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Topic:
The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Earthknight
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
5/13 8:44pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Looks like Jacen got his wish. He united the galaxy...he had to sacrifice himself to darkness and insanity to achieve it though.
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Master to jacensolofangirl2007  Our philosophy: We strive for a 100 in awesomeness. And if we get a 90, it's still cool. ~My Fanfiction Stories~ The Guardians of Light- http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=259245
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Xiphos
Registered:
Dec '07
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Date Posted:
5/13 8:45pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Here are my various thoughts:
CAEDUS IS DEAD! I'm sad to see Jacen Solo die, but happy as hell to see Caedus die. I was almost ready for some tragic irony by book end, but that plot twist with Allana not being dead ruined that hope.
Daala being named Chief of State was a definate suprise. I can't see her staying long.
Was a great book, I seriously couldn't put it down. I loved how my opinion of how bad ass Luke is just went up and I didn't think it could. Seriously, is there anything the guy CAN'T do?
I found Mirta to be slightly annoying during her major scenes in the book. I was glad to see her thaw a little in Revelation, but it had the apperance that it never happened in Invincable.
The Legacy comic set up is seriously there. You have to be blind to not notice it.
What happened to Zekk should've been explained, but not explaining it leaves it open for the next book.
Found Ben's absence in vast majority of the book to be suprising, and I was glad I was home while I was reading the seduction scene because I could not keep a straight face. Was funny on some level.
I found Caedus' death to be kind of sad. He dies with nobody around him that really cares for him, and I'm not talking about what Jaina feels, and dies thinking of Tenel Ka and Allana.
Wasn't that bad a series overall.
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Best moment of Legacy of the Force:
"Don't get killed, Dad. You know what it did to Fett. I don't want to end up like him."
"Fithly rich?"
"No, polishing my dad's old ship and hassiling Uncle Han."
- Luke & Ben Skywalker
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YodaKenobi
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
5/13 8:46pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
5/13 8:54pm (4 edits total)
Edited By:
YodaKenobi
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patchworkz7 posted:
Didn't want to mess up the review thread with this, but someone posted this exchange that's supposedly from INVINCIBLE:
Boba and Leia posted:
"We know how they treated the clones."
"Probably because they had a sense of who the clones were really serving," Leia countered. "Blind obedience deserves even less respect than mercenary-"
Now, I actually like the idea of Leia and Boba trading verbal blows, and I like the idea of Leia taking Boba to task for his crappy politics, but that line doesn't actually make sense. The clone soldiers served the Jedi. They were 100% loyal. Saying that any bad behavior (like Vos' constant use of "CLONE!" instead of calling a soldier by name or number) is because they somehow sensed that the clones would ultimately turn on their generals and end up gunning down the Jedi is...stretching things a little.
And, of course, the whole thing just seems slightly out of character for Leia, unless she's woefully misinformed on how the CW era soldiers operated.
Yeah, the clones eventually become the stormtrooper corps, but the early generations were lied to and used just as badly as anyone, and were twisted into a weapon from birth by Sideous and his behind the scenes planning. Even GL makes it out to be a tragedy. The clones thought that the Jedi had turned on the Republic, and there's room for some great debate there, and if Denning was going to broach it I wish he had gone in a bit harder on it and deeper than that.
I don't understand your complaint. The clones were constructed to be blindly obedient. And their loyalty certainly wasn't to the Jedi Knights.
As for Leia's characterization... Would you rather she was eating ice cream and kicking it around town as if she didn't have a care in the world? 
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patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/13 8:50pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Sniper_Wolf posted:
Edit
Patch, that exchange is in the novel. The actual fact of if Leia is right or wrong is not the point. Leia's rebuttal helps counteract the "Traviss says Mandalorians are god" accusations. Of importance to this novel is Denning is the first author to use Boba and the Mandos after Traviss' massive expansion of the bucketheads. I really enjoyed Leia not taking the Boba/Mando POV as gospel.
Understood, but with ALL the stuff Boba has come out with over the novels, that's just an odd thing to go after.
Maybe it's because I really want to see Leia dig into Boba with all claws out and cut him down in true movie form and the point seems a bit...unfocused, but I take your point.
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Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
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Sniper_Wolf
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/13 8:54pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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patchworkz7 posted:
Sniper_Wolf posted:
Edit
Patch, that exchange is in the novel. The actual fact of if Leia is right or wrong is not the point. Leia's rebuttal helps counteract the "Traviss says Mandalorians are god" accusations. Of importance to this novel is Denning is the first author to use Boba and the Mandos after Traviss' massive expansion of the bucketheads. I really enjoyed Leia not taking the Boba/Mando POV as gospel.
