Author Topic: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
Rouge77 
Registered: May '05
7726_Jacen Solo
Date Posted: 6/23 12:31pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
Lucas didn't order the killing, he just said that Anakin couldn't be the hero because of the aforementioned reason. DR wanted to kill one of the Solo boys in NJO, and as they couldn't make Anakin the hero, they killed him and tried to make Jacen the hero.

And now they have killed Jacen too and the Solo name with him. I find WOTC's "Jacen Skywalker" mistake both sad and funny, a good example of the Skywalker centrism in the current EU, where the writer of the article made Jacen a Skywalker as he couldn't apparently comprehend that anyone but a Skywalker could have such a big role. What would be a good name for this disease that is crippling the EU? Skywalkeriasis?

 

-----signature-----
Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!!
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
marmkid 
Registered: Apr '01
Date Posted: 6/23 12:42pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed) - Date Edited: 6/23 12:43pm (1 edits total) Edited By: marmkid
Nobody145 posted:

If in the upcoming Millenium Falcon novel Luke still has visions of oncoming darkness, then that means that he was wrong about his own fall, and that he had several decades worth of warning about the One Sith, but hasn't really prepared for them either. Unless there are that many Sith, darksiders, or just in general evil things still coming to bother Luke and the galaxy in the next few decades, which considering the publisher, is quite likely. And frankly, I don't like the post-LotF status quo, so I hope the galaxy falls to pieces again quite soon. Not that the galaxy's really worth saving, but meh, I still like to read Star Wars, so can't help myself.


i dont know if you can say that Luke hasnt prepared for the One Sith, or any threat
you do that by training the jedi the best you can and getting things in order to face anything
Luke has done that as well as can be expected

i do like your idea about Luke misinterpretting the dark visions and getting rid of the whole "tainted" aspect of Invincible.

i think a cool way for Luke to die would be him going on missions to find this "darkness" that has been clouding his visions, after realizing it wasnt a dark side taint. then a number of years into the future, he discovers the One Sith and what they have done, and somehow sacrifices himself to warn the rest of the galaxy (similar to Obi Won in ANH)
at least then he wouldnt be considered a fool for having this all happen on his watch

not really up on all the Legacy comics, so that might not (and probably doesnt) fit into the timeline of things

 

Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Nobody145 
Registered: Feb '07
42495_Zayne
Date Posted: 6/23 2:34pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
I just think there's a difference between "you never know when something might pop up, so everybody keep training, and also help make the galaxy a better place" and "I sense a darkness, a rising, very powerful darkness in the Force... everybody, time to go hunt it down!". What I mean is, Luke and his New Jedi Order are suposed be ever vigilan, but if Luke has constant visions of a coming darkness for years up until his death, and he never figures out why or where they're coming from, then that means Luke probably sensed the One Sith decades ahead of the Legacy comics, but never did anything. And its not like the One Sith are hidden on some obscure planet, they're on Korriban, one of the major Sith worlds, so sending someone to check on the planet occasionally wouldn't be that bad of an idea. Although with the Legacy comics, we know the One Sith rise to take over the galaxy eventually, but in there, its implied that they stayed mostly hidden until a few decades before the comics. Here, they're out and about in the galaxy, one of them was undercover as a Confederation intelligence operative and the Jedi never sensed a thing, and they blow up Vectivus' asteroid, and they never chase down that ship (though it would've been very difficult too, but if Han and Leia want to find something, they can do a lot).

Anyway, the history leading to the Legacy comics still a bit vague, as they're still filling in that era, but so far, it doesn't seem like anybody expected the Sith until they emerged on the galactic stage, even though they knew someone had sabotaged the Ossus project, but if the Jedi had had forewarning of the Sith from Luke, it probably would've been obvious who sabotaged the Ossus project.

And yeah, I think I heard that Lucas only said Anakin couldn't be the main hero of the NJO, then Del Rey decided to make Jacen the hero and kill Anakin. And now they've killed Jacen too, finishing off the Solo line (since its very likely Jaina's family name isn't going to be continued after she gets married).

And though the Sith are in charge in 137 ABY, the Legacy comics are still highly recommended.

 

-----signature-----
Don't mind me, I'm nobody important.
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
marmkid 
Registered: Apr '01
Date Posted: 6/23 5:58pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
Nobody145 posted:
I just think there's a difference between "you never know when something might pop up, so everybody keep training, and also help make the galaxy a better place" and "I sense a darkness, a rising, very powerful darkness in the Force... everybody, time to go hunt it down!". What I mean is, Luke and his New Jedi Order are suposed be ever vigilan, but if Luke has constant visions of a coming darkness for years up until his death, and he never figures out why or where they're coming from, then that means Luke probably sensed the One Sith decades ahead of the Legacy comics, but never did anything. And its not like the One Sith are hidden on some obscure planet, they're on Korriban, one of the major Sith worlds, so sending someone to check on the planet occasionally wouldn't be that bad of an idea. Although with the Legacy comics, we know the One Sith rise to take over the galaxy eventually, but in there, its implied that they stayed mostly hidden until a few decades before the comics. Here, they're out and about in the galaxy, one of them was undercover as a Confederation intelligence operative and the Jedi never sensed a thing, and they blow up Vectivus' asteroid, and they never chase down that ship (though it would've been very difficult too, but if Han and Leia want to find something, they can do a lot).

