense. Jacen was their son to the end. They failed him before he failed them, multiple times, and they were sane, not him, in Invincible. Even when he had already died they continued their betrayal, by claiming that he hadn't died then, but years before. Like always, Leia&Han are incapable of taking the responsibility for their own mistakes.
I don't get what you're saying. Jacen Solo died in the Dark Nest. He was killed by Darth Caedus.
No, very bad for Jaina. She made herself the killer of her own brother because of her own free will. Nobody forced her to do it. It was her own choice. And a wrong one, based on the spoilers. She stained herself for the rest of her probably rather brief remaining life.
Yes, it was tragic but it wasn't like Caedus hadn't earned it a million times over. I hope continuity is bad enough Jaina just gets over it.
:-)
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Solus
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 5:12pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Charlemagne19 posted:
I don't get what you're saying. Jacen Solo died in the Dark Nest. He was killed by Darth Caedus.
No, Jacen decided to become Darth Caedus. He did not die. He became a bad person. I wish it hadn't happened because he was my favorite character but there is no point in denying what happened.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/12 5:17pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Solus posted:
Charlemagne19 posted:
I don't get what you're saying. Jacen Solo died in the Dark Nest. He was killed by Darth Caedus.
No, Jacen decided to become Darth Caedus. He did not die. He became a bad person. I wish it hadn't happened because he was my favorite character but there is no point in denying what happened.
Next you'll be saying that Anakin Skywalker wasn't killed by Darth Vader.
I go with the literalness of what Obi Wan said.
When Jacen made his foolish choice, the good man that was Jacen was destroyed.
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Solus
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 5:24pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
5/12 5:27pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Solus
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Charlemagne19 posted:
Solus posted:
Charlemagne19 posted:
I don't get what you're saying. Jacen Solo died in the Dark Nest. He was killed by Darth Caedus.
No, Jacen decided to become Darth Caedus. He did not die. He became a bad person. I wish it hadn't happened because he was my favorite character but there is no point in denying what happened.
Next you'll be saying that Anakin Skywalker wasn't killed by Darth Vader.
I go with the literalness of what Obi Wan said.
When Jacen made his foolish choice, the good man that was Jacen was destroyed.
Actually that is true. I believe that Anakin became Darth Vader and that saying he died is simply a way of making it easier on yourself. But the circumstances with Anakin were different than with Jacen. Anakin made an impulsive decision without time to think. But he was still Darth Vader, he did not die he became evil. Jacen waited a few weeks and then decided so he consciously became evil.
EDIT: Obi-wan was close to Anakin so he was simply refusing to believe that Anakin became evil. Jacen's family could not accept that Jacen did this so they were in denial.
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NelanisGhost
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 5:33pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Are you having some sort of breakdown, Charl?
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/12 5:37pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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NelanisGhost posted:
Are you having some sort of breakdown, Charl?
No.
When you become a Sith, you're destroyed by the Dark Side.
Jacen Solo didn't just become Caedus.
He died.
Everything in him that was human was annihilated and he became a monster.
It's like vampirism.
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Solus
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 5:42pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Charlemagne19 posted:
NelanisGhost posted:
Are you having some sort of breakdown, Charl?
No.
When you become a Sith, you're destroyed by the Dark Side.
Jacen Solo didn't just become Caedus.
He died.
Everything in him that was human was annihilated and he became a monster.
It's like vampirism.
If everything human in him was annihilated then how did he still love Allana? And how did Anakin save Luke if Anakin was dead?
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