Understood, but with ALL the stuff Boba has come out with over the novels, that's just an odd thing to go after.
Maybe it's because I really want to see Leia dig into Boba with all claws out and cut him down in true movie form and the point seems a bit...unfocused, but I take your point.
If it's any consolation Leia is stopped midsentence by Jaina to have the two quit arguing. I did enjoy how Boba and the other Mandos make it clear this is a "enemy of my enemy is my ally" type deal instead of "Oh we forgive you Jedi lets go drink a beer after the war" type situation.
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I name you Sword of the Jedi. Always you shall be in the front rank, a burning brand to your enemies, a brilliant fire to your friends.
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patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/13 8:57pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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YodaKenobi posted:
I don't understand your complaint. The clones were constructed to be blindly obedient. And their loyalty certainly wasn't to the Jedi Knights.
It was right up until the end, and the "constructed" argument is one I don't have a real desire to get into again, but my point was more that I wanted Leia to lay into Boba for his more recent transgressions in the way that only Leia can.
I have to admit that I miss the Leia that served as the voice of reason with a cutting edge, and Denning tends to write her best in this regard (despite Allston stating that Traviss got the harsh side of Leia down, I don't agree) and I wish that Denning had allowed Leia to really go after Boba for some of the really crappy stuff he's pulled in playing his long game against the GA.
The freaking clones just seem like a side issue.
If there's more to the argument, awesome, because I'd love it if Leia tore into Boba (and Daala for that matter...and Niathal, come to think of it). I was just mostly wondering if that scene was actually from the novels or if someone was making something up in the other thread.
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Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
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patchworkz7
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/13 8:59pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Sniper_Wolf posted:
If it's any consolation Leia is stopped midsentence by Jaina to have the two quit arguing. I did enjoy how Boba and the other Mandos make it clear this is a "enemy of my enemy is my ally" type deal instead of "Oh we forgive you Jedi lets go drink a beer after the war" type situation.
Bummer.
I always like it when Leia goes off on someone, especially when they deserve it.
And Denning is one of the authors who manage to not write Leia like a shrew.
I wish, given her history, Leia had been given some time to weigh in on the galactic political situation at the end of the novel (especially Nithal and Daala), but so it goes. With any luck we'll get to see her take on some of that in the MF novel.
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Original Fiction & essays "Does God Limp?" in HOUSE UNAUTHORIZED http://www.smartpopbooks.com/allbooks/2007.html#house "All Her Suicides" appears in: Vestal Review #31 Winter Issue On Sale Now
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Darth_Monopoly
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
5/13 9:01pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Well, I just pointlessly read through this whole thread, which took longer than the book itself (not really, I skimmed over the pointless argument), and came to this conclusion: People don't agree on things. But wait! I already knew that! Its because people have different opinions and tastes!
Anyways....
For those of you that have read the book, were any of you reminded of Kill Bill in the first Jaina/Caedus fight?
I'm of course talking about when she slices Jacen's arm off with the Star Wars equivalent of a katana and blood sprays over her. I had this mental image of Caedus standing there with blood spewing from his shoulder like water from a fire hydrant. Awesome.
Also....
What are your favorite parts from the book?
Mine would have to be from the Ben sidestory, with the Zels. I'm talking about the Fogblaster and Ben contemplating getting drunk, and of course, the whole conversation between Ben and one of the twins (don't remember which one) about peeking during his shower.
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YodaKenobi
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
5/13 9:03pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
5/13 9:06pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
YodaKenobi
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patchworkz7 posted:
YodaKenobi posted:
I don't understand your complaint. The clones were constructed to be blindly obedient. And their loyalty certainly wasn't to the Jedi Knights.
It was right up until the end, and the "constructed" argument is one I don't have a real desire to get into again, but my point was more that I wanted Leia to lay into Boba for his more recent transgressions in the way that only Leia can.
I have to admit that I miss the Leia that served as the voice of reason with a cutting edge, and Denning tends to write her best in this regard (despite Allston stating that Traviss got the harsh side of Leia down, I don't agree) and I wish that Denning had allowed Leia to really go after Boba for some of the really crappy stuff he's pulled in playing his long game against the GA.
The freaking clones just seem like a side issue.