Anyway, the history leading to the Legacy comics still a bit vague, as they're still filling in that era, but so far, it doesn't seem like anybody expected the Sith until they emerged on the galactic stage, even though they knew someone had sabotaged the Ossus project, but if the Jedi had had forewarning of the Sith from Luke, it probably would've been obvious who sabotaged the Ossus project.

And yeah, I think I heard that Lucas only said Anakin couldn't be the main hero of the NJO, then Del Rey decided to make Jacen the hero and kill Anakin. And now they've killed Jacen too, finishing off the Solo line (since its very likely Jaina's family name isn't going to be continued after she gets married).

And though the Sith are in charge in 137 ABY, the Legacy comics are still highly recommended.



i agree with that
if Luke continues to have visions of darkness for the next 20 or 30 years of his life, yes, it would be his fault for not finding what was the cause

but if it ends now, i think he was under the impression he was viewing any darkness brought about by Caedus
if the visions were to stop, or severely lessen, i dont see any reason why he would go out chasing these visions

he definitely hasnt failed the jedi or anyone up to the end of LOTF
beyond that we will see

though i dont see why they would make Luke a sucker just to set up the legacy comics

 

Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
brodiew 
Registered: Oct '05
6593_Luke Skywalker
Date Posted: 6/25 8:22am Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
Would anyone be willing to link me a detailed summary of Invincible?

 

-----signature-----
Challenge me. I need the inspiration.
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
DarthBoba 
Registered: Jun '00
8187_Luke Skywalker
Date Posted: 6/25 8:32am Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Invincible_(novel)

 

-----signature-----
Neils Bohr:
prize-winning physicist,
Olympic medalist,
costumed superhero.
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
brodiew 
Registered: Oct '05
6593_Luke Skywalker
Date Posted: 6/25 8:45am Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
Thanks, DarthBoba, but that link gave no detailed summary of the novel.

 

-----signature-----
Challenge me. I need the inspiration.
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
Darth-Ghost 
Registered: Oct '03
23041_Anakin's Ghost<br>Hayden
Date Posted: 6/25 9:28am Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
This isn't detailed, but from memory:

-Jaina and Boba are with the Verpine, when the Imperials attack
-Jaina is distrustful of Fett, remembering his conversation with Daala, but they're allies
-The Imperials unleash a nanokiller that kills all Verpine warriors, and they take over
-Jaina decides it's time to ask the Jedi Council for permission for her to assasssinate Jacen, they already thought about choosing her to do it and agree, even her parents and Luke
-Ben goes to meet Lon Shevu on Coruscant to find Jacen's location, finds he's going to visit the Imperials on the Verpine asteroid, Nickel One, where Jaina was
-Tahiri captures Ben, Leia and Jaina forced to leave him, they find out Luke foresaw Ben's capture all along
-Luke is using the Force to cloud Jacen's visions, so he thinks Luke is coming after him instead of Jaina
-the Jedi and allies go to attack Nickel One, with Luke tricking the Mandalorians, and they drop Jaina to the asteroid
-she encounters Mirta and the Mandalorian squad, who want to kill the Moffs with Jacen
-Jacen appears and kills all Mandalorians but Mirta, as Jaina is taking sniper shots, uses shatterpoint to break invincible Mandalorian armor
-Jaina duels Jacen, but he thinks Jaina is Luke until near the end because of Luke's force illusions, Jaina cuts his arm off with Mandalorian sword and escapes, with his blood stained on her face
-Tahiri has Ben torured, then tries to get the location of the Jedi base by pretending she'd sleep with him if he did. She then torures Shevu to try and get him to talk, but overdoes it and he dies. Ben escapes Coruscant with help of Tenel Ka's secret cousins, but Isolder is captured by Jacen.
-Jacen has already found out the location of the secret Jedi base on his own, his blood he attached to Jaina is a Nightsister Blood Trail, which he can sense through the Force where Jaina is.
-Jacen is bringing the Moffs under his control, the Confederation is near defeat, Niathal's fleet has been destroyed. If he can defeat the Jedi and Hapans in this battle, he's basically won the galaxy. He also has Mandalore bombarded, and the Imperials release a nanokiller that would kill Fett, and anyone related to him, so they can never return to Mandalore.
-Jaina and Zekk are used as bait to lure Jacen's fleet, but stuff goes wrong. Zekk disappears. Jaina boards the Anakin Solo.
-Jacen learns the Moffs think he's insane, and are going to use Isolder's blood to create a nanokiller to kill Tenel Ka and Allana. Jacen orders them not to, and goes to free Isolder before they can take his blood.
-Isolder thinks he's been using by Jacen to infect them with the nanokiller when Jacen goes to free him, which isn't true, but because he's not cooperating Jacen snaps his neck and decides to dispose of his body instead.
-Then he learns they have already taken a sample from Isolder, and a nanokiller is on the way to Tenel Ka's flagship. He is about to go warn her and save Allana, but then he finally runs into Jaina.
-Jacen and Jaina have a fierce duel, Jacen tries to get her to stop fighting and wasting time so he cansave Allana, Jaina thinks it's a trick and keeps fighting. She stabs Jacen in the gut, and cuts his Achilles' tendon, and then stabs him through the heart to kill him as she thinks she's about to die herself.
-She feels Jacen being Jacen again just a moment before he dies, as he's force screaming to Tenel Ka to save Allana and warn her.
-Ben redeems Tahiri, Jacen had earlier told her that flow walking can't change the past only your memory of it, almost tells her that he himself had tried to save Anakin using Flow Walking once but failed. Tahiri decides to get captured.
-Jag, and Hana and Leia, find Jaina hugging Jacen's dead body
-Everyone believes the nanokiller killed Allana
-Luke lets the Moffs live, but they must report to Jag, which brings the Imperial Remnant under Jedi control. With the Imperial fleet on the Jedi side now, the COnfederation will be forced to surrender to them, and the Jedi coalition can rejoin the Galactic Alliance now with Jacen dead
-Han asks Jag to start an Imperial Mission, to force the Moffs to pay for Allana's death by helping worlds in poverty, Tenel Ka comes in and says she agrees it would be a great service to the memory of Allana
-Daala is appointed the new Chief of State, the war is over, Jaina is healing from injuries
-Han and Leia have adopted "Amelia," Allana in disguise who secretly survived, Tenel Ka thought she'd be safer away from the Hapans

