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Topic:
The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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ZanderSolo
Registered:
May '07
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Date Posted:
4/14 8:37pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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NelanisGhost posted:
The use of "kewlz" invalidates your opinion.
I did not use "kewlz" i used "Kewl," which i use to distinguish from the word cool, meaning slightly cold.
The More You Know!
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Nobody145
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
4/14 9:19pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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I'm still not sure what Invincible will refer to. I originally thought it meant Luke would be shown to be near invincible, but considering Luke's being sidelined, I doubt it. Caedus is far too stupid to be considered invincible, and... has Jaina done anything notable this series? Then again, Tempest was a bit of an abstract idea (just calling the third LotF novel "trouble brewing" would've been just as descriptive), there wasn't much fury in Fury (more like Sulking, based on Luke's behavior), and... well, the revelations in Revelation were pathetic, since most of them were extremely obvious, even to some of the characters themselves (Jacen being Sith, killing Mara, etc.).
Oh well, just as long as they don't hit us over the head with the actual word invincible unlike what happened with the last novel, with how invincible was mentioned off (and I just hope Naboo isn't brought up again).
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jacenskylo
Registered:
Feb '06
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Date Posted:
4/14 9:32pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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ARC-77 posted:
Ulkesh2 posted:
Jacen's fate should be a blend of Ulic Quel-Droma and the new Battlestar Galactica's Baltar. The Jedi Council should 'strip' Jacen of Midi-Clorian use. Maroon him on a primitive planet out in Wild Space. Meanwhile every vengeful Corellian and Mandalorian can hunt for Jacen's location. To have 'true' justice on the beaten Sith Lord-in-exile. At some point one of these hunters discovers Allana's connection to Jacen. But that may be the story arc of another series of novels/comics. Oh and one other thing Jaina should remove Jacen's hands with a well placed saber. Thus helping to weaken Jacen enough for capture. So when Jacen is on that primitive Wild Space planet he must rely on the charity of the planet's sentient inhabitants. Or go ahead give the guy bionic hands. The idea being that Jacen needs to get back to the basics of life on a farm. Life on a farm did Luke good. It made him less likely to go dark over the pitfalls of moral relativity like Jacen did. Luke's nephew has never really had to live a pauper's life. So my suggestion is not to listen to the blood thirsty adrenline junkies of Star Wars fandom (you know the kind I mean - always wanting bigger and badder fights), but to the whispers of irony, mercy and mythic structure.
I'd be for something similar, but with Jacen a wanderer in the Outer Rim or something, trying to repent through little things and occasionally running into some vengeful Corellians or Mandos, like you said.
Thats where I would like to see the direction of a future series. Amost like Angel trying to redeem himself
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Emperor_Time
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
4/14 10:41pm
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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But Jacen is way eviler than Angel ever was. 
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That Zayne is Shmi's ancestor theory for the win. 
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Zorrixor
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
4/15 2:38am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
4/15 2:38am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Zorrixor
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Thrawn McEwok posted:
1.) Like Darth-Ghost, I'm really worried for Tahiri. She's one of my favourite characters, but her characterization in the previous novel didn't encourage much hope.
I'm feeling the same way. I'd like her to survive to leave a lingering Sith threat but I'm feeling as if she's probably just been turned Sith last minute to give the book an obligatory Sith kill to allow Jacen to live.
Thrawn McEwok posted:
4.) From Team Jaina, to the Jedi Order: is Luke's vision really of Krayt's Empire? It's possible, but we'd have to wait for more details before we can comment...
I've been expecting some heavy One Sith references as they seem to have mainly been Dennings thing, so the vision of a new Sith Empire would make sense in that regard.
Thrawn McEwok posted:
7.) Maybe Jacen will win, after all. Who knows? If he was sane, or even confident and capable, he'd be a much more interesting antagonist. The idea that the bad guys are obviously nuts/misguided - as opposed to theatrical and dangerous - is the most annoying thing about "Legacy of the Force" for me. I hope that it turns out to be a more subtle story than it sometimes appears.
