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Topic:
The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/12 5:45pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Solus posted:
If everything human in him was annihilated then how did he still love Allana? And how did Anakin save Luke if Anakin was dead?
Miracle.
:-)
Yes, the soul of Jacen Solo somehow penetrated the thing inhabiting his body and made one last effort to overthrow his possession.
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RK_Striker_JK_5
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
5/12 5:47pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Charlemagne19 posted:
Solus posted:
Charlemagne19 posted:
I don't get what you're saying. Jacen Solo died in the Dark Nest. He was killed by Darth Caedus.
No, Jacen decided to become Darth Caedus. He did not die. He became a bad person. I wish it hadn't happened because he was my favorite character but there is no point in denying what happened.
Next you'll be saying that Anakin Skywalker wasn't killed by Darth Vader.
I go with the literalness of what Obi Wan said.
When Jacen made his foolish choice, the good man that was Jacen was destroyed.
Oh, please. That totally relieves those who Fell of responsibility. Anakin=Vader. JINO=Caedus. I go with Obi-Wan trying to soften the blow Luke must've been feeling.
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Solus
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 5:51pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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RK_Striker_JK_5 posted:
Charlemagne19 posted:
Solus posted:
[quote=Charlemagne19]I don't get what you're saying. Jacen Solo died in the Dark Nest. He was killed by Darth Caedus.
No, Jacen decided to become Darth Caedus. He did not die. He became a bad person. I wish it hadn't happened because he was my favorite character but there is no point in denying what happened.
Next you'll be saying that Anakin Skywalker wasn't killed by Darth Vader.
I go with the literalness of what Obi Wan said.
When Jacen made his foolish choice, the good man that was Jacen was destroyed.
Oh, please. That totally relieves those who Fell of responsibility. Anakin=Vader. JINO=Caedus. I go with Obi-Wan trying to soften the blow Luke must've been feeling.[/quote]
Exactly. It is just a way for those close to Jacen and Anakin to avoid the fact that their loved one is now evil. It makes them out to be a victim instead of a villain.
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Charlemagne19
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/12 5:55pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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RK_Striker_JK_5 posted:
Oh, please. That totally relieves those who Fell of responsibility. Anakin=Vader. JINO=Caedus. I go with Obi-Wan trying to soften the blow Luke must've been feeling.
Nah, Caedus was stupid and so was Anakin.
They were dominated by the One Ring of the Dark Side.
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Lumiyas_Head
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
5/12 6:01pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Solus posted:
[On another note can someone post the quote of Jaina telling her parents that she felt Jacen, not Caedus, after he is killed?
JAINA: I was just thinking of...of what Caedus sacrificed. At the end, there was a second when he just stopped fighting so he could warn Tenel Ka. I think he became Jacen again for a second before I...before I killed him.
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RK_Striker_JK_5
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
5/12 6:06pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Charlemagne19 posted:
RK_Striker_JK_5 posted:
Oh, please. That totally relieves those who Fell of responsibility. Anakin=Vader. JINO=Caedus. I go with Obi-Wan trying to soften the blow Luke must've been feeling.
Nah, Caedus was stupid and so was Anakin.
They were dominated by the One Ring of the Dark Side.
Yeah, they were stupid. Doesn't mean they change into someone else.
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E-married to the wonderful DarthIshtar. Now also her Padawan. Member of the Y.J.K. Revolution Staring into the Darkness http://boards.theforce.net/beyond_the_saga/b10477/27537567/p1/?23
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Furyan_Jedi_13
Registered:
May '07
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Date Posted:
5/12 6:15pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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I don't think anyone reasonably thought that since the personality swap at the beginning of the NJO.
Although, to be COMPLETELY fair, no one thought the same of *Jaina* either since there was the inexplicable hatred of her mother out of nowhere in Vector Prime...
Ah crap! Now you've made me want to go read Vector Prime! 
I've actually been wanting to avoid the whole NJO because the characters I was so familiar with seemed to have had their personalities replaced with something negative and annoying in those books.
Oh well. I suppose it will help me understand what crappy direction they have been going down.