If there's more to the argument, awesome, because I'd love it if Leia tore into Boba (and Daala for that matter...and Niathal, come to think of it). I was just mostly wondering if that scene was actually from the novels or if someone was making something up in the other thread.
All Palpatine said was "Execute Order 66", meaning it was an order they had in place and went over in preparation. So their loyalty was not to the Jedi, but to a Sith Lord. That's the horror of that scene. That these aren't good soldiers. These are the sort of people who will butcher children on a word from their master.
And Boba seems to be the one who brings up the clones. Why would Leia reply about Boba's transgressions? That's not really the way dialogue should flow.
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Earthknight
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
5/13 9:06pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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IMO Ben steals the show in the book. He may have very little page time but when he is shown he rules. He's becoming what all the NJO should become. But sadly the NJO are stuck in Terminator mode especially Jaina.
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Master to jacensolofangirl2007 Our philosophy: We strive for a 100 in awesomeness. And if we get a 90, it's still cool. ~My Fanfiction Stories~ The Guardians of Light- http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=259245
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Nobody145
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
5/13 9:09pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Technically, I think the clones' loyalty was to the Republic, and unfortunately by that point Palpatine was essentially the Republic, Commander in Chief and all that. The clones were loyal to the Jedi I think because the Jedi represented the Republic, but someone higher up, and they made a point of saying that all clone armies were under the control of the Republic during RotS, then they'll obey orders.
I do wish they could've laid into Boba Fett a bit more, but at least Han and Leia got the chance to trade barbs with Boba a little, compared to how one-sided most Traviss books are. I thought Denning did pretty good with the Mandos and the language and all that stuff.
Luke kinda threw me off with how cold-blooded he was for most of the book, but guess it had to be done. And at the time, I didn't appreciate how good a job NJO did in its finale with The Unifying Force, and how it tied up most of the character stories, and only now do I appreciate how good that book was, and how the end of this book falls so far short. It reminds me of the endings of various other LotF novels, with how they just... end, and that's it. I had hoped when the finale came, we would have a more defined ending, but no such luck. And leaving the aftermath to another book that's outside of the series just seems really lazy to me.
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Sniper_Wolf
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/13 9:12pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
5/13 9:14pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Sniper_Wolf
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Darth_Monopoly posted:
What are your favorite parts from the book?
Mine would have to be from the Ben sidestory, with the Zels. I'm talking about the Fogblaster and Ben contemplating getting drunk, and of course, the whole conversation between Ben and one of the twins (don't remember which one) about peeking during his shower.
The entire sequence from Jaina getting shot out of blasboat through the end of the first Jaina/Caedus duel. Caedus finally shows he is credible when using the shatterpoint technique (and an inside nod to Stover), Jaina blocking the grenade with the Mandalorian corpse, and Caedus shrugging off his arm getting cut off is fun to read. Really this book is full of really memorable moments and one liners. The crewmen of Anakin Solo calling Caedus Darth Maniac read like a nice nod to the fans that wasn't gratuitous. See guys, when the book has less filler there's way more to talk and praise about.
Nobody145, are you a Potter fan? I've heard similar complaints about Deathly Hollows' ending, and I wonder if you felt the same way.
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I name you Sword of the Jedi. Always you shall be in the front rank, a burning brand to your enemies, a brilliant fire to your friends.
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YodaKenobi
Title: TFN EU Staff
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
5/13 9:12pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
5/13 9:13pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
YodaKenobi
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Nobody145 posted:
Technically, I think the clones' loyalty was to the Republic
If that were the case they would have stopped serving Palpatine when he turned the Republic into the "Galactic Empire." They aren't the same thing. Their loyalty to Sidious superseded their loyalty to the Republic and certainly any loyalty to the Jedi or inherent human decency.
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JadedSkycrawler
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
5/13 9:21pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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and of course, the whole conversation between Ben and one of the twins (don't remember which one) about peeking during his shower.
lol. How old are these girls??? Sheesh.
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"All the darkness in the world cannot extinguish the light of a single candle." -Francis of Assisi
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Darth_Monopoly
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
5/13 9:25pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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JadedSkycrawler posted:
and of course, the whole conversation between Ben and one of the twins (don't remember which one) about peeking during his shower.
lol. How old are these girls??? Sheesh.
They seemed to be just a few years older than Ben. I think 10 years younger than Tenel Ka, but I may wrong.
It was nice to see some humor interjected into this dark, but very good, story. And Ben seemed to enjoy it too.
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