If it wasn't for the the massive doubts I have that DR would have a cliffhanger at the end of their contract I've actually been thinking the same thing. I keep trying to picture watching ROTS without having seen the OT first, as I can't see anyone seeing the plot twist there coming either. It would be interesting, I'll give it that, I just feel the publishing contract forces the conclusion to be final.
Although... in that interview Denning did say he hadn't decided between the happy ending and the unhappy ending... maybe that was code for "it depends if DR are staying or not". 
Thrawn McEwok posted:
and perhaps an explanation for that white-eyed vision Leia saw in Tatooine Ghost and Jacen did in Tempest.
Ohh... I'd forgotten all about that vision having white-eyes... and now we have a character called White Eyes. Curious. In fact, thinking about the vision itself, it was remarkably similar to the one Cade has where he sees Krayt's face form in the clouds.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
4/15 4:53am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Thrawn McEwok posted:
7.) Maybe Jacen will win, after all. Who knows? If he was sane, or even confident and capable, he'd be a much more interesting antagonist. The idea that the bad guys are obviously nuts/misguided - as opposed to theatrical and dangerous - is the most annoying thing about "Legacy of the Force" for me. I hope that it turns out to be a more subtle story than it sometimes appears.
We can only hope.
I remember the series alluding to a villian whose evil and power reminded Luke of Darth Vader. Whatever happened to that?
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Darth_Carl99
Registered:
Feb '08
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Date Posted:
4/15 5:11am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
4/15 5:19am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Darth_Carl99
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First, please pardon my spelling here, i'm writing this from a PC at work on my lunch break.
Second.
I wish people would get over the glass half empty syndrome they have with jacen's power.
I look at it from a Glass half full full veiw.
Specificlly, Jacen has had two seperate battles, (Kuat and Centerpoint), where he came within a knat's whisker of winning the war outright He also sucsesfully put a stop to the war of attrition at Kuat with his attack on the wookies, and nearly eliminated one of the most important members of the confederation, (Fondor), and took effective control of the Remenant at the same time, as well as allready controling the GA. He also nearly got the Hapan's in on his side via blackmail. He nearly took control of the Jedi Academy, thus giving himself ma futere source of force sensetivs for his own sith order, and several dozen Jedi apprentices where kiled in the following battle. Heb also fought a vicous duel with Luke where he for the most part held hs own.
Yes he's failed a whole bunch of times, but the key point is, he hasn't failed because he's done anything WRONG. He's failed due to circumstances and actions by oppossition that where beyond his ability to predict. He hasn't failed because he's actually weak, if he was he wouldn't have even ben in a position to nearly win any of these battles. He lost because his opponnent did unexpected or unpredictable thngs, or simply because our merry band of heroes are BETTER heros than he is a villian. That dosen't make him weak, it just means the heroes are very strong.
All IMHO of course.
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Lord_Riven
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
4/15 5:23am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Emperor_Time posted:
But Jacen is way eviler than Angel ever was.
No way. Angelus was going to summon Acathla.
Back onto topic,
I desperately do not want Jacen to win. Would like the redemption thing, especially if it does develop him as a character in a positive way. Maybe he should also drop the Solo name whilst in exile, hence opening up opportunities post Legacy for unknown Solo's to be running around (another plus in my book).
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Zorrixor
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
4/15 5:34am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
4/15 5:41am (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Zorrixor
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Darth_Carl99 posted:
I wish people would get over the glass half empty syndrome they have with jacen's power.
I look at it from a Glass half full full veiw.
The main trouble I have with looking at it from the glass half full perspective is he's still only been Dark Lord of the Sith, what, a couple of months now? 
I know from a certain point of view you could take that to mean he has in fact been the most devastating Sith Lord ever considering what he's achieved more in two months than most in their whole lives. I just have trouble feeling that strongly about someone who will have lasted maybe three tops. He may be going up against the greatest Jedi the Order has ever known but it just leaves Caedus looking as if he didn't really have a plan for what to do after ousting Omas and Niathal. Its all well and good seizing power, I'm sure Krayt had many opportunities, but its holding onto it that matters.