 

Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
brodiew 
Registered: Oct '05
6593_Luke Skywalker
Date Posted: 6/25 10:03am Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
Thank you, Darth-Ghost! That was very helpful.

Zekk disappears. Hmmm...

 

-----signature-----
Challenge me. I need the inspiration.
Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
PhaZe 
Registered: Jun '06
40710_Jacen Solo
Date Posted: 7/6 12:07pm Subject: RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
After finishing Invincible, I have to say I'm extremely upset about the way LotF turned out. I won't repeat what many have said here about the poor plot, character development, and apparent lack of communication between authors, but one of my biggest frustrations was the lack of dialog between some of the major players in the story.

I understand there were a lack of opportunities for dialog between Jacen and various people, but I thought the authors had some occasions to make it happen. No extended dialog between Jacen and Han, very little real dialog between Jacen and Leia, and laughably short discussion between Jacen and Jaina.

For all of the training Jaina did with the mandalorians, almost none of it was seemingly used against Jacen. She simply arrives, catches him off guard some way and beats him with the usual Jedi techniques. I find it sad that a character with some of the most potential is killed off in such a manner. Jacen has been what us for a while now, and I think he deserved better than how the authors wrote him.

Jaina has always been here and there for me. She's been such an arrogant character for a while now, and while I think its understandable that Jacen turned dark, I'd be frustrated if Jaina continues to be this arrogant murderous Jedi with no consequences. She's turned dark before, and the way she killed Jacen was probably the definition of a lack of remorse from a Jedi. Whatever the threat Jacen was, the possibility of redemption was almost certainly there.

I like Ben to an extent, but I'm going to be a little bitter about his character since he had something to do with Jacens downfall so he will never be a favorite. Everything seems to be set up oh so perfectly for Jaina fans however. A Jag and Jaina matchup seems inevitable, and Jag seems to be set up for a dramatic return as well.

I find myself thinking back to some of the NJO events and how much I loved Jacens character, and I have to say the future looks bleak for me. I'm not a huge Jaina fan so I don't want to hear a lot about her unless she goes dark or dies. Ben..couldn't care either way about him. The Big 3...certainly great characters but their time is over. I feel like LotF was a definite sad turning point for the series. Mara and Jacen were great characters and the future seems stale without them.

Again, this is definitely out of bitterness but I'm actually hoping any future novels (after some actual single novels and small trilogies to EXPAND the universe instead of quickly rushing through decades to get us to LEGACY era) to deal with the one Sith. I'm hoping that everyone (big 3 included) is pretty much killed so we can get novel forms of events leading up to the LEGACY comics or we're forced to reboot.

What a sad year for Star Wars for me. The movies are done, the EU future looks bleak, and Lucasarts video game developer isn't working on post ROTJ projects anymore.

 

Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History