Sorry for being bitter, but I loved the Bantam era, and what happened to the characters at the hands of Del Rey just makes me sick.
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Sniper_Wolf
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/12 6:51pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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GrandMasterKatarn posted:
Emperor_Time posted:
I am pretty sure that Allana will turn out just fine. 
Don't be so sure. We all thought the same of Jacen. 
Stockholm Syndrome.
The only bad thing Han and Leia did was not putting Jacen in an asylum after his return from captivity.
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Darth-Ghost
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
5/12 6:56pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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I remember that Jacen was psychologically evaluated after returning, and all the NR doctors said he was fine. It's the doctor's fault!
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kiera2
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
5/12 7:32pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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So if Han and Leia get all the blame for Jacen's fall, do Owen and Beru get all the credit for Luke's deeds?
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DARKAURUM
Registered:
Jan '02
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Date Posted:
5/12 8:25pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Heya everyone. Long time board member but haven't posted in Lit in forever.
Well, I bought "Betrayal" a while back and I'm glad I stopped there. Right away when Jacen killed Nelani, I could not keep reading the books. I could not keep feeding them money. I knew where it was going to end - Jacen's death. I just read along with the spoilers on the internet through the whole series. I invested so much time and energy into the NJO series, and was ultimately disappointed. I couldn't go through that again with this series.
Solus:
"
People seem unable to realize that it actually was Jacen who did that. Caedus did not kill him, he simply turned into an evil person by choice."
True, Solus. For all you "Caedus killed Jacen" apologists, Jacen pretty much turned to the dark side when he murdered Nelani in cold blood. And that's in the first book, way before he decided to become Caedus.
I'm just sad that they killed Jacen and that this was his ultimate fate. It really puts a downer on the old Bantam novels, especially the hopeful moment when Jacen and Jaina were born in "The Last Command", back in 1991, me thinks. I wonder what Timothy Zahn thinks of this series. They kill off three of his characters in this series: Palleon, Mara Jade and Jacen.
What's more, all three characters deserved happy endings after all the struggles they went through.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the "legacy" of this series for me is that I finally understand the movie-only purists. I mean, this endless hell of conflict, death, and the dark side. What was the point of the Original Trilogy anyway, if the galaxy ended up like this?
The best time I had in the Expanded Universe in the last 5-7 years was playing as "Jaden Korr" in Jedi Academy (video game). Just being a Jedi Knight for a while, running around the galaxy, keeping the peace. What a great Star Wars experience, and it never once undermined what Luke and gang achieved in the movies.
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kiera2
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
5/12 8:33pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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DARKAURUM posted:
I'm just sad that they killed Jacen and that this was his ultimate fate. It really puts a downer on the old Bantam novels, especially the hopeful moment when Jacen and Jaina were born in "The Last Command", back in 1991, me thinks. I wonder what Timothy Zahn thinks of this series. They kill off three of his characters in this series: Palleon, Mara Jade and Jacen.
What's more, all three characters deserved happy endings after all the struggles they went through.
QFT.
(I don't mean to spam, but that really does sum things up nicely.)
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NewStaryknight
Registered:
Dec '07
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Date Posted:
5/12 8:36pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
5/12 8:53pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
NewStaryknight
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Emperor_Time posted:
Rouge77 posted:
NelanisGhost posted:
I think Allana is going to parallel Nomi Sunrider in greatness.
And I think that some creative team at DR few years onwards will decide that she will go dark just like her dad did because they haven't got any other member of the family available to go dark, no precious Skywalker or Fel can be sacrificed, and they just want to do another fall to the Dark Side -story. Perhaps they can sell it by claiming that the Solo legacy will now come to full circle when Allana will follow her father's footsteps to the Dark Side. 
I am not hearing you. 
Just ignore him Time. He's more than likely never going to be optimistic about anything DR does again. To me that is the real disappointing thing about this book. Denning had the chance to really change the way the disenchanted fans of SW who've hated the novels since NJO look at books that come after it, but instead it seems that Invincible has just made things worse for them. Now people like Rouge here think their seuth sayers and know for an undisputed fact that DR will repeat themselves and Allana will become the next threat rather than the next hope, and that Jaina will most certainly become the Empress of the Imperial Remnant that she'll definently be the one who starts the IK's, even though that may not be the plan what so ever.