Its usually a measure of how many trillions you killed, how many planets you destroyed, how many decades your empire lasted. With Caedus its more Six Day War than World War. The length of time shouldn't matter as Alderaan killed more lives in a single shot than some wars managed in years but normally Star Wars always throws us the attitude of "bigger is better" which I think is why its difficult to appreciate Caedus in light of how most Sith Lords are.
I still wish they'd stuck to their original plan and made LOTF cover three years. Just knowing Caedus had fought dozens of other battles in between novels would have made me respect him a whole lot more. Its just depressing that you can count his victories on your fingers. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, its just he feels like a footnote.
"At an end your rule is, and not short enough it was."
Picture the Yoda/Sidious fight but imagine Yoda won. Thats the main issue I have with Caedus. Had Yoda won, Sidious would have been Emperor all of a few hours. 
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
4/15 5:52am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
- Date Edited:
4/15 5:53am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Ulicus
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I hope, if Caedus dies/is defeated in this book, that we at least get an E-Book or a Hyperspace series of shorts that details Caedus delving into the depths of Sith knowledge during this period.
At the moment, if it wasn't for the fact we've been told by the publishers/authors, there would be no real reason to think he was a Sith Lord.
Zorrixor posted:
"At an end your rule is, and not short enough it was."
Picture the Yoda/Sidious fight but imagine Yoda won. Thats the main issue I have with Caedus. Had Yoda won, Sidious would have been Emperor all of a few hours.
Perfect comparison. 
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TIEPilot051999
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
4/15 6:33am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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ZanderSolo posted:
I think it'd be kewl if Jacen won.
How, exactly? Jacen's been responsible for a lot of bad things in this series (starting a war of choice, taking control of the government for his own ends, getting rid of anyone who disagrees with him), and I have long stressed the point that the only way it can be answered is for him to die. Anything less is unacceptable.
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Trepidation
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
4/15 6:38am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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Since this is a Troy Denning book, it seems likely that we can expect an open ended conclusion (allowing for continuation and lots of unanswered questions). In addition, I would expect new characters popping up out of the blue so he has something to pitch in a future series (Welk, Lomi Plo...).
The reason I say this is because I'm still a little miffed about how he threw those two "Dark" characters into "Star by Star" for no real legitimate reason other than to pitch them down the road to get a new gig (my opinion  ...and I hate that crap). I wouldn't be surprised if Denning got in on this series by pushing the plotline based on his portrayal of Leia not wanting children because they would go Dark from "Tatooine Ghost."
Sue me...I'm a cynic and a misanthropist... 
PS: So, who ratted out Han and Leia to the Chiss in "The Swarm War" Mr. Denning? Still waiting....Bueller...Bueller?
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jhc36
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
4/15 6:46am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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yeah i will be really disappointed if caedus dies in this next book. they would have spent almost the entire series just describing his choice to become sith and claim a title and possibly just one to have his twin brat take it away. all in all a total waste of a series if jacen/caedus dies. they had the intention of him dying all along... why couldn't have they revealed he was darth caedus sooner?? spend some time and books while he's a sith lord. why make it so secretive?
i want the jedi order destroyed.
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Ulicus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
4/15 6:46am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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TIEPilot051999 posted:
ZanderSolo posted:
I think it'd be kewl if Jacen won.
How, exactly? Jacen's been responsible for a lot of bad things in this series (starting a war of choice, taking control of the government for his own ends, getting rid of anyone who disagrees with him), and I have long stressed the point that the only way it can be answered is for him to die. Anything less is unacceptable.
Maybe so, but does he have to die so soon?
That's the problem people have.
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DarkLuke14
Registered:
Dec '07
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Date Posted:
4/15 6:58am
Subject:
RE: The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)
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I thought Lomi Plo and Welk died in the Dark Nest Series... 
as for Jacen, he should live, kind of like how Bane lived after he killed 5 Jedi
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