Way back before DNT began a lot of fans thought they knew for sure that Jacen was going to simply be a Grey Jedi when he came back and one day start his own Order. Before LOTF began and all throughout the series till Sacrafice everybody thought they knew that Luke or one of the Big 3 was going to die and that Ben was going to be Jacens Sith apprentice. And just before this book came out I heard lots of people say they knew they wouldn't dare kill off another Solo son and that they'd kill Jaina before that happend.
Imagine what we'll all think we will know tomorrow. The truth is nobody can know anything about what these publishers and authors got up their sleeves until after the series has actually come out and gotten started and even then nobody can be sure they know where the story is headed. I had plenty of theories of why I didn't think they were going to kill any of the Big 3 off in this series but that doesn't mean I couldn't have been wrong and it was that uncertainty that kept me in suspense and thats why I kept reading. Its as simple as that.
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Queengodess
Registered:
Jul '00
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Date Posted:
5/12 9:08pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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RK_Striker_JK_5 posted:
Charlemagne19 posted:
RK_Striker_JK_5 posted:
Oh, please. That totally relieves those who Fell of responsibility. Anakin=Vader. JINO=Caedus. I go with Obi-Wan trying to soften the blow Luke must've been feeling.
Nah, Caedus was stupid and so was Anakin.
They were dominated by the One Ring of the Dark Side.
Yeah, they were stupid. Doesn't mean they change into someone else.
This might be kind of a pointless post, but I realy want to express my full support for RK_Striker_JK_5 (man, that's a hard name to write...  ) and Solus. To me, the whole point (from an interesting storytelling point of view) of a fall to the dark side (and in Anakin's case redemption) is lost if Anakin and Vader, or Jacen and Caedus, are not the same persons. Good people do turn bad, good people can do horrible things.
Gee. This really did turn out to be rather pointless, but it's only six in the morning - what do you expect?
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Emperor_Time
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
5/12 9:52pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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NewStaryknight posted:
Emperor_Time posted:
Rouge77 posted:
[quote=NelanisGhost]I think Allana is going to parallel Nomi Sunrider in greatness.
And I think that some creative team at DR few years onwards will decide that she will go dark just like her dad did because they haven't got any other member of the family available to go dark, no precious Skywalker or Fel can be sacrificed, and they just want to do another fall to the Dark Side -story. Perhaps they can sell it by claiming that the Solo legacy will now come to full circle when Allana will follow her father's footsteps to the Dark Side.
I am not hearing you.
Just ignore him Time. He's more than likely never going to be optimistic about anything DR does again. To me that is the real disappointing thing about this book. Denning had the chance to really change the way the disenchanted fans of SW who've hated the novels since NJO look at books that come after it, but instead it seems that Invincible has just made things worse for them. Now people like Rouge here think their seuth sayers and know for an undisputed fact that DR will repeat themselves and Allana will become the next threat rather than the next hope, and that Jaina will most certainly become the Empress of the Imperial Remnant that she'll definently be the one who starts the IK's, even though that may not be the plan what so ever.
Way back before DNT began a lot of fans thought they knew for sure that Jacen was going to simply be a Grey Jedi when he came back and one day start his own Order. Before LOTF began and all throughout the series till Sacrafice everybody thought they knew that Luke or one of the Big 3 was going to die and that Ben was going to be Jacens Sith apprentice. And just before this book came out I heard lots of people say they knew they wouldn't dare kill off another Solo son and that they'd kill Jaina before that happend.
Imagine what we'll all think we will know tomorrow. The truth is nobody can know anything about what these publishers and authors got up their sleeves until after the series has actually come out and gotten started and even then nobody can be sure they know where the story is headed. I had plenty of theories of why I didn't think they were going to kill any of the Big 3 off in this series but that doesn't mean I couldn't have been wrong and it was that uncertainty that kept me in suspense and thats why I kept reading. Its as simple as that.[/quote]
I agree that nothing is certain except for the Ben and Kol connection that is. 
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